13:57:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwbp
13:57:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-irc
13:57:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdwbp
13:57:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
13:57:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:57:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:57:56 <trackbot> Date: 26 October 2016
13:58:23 <Linda> present+ Linda
13:59:06 <Linda> regrets+ Jeremy, Byron, Clemens, Ed, Kerry, Payam
13:59:28 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ Bart
13:59:52 <ScottSimmons> ScottSimmons has joined #sdwbp
14:00:04 <Linda> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:36 <frans> present+ frans
14:02:01 <Linda> Hi frans, do you have audio?
14:02:08 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
14:02:29 <frans> I will have audio soon, I hope
14:02:34 <Linda> ok
14:03:15 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdwbp
14:03:32 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
14:03:45 <AndreaPerego> I can scribe.
14:03:52 <AndreaPerego> scribe: AndreaPerego
14:04:01 <AndreaPerego> scribeNick: AndreaPerego
14:04:09 <phila> phila has joined #sdwbp
14:04:10 <Linda> https://www.w3.org/2016/10/12-sdwbp-minutes
14:04:14 <AndreaPerego> topic: Approve last telecom minutes
14:04:24 <AndreaPerego> +1
14:04:26 <Linda> +0 was absent
14:04:31 <frans> It says you where there Linda
14:04:41 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:04:53 <Linda> +1
14:05:01 <frans> You even were scribe
14:05:01 <AndreaPerego> resolution: Last telecon minutes approved
14:05:18 <frans> +0 (really was not there)
14:05:24 <phila> chair: Linda
14:05:32 <Linda> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
14:05:35 <AndreaPerego> topic: Patent call
14:05:48 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20161026
14:05:56 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdwbp
14:05:59 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:06:04 <phila> present+
14:06:09 <AndreaPerego> topic: Spatial vs geospatial scope / outreach to non-geo spatial communities
14:06:14 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:06:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
14:06:18 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
14:06:21 <Linda> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Oct/0099.html
14:06:39 <phila> s/Working Group/BP Sub Group/
14:07:08 <AndreaPerego> Linda: The question is whether we want to be make sure that guidance on non-geo spatial data is provided.
14:07:19 <AndreaPerego> ... this is actually also in the WG name.
14:07:35 <AndreaPerego> ... We have some non-geo UCs.
14:08:03 <AndreaPerego> ... But we don't have non-geo people active in the group. Danger is that we just focus on *geo* spatial data.
14:08:09 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdwbp
14:08:17 <phila> q+ to talk about Erich Bremer et al
14:08:24 <frans> In the charter it says: ¨'Geo' is not the only spatial data. In healthcare, for example, polygons may represent pathology tissue segmentation extractions that can be subjected to spatial analysis. Whilst prioritizing geospatial use cases, in so far as is practical, the WG will take account of the needs of other users of spatial technologies.¨
14:08:32 <AndreaPerego> ... The idea is to try to contact non-geo people to contribute.
14:08:46 <AndreaPerego> ... WDYT?
14:08:48 <frans> q+
14:08:57 <Linda> ack phila
14:08:57 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about Erich Bremer et al
14:09:54 <AndreaPerego> phila: The idea of using "spatial" instead of geo came from a W3C member who has not been active for some time. I can contact him and tell him to speak up.
14:10:13 <AndreaPerego> ... I can also contact other people - and other WG members can do the same.
14:10:29 <AndreaPerego> ... If the contacted people respond, fine, otherwise we move on.
14:10:56 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Narrowing the scope to *geo* spatial is not desirable.
14:10:58 <Linda> ack frans
14:11:29 <ScottSimmons> q+
14:11:31 <joshlieberman> Is "spatial" an issue beyondn more possibilities for CRS?
14:11:50 <AndreaPerego> frans: People doing spatial modelling are not using geo standards - so this is one of the target communities.
14:12:58 <AndreaPerego> ... good to have a scope as large as possible.
14:13:04 <joshlieberman> But should they be using geo standards, many of which are quite general to spatial dimensions?
14:13:23 <AndreaPerego> ... A question to phila: Are there any W3C groups we can outreach.
14:14:09 <joshlieberman> q+
14:14:18 <AndreaPerego> phila: There are some - as the Geolocation API - but they do not seem to be in our target.
14:14:54 <Linda> q?
14:15:18 <AndreaPerego> frans: We can have a chat with the UC contributors, telling them we have a new version of the document, ask them whether it fullfills their need. But besides that, difficult to say how to accomplish that.
14:15:31 <Linda> ack ScottSimmons
14:15:34 <joshlieberman> Question: are we considering real world but not geocentric space, or also considering conceptual spaces (e.g. compositional space)?
14:16:20 <AndreaPerego> ScottSimmons: Sometimes data consumers use geospatial data without recognising they are spatials (e.g., building data).
14:16:51 <Linda> q?
14:16:53 <AndreaPerego> ... I'll be meeting in 2 weeks with [missed] and I can try and see if they can provide feedback.
14:17:04 <Linda> buildingsmart international
14:17:10 <Linda> ack joshlieberman
14:17:18 <AndreaPerego> frans: It would be definitely interesting to have them involved.
14:17:23 <frans> http://www.buildingsmart-tech.org/future/linked-data/linked-data
14:17:33 <AndreaPerego> s/[missed]/buildingsmart international/
14:18:41 <frans> q+
14:20:54 <AndreaPerego> joshlieberman: Anyone working on engineering diagrams can benefit from a general geo framework. Anyway, while working at the conceptual level, the critical bit is defining the relevant subset of a general framework, providing a different context to the defined concepts (e.g., CRSs),
14:21:41 <Linda> q?
14:21:45 <Linda> ack frans
14:22:01 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Can you check the CRS part of the BP and see which changes need to be done?
14:22:06 <AndreaPerego> joshlieberman: [agrees]
14:22:52 <AndreaPerego> frans: Another case is base data, where they also are trying to model geo stuff as geometries.
14:23:34 <AndreaPerego> ... So, also here the input from the geo perspective would be useful.
14:23:39 <joshlieberman> AndreaPerego - note is reasonably accurate. Thanks.
14:24:24 <phila> phila: Yes, SVG has geometry but it's the geometry of the display screen.
14:24:40 <AndreaPerego> ... About other W3C groups, some of them they use notions as geometry, and it may be worth to ensure alignment.
14:25:04 <Linda> q?
14:25:08 <AndreaPerego> Linda: [mentioning the SVG group]
14:25:32 <joshlieberman> As I recall, Takagi has been advocating for better CRS support in SVG but hasn't gotten complete traction.
14:25:39 <AndreaPerego> s/from a W3C member/from a W3C member (Eric Bremer)/
14:26:01 <AndreaPerego> topic: Comments from INSPIRE workshop
14:26:13 <AndreaPerego> See thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Oct/0103.html
14:27:47 <AndreaPerego> Linda: We have a new BP version, and the idea is to release new versions on a regular basis.
14:28:08 <AndreaPerego> ... One of the inputs to be taken into account comes from the INSPIRE workshop.
14:29:00 <AndreaPerego> ... Clemens highligheted in the mail below two comments:
14:29:09 <AndreaPerego> ... "Most BP titels are not really 'spatial'. Which other communities have been successful with these practices?" - It would provide substance to the claim that we recommended practices are indeed "best" practices, if we could point not just to specific examples per BP, but point to cases where other communities (than the SDI community) are already following the DWBP principles and have measurably benefited from this."
14:30:15 <AndreaPerego> Linda: [going through the relevant BPs]
14:30:37 <AndreaPerego> ... Their titles don't look specific to spatial data.
14:31:07 <billroberts> billroberts has joined #sdwbp
14:31:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:31:11 <AndreaPerego> ... So, are there BPs in other communities we can re-use / refer to?
14:31:25 <frans> q+
14:31:50 <Linda> q?
14:31:55 <Linda> ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:32:25 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
14:32:28 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: I wanted to comment about the measurable impact of BPs.
14:32:34 <billroberts> sorry I'm late -figured better late than never
14:33:24 <AndreaPerego> ... Actually, this may be difficult to measure - is like measuring the impact of open data.
14:33:27 <Linda> q?
14:33:50 <AndreaPerego> ... Maybe phila can comment on what has been done in the DWBP WG.
14:33:51 <Linda> ack frans
14:34:44 <AndreaPerego> frans: I'm not sure I understand the comment reported by Clemens. It's just about the title? We don't need to repeat "spatial" in the title.
14:35:23 <AndreaPerego> ... About checking BPs outside the geo domain, this should be a job for the DWBP.
14:36:09 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Good point. But I think the main question is whether there's evidence that other communities have been successful with such BPs.
14:36:32 <AndreaPerego> ... Also the DWBP should have such pointers.
14:36:46 <AndreaPerego> frans: So, probably is just a job for the DWBP WG.
14:37:12 <AndreaPerego> ... We can just say that we extend what they did.
14:37:29 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:37:36 <joshlieberman> Is this just a question of inserting "spatial" into the titles in the BP where it is perhaps currently implicit?
14:38:02 <AndreaPerego> q+ to mention that the DWBP is now running a survey to collect evidence for their BPs
14:38:39 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Yes, joshlieberman, it may be just adding "spatial" in the title.
14:39:05 <frans> Would that not be redundant?
14:39:08 <AndreaPerego> joshlieberman: If this is the case, it's just a minor change to be done.
14:39:22 <Linda> q?
14:39:26 <Linda> ack bart
14:40:49 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: I agree with both joshlieberman and frans. Actually, if you look at some BPs, maybe they talk about something general (e.g., use HTTP URIs), but how you do that is in many case domain-dependent.
14:41:30 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Could you please elaborate?
14:41:55 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: [I'm afraid I missed it, Bart]
14:42:10 <frans> It seems we are not clear on what the perceived problem really was
14:42:48 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: frans's comment is spot on: "what are we trying to solve?"
14:43:13 <AndreaPerego> ... Putting a "spatial" tag does not ensure spatial people understand that BP is for them.
14:43:40 <joshlieberman> In the case of BP 12, it is actually substantive to say that we recommend providing spatial search of spatial data. Maybe not in other cases.
14:43:40 <Linda> q?
14:43:45 <Linda> ack andrea
14:43:45 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to mention that the DWBP is now running a survey to collect evidence for their BPs
14:44:29 <frans> AndreaPerego: DWBP are running a survey.
14:44:51 <frans> ... could we do the same?
14:45:34 <frans> ... adding the word ´spatial´ to all titles would be superfluous
14:45:55 <frans> ... perhaps the commenters did not read the document carefully enough
14:46:55 <phila> q+
14:47:00 <frans> Yes, web documents are not read in the same way as one reads a book
14:47:20 <Linda> ack phila
14:47:24 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Yes, but probably it would be good that "how a BP applies to me" be clear even though you start reading in the middle.
14:47:26 <phila> -> http://w3c.br/form-dwbp/ Evidences form
14:47:29 <AndreaPerego> phi
14:47:46 <phila> -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RhMGyG0ZYb73RkteYr39Xqt7f5xi0BUQmSiDqjkHOSA/edit#gid=853876221 evidence spreadhseet
14:47:54 <joshlieberman> Interesting question - will there be links to each individual BP - in which case having "spatial" in the title might improve searchability.
14:48:03 <AndreaPerego> phila: Yes, the DWBP created a complex form, and also a spreadsheet.
14:48:09 <AndreaPerego> ... it's quite complex.
14:48:34 <AndreaPerego> s/a complex/an online/
14:49:32 <AndreaPerego> ... It is worth collecting evidence for the SDW BP, but we have to take into account the time we have (also considering the extension).
14:49:49 <Linda> q?
14:50:18 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:50:22 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Second comment from Clemens:
14:50:25 <AndreaPerego> ... Two additional BPs: a) How to reuse existing infrastructure, easy steps for data providers. b) Queries are important, but unclear how to query distributed data holdings on the web since there are different APIs (SPARQL, etc)." - It is worth checking, if these aspects are covered sufficiently already or if we should add something, for example, additional BPs as proposed
14:50:54 <AndreaPerego> ... Quite interesting to me - we did a lot of work on this in the Geonovum testbed.
14:51:12 <joshlieberman> q+
14:51:13 <Linda> q?
14:51:17 <AndreaPerego> ... Also the second one may be relevant - although not completely clear to me.
14:51:18 <Linda> ack bart
14:51:18 <frans> q+
14:52:22 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: I've shown something like that, and I also wonder we need to have such BP.
14:52:37 <Linda> q?
14:52:40 <Linda> ack josh
14:52:41 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Tend to agree.
14:54:57 <Linda> q?
14:55:02 <Linda> ack frans
14:55:18 <AndreaPerego> joshlieberman: [missed]
14:56:22 <AndreaPerego> frans: Agree that "federated queries" use case can be added.
14:56:43 <AndreaPerego> Linda: Do you have something to contribute on this, BartvanLeeuwen ?
14:56:47 <Linda> q?
14:56:49 <AndreaPerego> BartvanLeeuwen: Need to think about.
14:57:04 <joshlieberman> My response: we can improve wording of existing BP's to emphasize improving SDI interfaces to the Web rather than (immediately) revamping internal infrastructure, as well as to emphasize "standard spatial API's" rathe than just "API's"
14:57:24 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:57:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
14:57:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx linda
14:57:33 <AndreaPerego> s/[missed]/we can improve wording of existing BP's to emphasize improving SDI interfaces to the Web rather than (immediately) revamping internal infrastructure, as well as to emphasize "standard spatial API's" rathe than just "API's"/
14:57:43 <frans> Thanks, have a good day
14:57:46 <joshlieberman> Thanks and bye.
14:57:51 <Linda> RSSAgent, draft minutes
14:57:51 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:57:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
14:57:59 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:57:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
14:58:00 <Linda> thx Phil!
14:58:19 <Linda> bye all
14:58:43 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:58:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego