19:54:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:54:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-irc
19:54:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:54:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:54:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
19:54:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:54:56 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2016
19:55:02 <kerry> kerry has joined #sdw
19:55:30 <eparsons> Present+ eparsons
19:56:00 <phila> regrets+ Rachel, Lars, SimonCox, Clemens, Frans, Payam, Danh, Jon
19:57:13 <phila> present+
19:57:23 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:57:33 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
19:57:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-minutes.html phila
19:57:37 <kerry> chair: kerry
19:57:38 <phila> chair: Kerry
19:57:49 <phila> scribe: phila
19:57:53 <phila> scribeNick: phila
19:58:41 <ScottSimmons> ScottSimmons has joined #sdw
19:59:24 <phila> present+ Kerry
19:59:32 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
19:59:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-minutes.html phila
19:59:44 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
20:00:24 <roba> roba has joined #sdw
20:00:41 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
20:00:44 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #sdw
20:02:08 <phila> Topic: Last week's minutes
20:02:09 <roba> present+ roba
20:02:14 <kerry> http://www.w3.org/2016/10/05-sdw-minutes.html
20:02:22 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
20:02:23 <kerry> present+ kerry
20:02:24 <phila> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/10/05-sdw-minutes.html
20:02:27 <eparsons> Not there sorry
20:02:27 <kerry> +1
20:02:28 <billroberts> billroberts has joined #sdw
20:02:35 <phila> +1
20:02:42 <ScottSimmons> +0
20:02:46 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdw
20:02:48 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
20:02:54 <joshlieberman> present+ me
20:02:57 <roba> +0
20:03:12 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:03:14 <billroberts> present+
20:04:10 <joshlieberman> ^me^joshlieberman
20:04:14 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
20:04:24 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2016/10/05-sdw-minutes.html
20:04:28 <jtandy> +1
20:04:32 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/10/05-sdw-minutes.html
20:04:36 <billroberts> 0 - missed last call
20:04:36 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:04:44 <phila> s/present+ me/present+ joshlieberman /
20:04:54 <phila> Topic: Patent Call
20:04:59 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:05:02 <joshlieberman> +1
20:05:04 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call Patent Call
20:05:31 <phila> agenda: www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161019
20:06:05 <phila> Topic: Change of season
20:06:09 <ChrisLittle> ChrisLittle has joined #Sdw
20:06:17 <phila> kerry: Spring in the south, autumn in the north
20:06:33 <ChrisLittle> Present+ ChrisLittle
20:06:54 <phila> kerry: This willbe the consistent plenary time as defined by UTC
20:07:06 <phila> Topic: UCR next publication
20:07:07 <kerry> topic: Vote for next PWD of Use Cases and Requirements http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html
20:09:25 <phila> kerry: Please have a look at the UCR http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html
20:10:08 <phila> kerry: Any comments? I don't think there have been any changes for a while
20:10:18 <phila> ... We don't have Frans here
20:10:36 <phila> ... But it was brought to everyone's attention 2 weeks ago and Frans has made it clear that he's happy.
20:10:56 <phila> ChrisLittle: I did pass some comments to Frans and he has incorpoirated them
20:11:05 <phila> ... They w ere minimal typos etc.
20:11:17 <phila> jtandy: Thanks to Frans for excellent work!
20:11:21 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:11:25 <phila> eparsons: here here
20:11:25 <kerry> +1
20:11:29 <joshlieberman> +!
20:11:33 <joshlieberman> +1
20:11:37 <ChrisLittle> +1 to Frans
20:11:52 <phila> RESOLUTION: Vote of thanks for Frans
20:11:57 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:11:59 <ChrisLittle> +1
20:12:05 <eparsons> +1
20:12:06 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:12:07 <jtandy> +1
20:12:11 <ScottSimmons> +1
20:12:30 <kerry> +1
20:12:35 <phila> PROPOSED: That the current editors' draft of the UCR be published as a new Note/Discussion paper, noting that we believe this will be the last iteration of this document
20:12:47 <phila> PROPOSED: That the current editors' draft of the UCR be published as a new Note/Discussion paper, noting that we believe this will be the last iteration of this document http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html
20:12:51 <roba> +1
20:12:53 <eparsons> +1
20:12:54 <ChrisLittle> +1
20:12:54 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:12:56 <joshlieberman> +1
20:12:56 <kerry> +1
20:12:57 <ScottSimmons> +1
20:12:58 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:13:06 <billroberts> +1
20:13:11 <jtandy> +1
20:13:19 <jtandy> =1
20:13:22 <jtandy> +1
20:13:39 <phila> RESOLUTION: That the current editors' draft of the UCR be published as a new Note/Discussion paper, noting that we believe this will be the last iteration of this document http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html
20:13:47 <kerry> cheer!
20:14:18 <phila> phila: Just checking, this now becomes R2
20:14:33 <phila> ScottSimmons: Confirms that it the next one in the sequence
20:15:13 <ScottSimmons> confirmed that R2 is the next one in the sequence
20:15:15 <jtandy> q+
20:15:37 <kerry> q?
20:16:24 <kerry> ack jtandy
20:16:38 <kerry> q?
20:16:59 <phila> jtandy: I would be keen to make sure that someone who put effort in for early drafts is still credited
20:17:05 <phila> phila: +1 That will happen.
20:17:10 <jtandy> +1
20:17:24 <phila> ... My suggestion is to say Alejandro Llaves, formerly of UPM (early drafts)
20:17:42 <jtandy> +!
20:17:48 <phila> Topic: BP Next publication
20:17:48 <kerry> topic: vote for next PWD of Best Practices http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/
20:18:12 <eparsons> Kudos to the editors !
20:18:16 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:18:18 <phila> kerry: Thanks the editors for all the work to get to this stage. I believe AndreaPerego had a comment
20:18:19 <kerry> +1
20:18:24 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:18:39 <phila> jtandy: AndreaPerego Put in a suggestion a few days ago and I've only just merged that.
20:18:53 <AndreaPerego> Just an editorial change.
20:18:55 <phila> jtandy: I thought that was editorial only so I added it.
20:19:02 <kerry> q?
20:19:08 <ChrisLittle> +1
20:19:09 <phila> phila: You said that there are some current 404 URLs
20:19:18 <kerry> phila: are there 404 urls? they have to go
20:19:36 <phila> phila: Can't have 404 links from a doc in /TR space
20:19:48 <phila> AndreaPerego: It's code snippets in spatial representation type
20:20:06 <phila> ... But they're in code snippets, not links
20:20:22 <phila> jtandy: So in BP1, you have a code block that isn't an anchor. Just a URL, not a clickable link
20:20:53 <phila> phila: e.g. http://inspire.ec.europa.eu/metadata-codelist/SpatialRepresentationTypeCode/vector
20:21:06 <phila> phila: Asks for status of these
20:21:20 <jtandy>  q+ to note that I've tried to convert to US-en and the glossary wasn't updated
20:21:27 <phila> AndreaPerego: These are ISA code lists, not yet added to the INSPIRE registry. Not yet added but are expected to be
20:21:46 <phila> phila: The note makes that clear
20:21:54 <phila> phila: Sop no problem, thank you
20:22:02 <kerry> q+
20:22:03 <phila> s/Sop/So/
20:22:04 <kerry> q?
20:22:08 <phila> ack j
20:22:08 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to note that I've tried to convert to US-en and the glossary wasn't updated
20:22:09 <kerry> ack jtandy
20:22:10 <AndreaPerego> The note: "The URIs in the example, denoting the spatial representation type, are part of a register yet to be added to the INSPIRE Registry. Therefore, they currently do not resolve.".
20:22:23 <phila> jtandy: First of all.. I have attempted to convert to simplified English
20:22:36 <phila> ... May be some English but feel frtee to make that change and merge
20:22:38 <phila> phila: Ack
20:22:58 <kerry> q?
20:23:20 <phila> jtandy: We hoped to get an update on the glossary. Looks like Bill has been side-tracked
20:23:22 <AndreaPerego> s/ISA code lists/ISO 19115 code lists/
20:23:30 <phila> ... That will be in the next iteration
20:23:33 <billroberts> Yes, sorry on lack of progress on glossary.  I am still happy to do it and will aim to have it ready for the next version
20:23:47 <kerry> q?
20:23:58 <phila> jtandy: Doesn't affect the gestalt of the working draft
20:24:01 <phila> ack k
20:24:03 <kerry> ack kerry
20:24:19 <phila> kerry: Quick comment - I find this new version of ReSpec doesn't always load properly.  Not as stable as the old one
20:24:22 <joshlieberman> +1 same for me
20:24:29 <AndreaPerego> It's the GH rendering, I guess.
20:25:00 <AndreaPerego> s/frtee/free/
20:25:07 <kerry> q?
20:25:24 <phila> phila: Yes, some rendering aspects on GH are a pain with the new stylesheet
20:26:03 <phila> PROPOSED: That the editors draft of the BP doc at w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/ be published by W3C and OGC as the next iteration
20:26:07 <jtandy> +1
20:26:08 <AndreaPerego> +1!
20:26:11 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:26:12 <joshlieberman> +1
20:26:12 <eparsons> +1
20:26:12 <ChrisLittle> +1 but change pratice to practice
20:26:13 <kerry> +1
20:26:19 <billroberts> +1
20:26:25 <roba> the doc is looking much better - less detail and more useful scope!
20:26:27 <roba> +1
20:26:30 <ScottSimmons> +1
20:26:50 <kerry> q?
20:26:53 <joshlieberman> This best pratice extends [DWBP] best practice Descriptive Metadata.
20:27:19 <billroberts> I had to look that up - US uses 'c' for noun and verb
20:27:27 <billroberts> according to interwebs
20:28:16 <phila> RESOLUTION: That the editors draft of the BP doc at w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/ be published by W3C and OGC as the next iteration
20:28:23 <jtandy> thank you all!
20:28:24 <ScottSimmons> * too late - you are on my list now
20:28:30 <eparsons> Yay !!!
20:28:39 <eparsons> q+
20:28:39 <AndreaPerego> lol
20:28:53 <phila> ScottSimmons: Checks that the OGC doc number needs to be appended with R1
20:28:54 <kerry> ack eparsons
20:29:15 <phila> eparsons: Now that we have reached this milestone, how are we going to actively solicit more comments?
20:29:22 <joshlieberman> Press release?
20:29:23 <phila> ... Might be useful to let the world know it's here.
20:29:51 <phila> eparsons: Prob not a press release but we need to get more input
20:30:16 <kerry> q?
20:30:52 <phila> ScottSimmons: We would do a press release because it becomes one of our official docs. Apart from that it becomes a question of mentioning it at events etc that we attend
20:31:00 <kerry> q?
20:31:04 <phila> ... maybe before our next TC
20:31:21 <phila> eparsons: Also ByronCinNZ and I have been talking about getting non geo people involved
20:31:36 <joshlieberman> pose a question to stackoverflow that's addressed by the bp doc...
20:32:24 <kerry> q?
20:32:35 <phila> phila: No press release but homepage news, tweets etc
20:32:57 <phila> RESOLUTION: Vote of thanks to the BP editors for huge amount of work done
20:33:00 <ChrisLittle> +1 !
20:33:01 <kerry> +1
20:33:02 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:33:02 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:33:03 <eparsons> +1
20:33:04 <billroberts> +1
20:33:14 <jtandy> (still more work to do)
20:33:21 <phila> kerry: And Jeremy, you had a plan for regular new releases
20:33:23 <roba> +1
20:33:25 <jtandy> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Oct/0071.html
20:33:29 <phila> jtandy: If we look at ^^
20:33:56 <phila> jtandy: One of the things that got us into the situation of not doing a release for nearly a year was that we wanted to get it close to being finished
20:34:24 <phila> ... So maybe a 4-6 week cycle of sprints might be a good idea. We have identified priorities for the first sprint
20:34:33 <phila> ... Startying with points raised at INSPIRE
20:34:52 <phila> ... The adding a consistent example through the doc. Andrea suggested a call for ideas/example
20:35:20 <phila> ... I think we need to continue to develop section 10 that talks you through how you would make decision wert DWBP anda SDW-BP
20:35:39 <phila> ... And we have 2 BPs that we talked about in depth at TPAC, 7 and 4 (global IDs and indexing)
20:35:49 <AndreaPerego> s/ wert / wrt /
20:35:56 <phila> ... Need to make sure that what we decided in Lisbon makes it into the doc.
20:35:59 <ChrisLittle> S/wert/wrt/
20:36:08 <kerry> q?
20:36:17 <phila> ... Getting us into the time boxing attitude should help.
20:36:18 <kerry> q+
20:36:19 <eparsons> +1 to the idea
20:36:21 <phila> ack kerry
20:36:22 <AndreaPerego> +1 from me to the proposal.
20:36:41 <phila> kerry: I think it's good plan. Prob want to check phil and scott resources for that
20:37:53 <kerry> q?
20:38:02 <joshlieberman> so it was never actually on Pending Docs?
20:38:16 <AndreaPerego> Is this one, phila? https://github.com/w3c/echidna
20:38:33 <kerry> q?
20:38:35 <ScottSimmons> the Best Practices document is NOT r1, rather it is 15-107
20:38:48 <ScottSimmons> Josh - yes, the document was reserved, but never posted!
20:39:34 <phila> Topic: SSN Update
20:39:53 <phila> kerry: We've been working through implications of implementation requirements, now have a plan for how to handle that.
20:40:17 <phila> ... Other big thing to report is that we've invited Armin Haller to chair the SSN sub group meeting
20:40:21 <phila> Topic: Coverages
20:40:34 <phila> billroberts: We had a call last week. There's been decent progress on the docs
20:41:19 <phila> billroberts: Had some encouraging news of potential implementation of CoverageJSON from Met office and Danh. May even be able to move back to Rec Track
20:41:22 <kerry> q+
20:41:23 <phila> q+
20:41:47 <phila> kerry: Minor correction, Danh was talking about RDF Cube implementation, not CovJSON
20:41:52 <phila> ack k
20:41:56 <kerry> q?
20:41:59 <phila> ack p
20:42:02 <kerry> ack phila
20:42:47 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/report CEO-LD Project
20:42:48 <roba> q+
20:43:36 <kerry> ack roba
20:44:09 <kerry> q?
20:44:12 <phila> roba: JUst to correct your correction. I believe Danh was talking about RDF data Cube descriptions of CoverageJSON so actuyally using both
20:44:23 <phila> Topic: Time
20:44:34 <phila> kerry: Chris - any update?
20:44:35 <kerry> q?
20:44:53 <phila> ChrisLittle: There's one of these official calls patent claims
20:45:48 <AndreaPerego> s/actuyally/actually/
20:45:48 <phila> phila: Explains W3C patent call process (analogous with OGC Patent Call)
20:46:13 <phila> kerry: Chairs have some concerns about progress. Wg won't be happy if we can't complete that work
20:46:21 <kerry> q?
20:46:28 <phila> ChrisLittle: I've spoken to our Skunk Works devs and try to do both SSN and Time in a demo
20:46:36 <phila> ... Early next year
20:46:42 <phila> kerry: Excellent.
20:46:49 <phila> ChrisLittle: But we'll need to learn how to do ontologies
20:46:57 <phila> kerry: It's easier for Time than for SSN.
20:47:24 <phila> ... For SSN we hope to be able to use old implementations but for Time, need to look for those old implementations
20:47:32 <joshlieberman> q+
20:47:38 <kerry> q?
20:47:39 <phila> ack joshlieberman
20:48:17 <phila> joshlieberman: This isn't a reference to Time but to SSN. We have a connection to O&M. There's a fairly easy path to implementation evidence by looking for OM evidence
20:48:38 <phila> kerry: I'm interested but I;m not sure it will work given what an implementation needs to show.
20:48:47 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:48:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:49:16 <phila> Topic: INSPIRE conference
20:49:21 <kerry> q?
20:49:31 <AndreaPerego> SDW @ INSPIRE 2016: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SDW_Workshop_@_INSPIRE_2016
20:49:38 <phila> eparsons: Andrea gave us the opportunity to speak at the last day at the Barcelona conference. Got about 40 people in the end
20:49:41 <eparsons> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14HR4tM14FsntP_1ylTn4kw1Y00v3emzRYrpWFLHMo7U/edit?usp=sharing
20:49:45 <phila> ... I presented some slides
20:49:57 <eparsons> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Sep/0274.html
20:50:03 <phila> ... Clemens did a good job of taking minutes while I rambled on
20:50:22 <phila> eparsons: First 10 mins, I put the work in context once again, what LD is, how the Wg was formed.
20:50:40 <phila> ... Then focused on what the INSPIRE community wants (SDI for Europe etc.)
20:51:03 <phila> ... SO one topic was how we can reach out beyond the SDI community.
20:51:17 <phila> ... Topic of the terminology (spatial thing, feature etc.)
20:51:19 <phila> s/SO/So/
20:51:44 <phila> eparsons: Don;='t think we need to redefine our terms, The term feature is OK as a modelling term.
20:52:04 <AndreaPerego> s/Don;='t/Don't/
20:52:10 <phila> ... Majority of the time spent on the 4 topics that Andrea asked us to focus on. BP 7 - HTTP URIs as identifiers
20:52:27 <phila> ... How would we manage the minting of URIs, managing life cycle.
20:52:41 <phila> ... Surprised at how little push back there was.
20:53:07 <phila> ... Likewise, BP 4 (indexing) - audience appreciated that. Dutch cadastre supportive
20:53:20 <phila> ... The notes give you good overview of what happened.
20:53:32 <phila> ... How the search engines operate, what SEO means for geo
20:53:52 <phila> ...BP 8 providing geometries in a usable way - boiled down to encoding and CRSs.
20:54:05 <jtandy> q+ to ask about provision of multiple geometries
20:54:26 <kerry> q?
20:54:26 <phila> ... Acceptance that multiple CRSs prob good, prob boils down to Web Mercator etc.
20:54:42 <kerry> ack jtandy
20:54:42 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask about provision of multiple geometries
20:54:49 <phila> ... A single encoding might be desirable but I said it's not likely to happen this time.
20:55:22 <AndreaPerego> s/boils down to Web Mercator etc./boils down to ETRS89, Web Mercator and national CRSs/
20:55:24 <phila> jtandy: If you're talking about multiple CRSs, one thing we've talked about it giving people multiple representations of the same feature
20:55:40 <phila> eparsons: Same feature in multiple representations
20:56:04 <phila> jtandy: Case one might need point, another case might need polygon but they're the same feature.
20:56:08 <joshlieberman> The polar regions are a good example of absolutely needing different CRS's - Web Mercator just won't do at all.
20:56:15 <phila> eparsons: It's about what encoding and then what CRS do we present
20:56:21 <phila> ... Remodelling didn't come into it.
20:56:36 <phila> eparsons: Spatial Semantics of things - again some interest in one ontology to rule them all.
20:56:46 <phila> ... Most people accecpt this as being a good thing to do.
20:56:55 <phila> ... Some focus on topological relationships
20:57:13 <phila> ... But we also recognise non-topological but still spatial relationships.
20:57:25 <phila> ... Then went through the BPs and asked for priorities
20:57:36 <jtandy> (non-comptutable relationships that don't count as topology?)
20:57:37 <kerry> q?
20:57:39 <AndreaPerego> Many thanks, Ed (& Clemens)!
20:57:41 <phila> ... General agreement but that's prob through lack of prior familiarity
20:57:47 <phila> jtandy: Thanks Ed
20:57:58 <joshlieberman> nearness is a computable but non-topological relation
20:58:01 <roba> no worries
20:58:06 <kerry> q?
20:58:08 <phila> kerry: Any other commentws on that?
20:58:22 <phila> RRSAgent, draft  minutes
20:58:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:58:34 <phila> jtandy: In terms of the docs we've voted to release - timing?
20:58:36 <phila> phila: Tuesday
20:58:38 <kerry> q?
20:58:52 <phila> eparsons: Kudos once again to the editors [Applause]
20:59:12 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
20:59:13 <roba> bye
20:59:18 <billroberts> thanks, bye
20:59:21 <kerry> bye!
20:59:24 <joshlieberman> bye
20:59:25 <eparsons> Goodnight all
20:59:34 <phila> RRSAgent, draft  minutes
20:59:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:59:36 <ChrisLittle> Bye and thanks
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