16:56:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:56:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/20-aria-irc
16:57:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:57:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
16:57:03 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Oct/0054.html
16:57:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
16:57:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:57:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16:57:04 <trackbot> Date: 20 October 2016
16:57:15 <MichaelC> chair: MichaelC
16:57:19 <MichaelC> regrets: Rich
16:57:31 <MichielBijl> present+ MichielBijl
16:57:59 <MichaelC> agenda+ ARIA 1.1 CR Exit Criteria https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd
16:58:18 <MichaelC> agenda+ ARIA 2.0 Triage and ARIA 1.2 requirements
16:58:32 <MichaelC> agenda+ Testable Statements (Coordination), test case Authoring, and automation
16:58:40 <MichaelC> agenda+ SVG2 Update from last week
16:58:51 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
17:01:29 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:04:30 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:04:48 <jongund_> jongund_ has joined #aria
17:04:52 <MichaelC> present+ Stefan_Schnabel, Jon_Gunderson
17:05:00 <jongund_> present+ jongund
17:05:04 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
17:06:09 <jongund_> scribe: jongund
17:06:16 <MichaelC> scribe: jongund_
17:06:49 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:06:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ARIA 1.1 CR Exit Criteria https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd" taken up [from MichaelC]
17:06:53 <jongund_> MC: Any additions to the agenda
17:07:19 <jongund_> MC: Look at the l ink to exit criteria
17:07:31 <jongund_> MC: Much like we have looked at before with ARIA 1.0
17:07:45 <jongund_> MC: I picked some initial dates
17:08:11 <jongund_> MC: 13 January 2017 is the earliest date to exit
17:08:33 <jongund_> MC: Roughly 2 months of working time for testing
17:09:00 <jongund_> MC: We need to formally ask for implementation
17:10:00 <clown> clown has joined #aria
17:11:00 <jongund_> MC: How risky
17:11:57 <jongund_> JD: I plan to build a ATTA for OS X
17:12:13 <jongund_> JG: I am pretty committed to MSAA+IAccessibl2
17:12:35 <jongund_> JD: I am close to being done
17:12:43 <jongund_> MC: How about OS X
17:12:56 <jongund_> JD: I have not started, but I am working with Apple on it
17:13:22 <jongund_> JD: I will need the initial getting started stuff
17:13:46 <jongund_> JD: I talked to JC at TPAC and he siad it could be done and he would help
17:14:07 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/project ARIA Project Plan
17:14:12 <jongund_> MC: The proposed timeline seems OK, we can be later if it does not work out
17:14:17 <ShaneM> what interface does Chrome use on OSX for a11y?
17:14:27 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:14:31 <jongund_> MC: The plan is to go to proposed recommendation in February
17:16:00 <jongund_> MC: The features that are at risk, a normative reference to the KeyBoard Event spec, and it is not at recommendation, then the document will change to be a recommendation, rather a requirement
17:16:07 <ShaneM> I think that is fine...
17:16:27 <jongund_> JG: There is not much that can be done right?
17:16:42 <jongund_> MC: That is all I have to say about the exit criteria
17:16:51 <jongund_> MC: I will give it another review
17:17:19 <jongund_> JS: There is one other thing, JC has raised an issue of a must statement for aria-roledescription
17:17:49 <jongund_> MC: I need to make a satement that all issues have been dealt with
17:18:20 <jongund_> JS: I think he +1 the current
17:18:30 <jongund_> MC: When did he submit the commit
17:18:34 <clown> issue-1048?
17:18:35 <trackbot> issue-1048 -- roledescription usage should not be limited to elements with defined ARIA roles -- raised
17:18:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1048
17:18:40 <jongund_> JS: Issue 1048
17:18:47 <jongund_> JS: Raised it yesterday
17:19:02 <jongund_> MC: It is after vote to go to CR
17:19:18 <jongund_> JS: But it is against the CORE-AM
17:19:36 <jongund_> MC: He voted +1 on going to CR
17:19:43 <ShaneM> Did you read the issue?  It makes some sense.
17:20:26 <jongund_> MC: He voted to go to CR prior to raising this issue
17:20:49 <jongund_> MC: May need to speak to the director, I don't think we want to hold it up
17:22:06 <jongund_> MC: If we want to take up this issue a minimum of two weeks and will increase the scrutiny of the group
17:22:52 <jongund_> MC: We can put an at risk statement, we can put it against CORE-AMM and then if is not implemented have it also change the spec
17:23:03 <jongund_> JS: He wants it removed
17:23:17 <jongund_> JS: He might be ok to make it a should
17:23:25 <jongund_> MC: It is a process issue
17:23:42 <jongund_> MC: It will take time and then another directors meeting
17:24:02 <jongund_> JG: Make it at rick
17:24:25 <jongund_> MC: Shane says it is worthwile issue
17:24:34 <jongund_> MC: Rich should be
17:25:11 <jongund_> MC: If I send a transition request today, it can't publish in October
17:25:51 <jongund_> JG: can't JC lobby other developers to keep it out
17:26:12 <jongund_> MC: We can try it, but it might blow up in our faces
17:26:36 <jongund_> MC: I will add this as an at risk statement
17:26:51 <jongund_> MC: Let's keep the issue clean
17:27:09 <mck> mck has joined #aria
17:27:16 <jongund_> MC: Is there any object with that plane
17:27:19 <jongund_> MC: Is there any object with that plan
17:27:26 <jongund_> JS: Not from me
17:28:05 <jongund_> MC: I sent a message about an at risk related to ekyboard mapping, the option is OK with you MK
17:28:25 <jongund_> MK: You recommended changing it to a should
17:28:34 <jongund_> MC: It is a rule thing
17:28:50 <jongund_> MK: I understand, we can revisit it in 1.2
17:28:53 <jongund_> MC: Yes
17:29:07 <jongund_> MC: We should raise that issue now, or we might forget about it
17:29:20 <MichaelC> issue: revisit normative ref to UI Events KeyboardEvent key Values when it hits rec
17:29:20 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1050 - Revisit normative ref to ui events keyboardevent key values when it hits rec.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1050/edit>.
17:29:59 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:30:35 <jongund_> MC: Anything else about CR?
17:30:51 <jongund_> MC: Ok, I will send out a draft CR announcement
17:31:18 <clown> issue-521
17:31:18 <trackbot> issue-521 -- Expand values for aria-relevant to cover text additions, text removals, text changes, element additions, element removals - ARIA 2.0 -- raised
17:31:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/521
17:31:24 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:31:24 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ARIA 2.0 Triage and ARIA 1.2 requirements" taken up [from MichaelC]
17:31:26 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_2.0_Issue_Triage
17:32:16 <jongund_> MK: It doesn't fit current requirements for 1.2
17:32:41 <jongund_> MK: Remove a button, which I have never done, is that a text removal
17:32:47 <jongund_> MC: Leave at 2.0?
17:33:05 <jongund_> MC: Combobox
17:33:37 <jongund_> MK: I think we are addressing right now, it is an AT implementation and authoring issue
17:33:51 <jongund_> MC: We need to think about what is happening in ARIA
17:34:00 <jongund_> MC: Maybe move to APG product
17:34:16 <jongund_> MK: I thought we could close the issue
17:34:51 <jongund_> MC: Can we move to ARIA APG and then you can close ot
17:35:08 <jongund_> MK: We have the option if there is aproblem to assign it to ARIA 2.0
17:35:13 <clown> issue-720
17:35:13 <trackbot> issue-720 -- Address deprecationg role="presentation" -- raised
17:35:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/720
17:35:28 <jongund_> MC: deprecate ROLE=PRESENTATION, in ARIA 2.0
17:35:39 <jongund_> MC: Objections? none
17:35:49 <clown> issue-721
17:35:49 <trackbot> issue-721 -- Expand aria-level to include values for "auto" and "subsection" -- raised
17:35:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/721
17:36:12 <jongund_> MC: User agent calculates properties
17:36:20 <jongund_> MK: ARIA 2.0
17:36:23 <clown> issue-743
17:36:23 <trackbot> issue-743 -- Provide author defined description of state and property information -- raised
17:36:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/743
17:36:48 <jongund_> MC: Author defined state and property
17:36:53 <jongund_> MC: Leave this
17:36:55 <clown> issue-1734
17:36:55 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-1734 does not exist.
17:37:07 <jongund_> MC: Should spinbutton be a composite role
17:37:08 <clown> issue—1074
17:37:11 <jongund_> MK: We did that
17:37:16 <clown> issue-1074
17:37:16 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-1074 does not exist.
17:37:18 <jongund_> MC: We discussed that
17:37:29 <jongund_> MC: It is listed so we can close this issue
17:37:30 <MichaelC> close issue-1034
17:37:30 <trackbot> Closed issue-1034.
17:38:19 <jongund_> MC: New drag and drop features
17:38:39 <jongund_> MC: We will want to revisit in ARIA 2.0
17:38:53 <jongund_> MC: Use of ARIA in all W3C Specs
17:39:29 <jongund_> MC: I don't think this is an ARIA product
17:39:44 <jongund_> MC: It would be in ReSpec
17:40:03 <jongund_> MC: Should we ask APA to take charge of this
17:40:07 <jongund_> SC: Yes
17:40:10 <ShaneM> it would need to be in bikeshed too
17:40:20 <jongund_> MK: It does not fit the charter of this group
17:40:54 <MichaelC> issue-668: Move to APA http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/issues/1001
17:40:54 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-668 Consider if the w3c spec format needs to be updated e.g., to use h1 for sections, after some aria roles like title introduced.
17:40:59 <MichaelC> close issue-668
17:40:59 <trackbot> Closed issue-668.
17:41:08 <jongund_> MC: Closed with a note
17:41:13 <ShaneM> that's awesome!
17:41:39 <jongund_> MK: We have walked through every issue
17:41:42 <ShaneM> can we talk about testing for a minute then?
17:41:46 <jongund_> MC: Every issue for 1.1
17:41:53 <jongund_> MC: Testing
17:41:55 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:41:55 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Testable Statements (Coordination), test case Authoring, and automation" taken up [from MichaelC]
17:42:15 <jongund_> SC: We have many specs under the ARIA collection
17:42:38 <jongund_> SC: Web Platform Test (WPT) maps to the short names of specs
17:42:55 <jongund_> SC: We are working to put the ARIA 1.0 test in
17:43:23 <jongund_> SC: Other specs like SVG have there own aria tests
17:43:39 <jongund_> SC: We want to group test results by CR
17:44:06 <jongund_> MC: The actual short name is wai-aria-1.1
17:44:14 <jongund_> SC: Really
17:44:32 <jongund_> MC: We may have a short name without the version like wai-aria
17:44:41 <jongund_> SC: Thank you, I will fix that
17:45:13 <jongund_> SC: It is just convention
17:45:31 <jongund_> MC: I have not created wai-aria-1.0, I will do that
17:45:40 <jongund_> SC: That should be donw
17:45:53 <jongund_> SC: SVG aria implementation
17:46:07 <jongund_> SC: This is the svg-aam-1.0
17:46:18 <jongund_> MC: svg-aam-1.0
17:46:40 <jongund_> SC: Anyone have an opinion on the version being in the directory names
17:46:46 <MichielBijl> +1 to what other specs do
17:46:49 <jongund_> MK: We should do what the other specs do
17:47:19 <jongund_> MC: If it is reasonable to have version sub directories
17:47:38 <jongund_> SC: One of the WPT is dealing with is META data for sub testing
17:47:53 <jongund_> SC: Sub directories are one way to deal with this
17:48:05 <jongund_> MK: The recent issues like has-popup
17:48:38 <jongund_> SC: Your right, the people involved have not seen this issue before
17:49:03 <jongund_> SC: Thank you for your comments
17:49:10 <jongund_> MC: Any other issues on testing
17:49:12 <clown> q?
17:49:41 <jongund_> SC: I am putting in real results from JD testing
17:49:48 <jongund_> MC: We are done on testable statements
17:49:53 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:49:53 <Zakim> agendum 4. "SVG2 Update from last week" taken up [from MichaelC]
17:49:57 <jongund_> MC: SVG2 update?
17:50:26 <jongund_> MC: SVG is putting in a charter for review, and will can continue to work on SVG
17:51:01 <jongund_> MC: Any other agenda items for today?
17:51:11 <jongund_> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:51:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/20-aria-minutes.html jongund_
18:08:55 <MichaelC> trackbot, end meeting
18:08:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:08:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MichielBijl, MichaelC, Joanmarie_Diggs, Stefan_Schnabel, Jon_Gunderson, jongund, ShaneM, Joseph_Scheuhammer, matt_king
18:09:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:09:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/20-aria-minutes.html trackbot
18:09:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:09:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items