14:00:36 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:00:36 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-irc 14:00:38 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:00:38 Zakim has joined #tt 14:00:40 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:00:40 ok, trackbot 14:00:41 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:00:41 Date: 27 October 2016 14:02:46 Present: Anderas, Glenn, Nigel 14:02:52 s/der/dre 14:02:57 Chair: Nigel 14:03:04 scribeNick: nigel 14:03:28 Regrets: Thierry 14:04:35 Present+ Pierre 14:32:19 nigel: Today here at the BBC, alongside Ericsson, we managed a world first, which was an entire TTML-based live subtitling solution from authoring to audience, using EBU-TT Live, EBU-TT-D and DASH. 14:32:45 group: [discussion about sequence numbering and identification] resulting in proposal 14:33:00 ... to create a TTML extension spec at a later date for sequence processing. 14:33:17 glenn: I'll take the action to close the sequence numbering and identification issueson TTML2 14:33:26 ... and mark them as for TTML.next or something like that. 14:33:40 nigel: Okay, I can't see any reason not to do that; we would need an update to the Charter 14:33:58 ... to create a new Rec track spec. 14:34:11 Topic: This meeting 14:34:48 nigel: Agenda for today is F2F Meeting, IMSC, TTML. Any other business? 14:36:26 group: No other business. 14:36:30 Topic: F2F Meeting. 14:36:40 glenn: Will there be any WebVTT topics on the agenda for the F2F? 14:36:48 nigel: I'll check back with David on that. 14:37:13 action-482? 14:37:13 action-482 -- Nigel Megitt to Propose 12 and 13 jan to ttwg for a f2f meeting in london -- due 2016-10-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:37:13 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/482 14:37:22 close action-482 14:37:22 Closed action-482. 14:37:25 action-483? 14:37:25 action-483 -- Thierry Michel to Create a template wiki page for the f2f details -- due 2016-10-27 -- CLOSED 14:37:25 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/483 14:37:53 nigel: In case anyone has the original wiki page bookmarked please update your bookmark 14:38:07 ... to http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2017 - the year was wrong originally. 14:38:34 Topic: IMSC 14:38:38 action-479? 14:38:39 action-479 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Refactor the imsc repository in preparation for future versions of imsc. -- due 2016-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:38:39 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/479 14:39:04 Pierre: I don't think I'm waiting on anyone for that. 14:39:30 action-484? 14:39:30 action-484 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft a response liaison to dvb thanking them for incoming and requesting more details re timeline -- due 2016-10-27 -- OPEN 14:39:30 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/484 14:39:52 Pierre: I'm working on my proposal for that liaison to DVB. 14:40:15 nigel: Is there anything else to cover on IMSC? 14:40:41 Pierre: No, but I'm working towards a concrete plan for discussion in the F2F, as a good arbitrary milestone. The timing seems right. 14:40:44 nigel: Yes it does. 14:41:08 Pierre: As part of the plan we have to figure out the sequence of events to keep implementers 14:41:28 ... and other organisations in the communications so they can review and have their say. 14:41:37 s/communications/loop 14:41:50 Pierre: I think having a good plan by mid January makes sense for where we're going. 14:42:12 Topic: TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc 14:42:56 nigel: There's been a lot of activity this week. What's most important? 14:43:16 glenn: On the font size issue ( https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200 ) I think there 14:44:07 ... was a proposal to make concrete that relative value calculations are in relation to 14:44:39 ... computed values, by improving the language. Also to improve the language around 14:44:48 ... relative value resolution in the style processing sections. 14:45:12 nigel: I would also like to add the surprise result examples that I constructed. 14:45:14 glenn: I agree. 14:52:07 glenn: Some of this debate led back to a comment in TTML1 that I think we should now 14:52:52 ... make normative, and take it out of the note. The last note in ttp:cellResolution is where this 14:53:03 ... is elaborated. We might also want to make a statement under tts:fontSize. 14:54:20 nigel: So the relative value discussion is to ensure that computed values can be expressed 14:54:25 ... in terms of rw and rh? 14:54:36 glenn: Yes, correct, I'll add that as a note to the issue 200. 14:58:02 ... posted as https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200#issuecomment-256665979 14:58:30 ... By the way I think of em as another way of writing % basically. 14:58:42 nigel: In the case of anamorphic scaling you would still say that em is always related to 14:58:45 ... the height, right? 14:59:15 glenn: Yes, if you use em in the horizontal part of a two part font size that refers to the height 14:59:20 ... of the font never the width. 15:00:09 atai has left #tt 15:00:38 nigel: We haven't discussed use of rw and rh as measures for fontSize. I don't think it 15:00:51 ... causes any particular difficulties but we can now make the font height proportional to 15:00:58 ... the width of the root container region. Just noting it. 15:01:01 glenn: I agree. 15:01:46 nigel: I think that concludes on issue 200. Is there anything else we can discuss to assist 15:01:50 ... with your editing work Glenn? 15:02:06 Glenn: At the moment I'm processing issues as quickly as I can, so if anyone has any 15:03:03 ... questions on technical issues to raise then please do so. I plan to work initially on 15:03:21 ... syntactical changes and then on semantic definitions. 15:04:33 ... I haven't forgotten about Audio Description by the way Nigel. 15:06:26 nigel: And I haven't forgotten about examples. Perhaps I'll do tts:textShadow next. 15:06:55 Glenn: That would be a good one. 15:07:08 ... I have not yet dealt with the background area merging, which I think is an issue on 15:07:26 ... tts:border with . Have you proposed some syntax for this Nigel? 15:07:43 nigel: I did not think that syntax was required. 15:07:51 Glenn: I would like to see it as a parameter on border-radii. 15:08:18 Pierre: The proposal is really aesthetically pleasing. Can it be implemented in CSS? 15:08:52 Glenn: The web platform supports SVG so you can do anything that TTML asks for. 15:09:09 Pierre: I'm sure you've been following this - SVG is not supported uniformly across all browsers. 15:09:26 Glenn: The core SVG for TTML rendering is supported fairly uniformly across all browsers. 15:12:26 Pierre: [expresses desire to constrain features to what can be supported on the web platform in CSS] 15:12:43 Glenn: [argues that this is not a scope limit for us] 15:15:24 Pierre: The SVG point sounds like it answers my question: it is implementable in SVG. 15:15:37 Glenn: Yes. I try to rely only on a subset of SVG 1.0 not even any later versions. 15:19:13 Pierre: OK. [discussion of this being a feature of TTPE and testing] 15:21:43 Pierre: So should all the presentation semantics be implementable in SVG 1.0? 15:21:46 Glenn: Yes. 15:22:00 Nigel: There's one definite exception, which is the reference to the Web Audio spec; the 15:22:12 ... Chair of the Web Audio Group has told me that they are expecting to move to CR before 15:22:26 ... us on TTML2. Do we also depend on SMIL for continuous animations in SMIL? 15:22:44 Glenn: Actually no since SVG 1.0 has animation semantics that are based on but not 15:22:47 ... dependent on SMIL. 15:23:21 Glenn: I don't see a problem with a guideline for the group being that we should avoid 15:23:33 ... defining functionality in TTML that is known to be impossible or impractical to render 15:23:50 ... using SVG when we are talking about visual presentation. 15:24:16 Pierre: I think that's a good place to start. 15:24:30 Glenn: Profiles might make decisions based on stricter guidelines. 15:24:33 Pierre: Right. 15:25:29 Nigel: I did have a look at the recently merged PRs and add my review comments, all positive 15:25:44 ... if I recall correctly. I would encourage everyone to do similarly, and please add positive 15:26:21 ... comments as well as negative ones. 15:26:44 Glenn: By the way on https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/105 that you reopened Nigel 15:26:55 ... I agree that we need to handle smpte discontinuous so I will add something for that. 15:27:08 Nigel: Great, thank you. 15:28:00 Nigel: Having a look at the pulse, I see https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/141 15:28:29 Glenn: The question is if there is a requirement for alt text to be enforced on images. 15:28:39 Pierre: That was a long discussion on IMSC 1 so if you are going to include something 15:28:50 ... similar in TTML2 then reuse the same text. 15:28:57 Glenn: I probably would not make it a Shall. 15:29:01 Pierre: It does not say that today. 15:29:10 Glenn: Okay I have no problem with making it a recommendation. 15:31:17 ... A quick question: in TTML2 we have both foreground and background images. Can we 15:31:35 ... safely assume that any use of background image in SMPTE-TT or IMSC 1 is as a foreground 15:31:47 ... image with no additional information presented in front? 15:31:55 Pierre: Yes, certainly in IMSC 1. 15:33:00 ... I would recommend not putting information in images that might require some kind of 15:33:04 ... video description. 15:38:19 nigel: I would be careful to ensure that if there is a need to use any textual description for 15:38:33 ... an image, for example for translating into a braille display or some other accessible 15:38:46 ... technology, then we do not prevent that. 15:39:00 nigel: We're at the end of today's meeting. Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting] 15:39:04 rrsagent, make minutes 15:39:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:45:13 s/issueson/issues on 15:48:45 rrsagent, make minutes 15:48:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:50:18 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:50:20 rrsagent, make minutes 15:50:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:21:51 Zakim has left #tt