16:02:49 RRSAgent has joined #dnt 16:02:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-dnt-irc 16:02:51 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:02:51 Zakim has joined #dnt 16:02:53 Zakim, this will be TRACK 16:02:53 ok, trackbot 16:02:54 Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference 16:02:54 Date: 19 October 2016 16:03:12 present+ npdoty 16:03:16 present+ mikeoneill 16:03:23 present+ 16:03:28 ChrisPedigoDCN has joined #dnt 16:03:53 present+ ChrisPedigoDCN 16:04:06 present+ schunter 16:04:18 Topics: 16:04:24 - New Charter - Feedback 16:04:38 - What to best do with the TCS (Option 1, Option 2, ...() 16:04:44 present+ aleecia 16:05:56 scribenick: npdoty 16:06:10 Zakim, who is here? 16:06:10 Present: npdoty, mikeoneill, ChrisPedigoDCN, schunter, aleecia 16:06:12 On IRC I see ChrisPedigoDCN, Zakim, RRSAgent, schunter, npdoty, mikeoneill, jeff, mkwst, adrianba, hadleybeeman, pde, walter, wseltzer, trackbot 16:06:28 present+ jeff 16:06:28 present+ simonkrauss 16:06:29 Simon Kraus 16:06:32 Chris Pedigo 16:06:44 Jeff 16:07:29 Cable Labs 16:07:38 Simon: affiliated with CableLabs, attended previous meetings, wanted to check in 16:08:04 Topic: Summary 16:08:15 vincent_ has joined #dnt 16:08:24 schunter: initially, many participants. group standardized one protocol for user agents to express and sites to respond with how they honor 16:08:32 regrets+ wseltzer 16:08:46 ... another piece Tracking Compliance defines behavior to respond to a Do Not Track signal 16:08:52 regrets+ dsinger 16:09:18 ... process reached agreement, but people not sure if it's too strict or too lax 16:10:05 ... group activated on the prospect of closing the group, in particular in response to new European regulation 16:10:16 ... breakout at TPAC, with implementation interest 16:10:51 ... that's the current status: trying it out, or if it doesn't work, letting go 16:10:56 Topic: Charter 16:11:04 schunter: drafted a charter and sent it around 16:11:17 ... extend a charter for an implementation study, may or may not do spec updates 16:11:26 ... if we see enough value, then we publish a Recommendation 16:11:37 ... if unsurmountable problems, we cease work 16:11:48 ... focus is on the technical piece, over the compliance piece 16:12:50 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2016Oct/att-0025/03-part 16:13:02 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2016Oct/0025.html 16:13:35 thanks npdoty 16:14:47 q+ on "out of scope" 16:15:25 schunter: going through charter differences (see link) 16:16:08 mikeoneill: responded on list, important to note what the changes are 16:16:26 ... expand on the details of the user control aspects and transparency of tracking status resource 16:16:35 schunter: like a feature overview? 16:16:56 q? 16:17:15 aleecia: I think this is fine. are success criteria and exit criteria the same thing? 16:17:34 ... don't want to hit exit criteria but not move forward 16:18:10 schunter: I think it's our decision not to move forward even if we have met requirements, but want to be more confident about utility 16:19:54 jeff: interpret "success criteria" informally, not specific to Recommendation status 16:20:14 ... to reach Rec status, have to go through other steps of the Process document, that defines what it means to get to Rec 16:20:47 ... maybe these are a little redundant 16:21:01 aleecia: frustration that we *could* push it out, but we're not going to 16:21:25 ... so would like clarity about what it takes to get it out into the world 16:22:45 schunter: would be helpful if it could be more conclusive 16:23:36 ... can discuss levels of success now to avoid confusion later 16:24:38 aleecia: concern that not publishing final Recommendation inhibits activity 16:24:42 q+ to discuss the importance of having a bootstrapping strategy 16:25:39 aleecia: much more potential after it gets published [as a Recommendation] than before 16:25:59 ... for example, press or implementer interest 16:26:41 mikeoneill: would matter whether feedback from regulators say it's sufficient for GDPR satisfaction 16:27:01 vincent_: could try to get informal feedback now 16:27:56 schunter: if adoption is likely after Recommendation, then success is to: publish a stable Recommendation informed by EU regulation 16:28:31 Production of stable Recommendation-track specifications that is extended by the minimally required definitions of TCS and is informed by studies of the emerging EU privacy regulations. We studied the emerging EU privacy regulations and documented benefits of the TPE to comply with the emerging EU privacy regulations. 16:28:40 We studied the emerging EU privacy regulations and documented benefits of the TPE to comply with the emerging EU privacy regulations. 16:28:49 Production of stable Recommendation-track specifications that is extended by the minimally required definitions of TCS and is informed by studies of the emerging EU privacy regulations. 16:29:43 Revised version: 16:29:45 Production of stable Recommendation-track specifications that is extended by the minimally required definitions of TCS. 16:30:06 jeff: fine to change the success criteria. if we put our heads down and focus narrowly on Rec, without in parallel working with regulators and implementers, I'd be skeptical of the outcome 16:30:22 ... should be parallel bootstrapping of this work with working with regulators and implementers 16:30:26 The revised TPE will be informed by informed by studies of the emerging EU privacy regulations and other compliance documents. 16:30:36 Bonus: We can demonstrate that TPE can simplify compliance – ideally endorsed by some EU regulators. 16:30:48 ack je 16:30:48 jeff, you wanted to discuss the importance of having a bootstrapping strategy 16:30:59 ... which group (this Working Group, a Community Group, something else) is going to step up to work with regulators? 16:31:30 Revised success criteria 16:31:30 1. Production of stable Recommendation-track specifications that is extended by the minimally required definitions of TCS. 16:31:30 2. The revised TPE will be informed by informed by studies of the emerging EU privacy regulations and other compliance documents. 16:31:31 3. Bonus: We can demonstrate that TPE can simplify compliance – ideally endorsed by some EU regulators. 16:31:37 vincent_: can provide feedback based on how GDPR would be implemented in 2018, will work with Rob 16:32:02 ... Article 29 already provided some feedback on TPE. since we have GDPR text now, should be easier to see how it complies or not 16:32:11 ... regulators are certainly paying attention 16:33:13 jeff: anything you can do to encourage that activity (workshops, etc.) would be useful 16:33:25 vincent_: Do Not Track is being discussed as one solution to being compliant 16:33:38 q? 16:34:01 jeff: charter has a list of dependencies and liaisons, including vague reference to working with external groups like regulators 16:34:26 ... identifying actual groups by name that are doing specific work related to DNT would strengthen the charter 16:34:33 schunter: +1 16:34:43 ... Article 29, or other bodies? 16:35:15 present+ vincent 16:35:39 q? 16:35:51 ack npd 16:35:51 npdoty, you wanted to comment on "out of scope" 16:36:37 Nick: Why is TCS out of scope? 16:36:46 ... don't we want to review feedback to TCS? 16:37:05 @@: I agree 16:37:15 ... we don't want the press to see that we dropped TCS 16:37:19 npdoty: expect activity to focus on TPE, but don't want TCS out of scope when we are currently collecting feedback 16:37:25 Aleecia: +1 to collecting feedback 16:37:30 ... ds agrees 16:37:36 +1 16:37:48 ChrisPedigoDCN: I agree, we are looking at implementation, and wouldn't want to indicate lack of further work on that topic 16:38:24 schunter: note that we are open to different compliance regimes 16:39:04 ... to the extent that we define terms (like "tracking"), does that limit compliance? 16:39:51 schunter: I'll update the paragraph to say that we keep TCS and collect feedback, but not adding it as part of success criteria 16:40:32 q+ 16:40:42 schunter: regarding TCS future, should we change to a Note? or, per dsinger, if there is sufficient interest, we can publish as a Rec 16:40:53 q+ 16:41:05 ack jeff 16:41:32 jeff: relatively short charter period, through August 2017. my guess is that it may be too early to make a decision 16:42:22 ... gather implementation feedback during the year, but may not decide on its future until then 16:42:44 schunter: decouple, wait and see on implementation from Compliance 16:43:54 schunter: what's the policy if a group ends? automatically becomes Notes? 16:44:14 jeff: can remain as a Candidate Recommendation, or can choose to publish as a Note 16:44:58 Nick: We don't need to be that specific about TCS 16:45:10 ... whether in the Charter to say it will be a Note. 16:45:20 ... the group can always decide that in the middle of the charter period. 16:45:52 schunter: consensus is for TCS in maintenance mode, no decision on ultimate status 16:46:25 jeff: nothing negative to say that we're going to gather implementation feedback, that's just the next logical step at this point 16:46:31 [npdoty: +1] 16:46:58 schunter: maintain TCS, but not list it in the success criteria 16:47:16 ... have some ideas about how to write it into the charter 16:47:36 ChrisPedigoDCN: not about making it a Note, but about collecting feedback 16:47:53 schunter: right, remains Candidate Rec while we gather information 16:48:29 schunter: send an update soon, if we're fine, then go through w3c process for charter 16:48:36 timeline? 16:48:44 schunter: re-charter for 1 year, end of 2018 16:48:58 s/end of 2018/end of 2017/ 16:49:01 q? 16:49:12 ack n 16:49:17 anything else? 16:49:27 thanks for joining. next call in 2 weeks 16:49:47 trackbot, end meeting 16:49:47 Zakim, list attendees 16:49:47 As of this point the attendees have been npdoty, mikeoneill, ChrisPedigoDCN, schunter, aleecia, jeff, simonkrauss, vincent 16:49:47 rrsagent, make minutes 16:49:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-dnt-minutes.html jeff 16:49:55 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:49:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/19-dnt-minutes.html trackbot 16:49:56 RRSAgent, bye 16:49:56 I see no action items