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14:56:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
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14:56:46 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:56:46 <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2016
14:56:54 <paulc> present+ paulc
15:00:47 <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:47 <Zakim> Present: paulc
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15:01:57 <jdsmith> present+ jdsmith
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15:02:40 <plh> trackbot, start telcon
15:02:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
15:02:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:02:45 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:02:45 <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2016
15:02:45 <markw> present+ markw
15:02:47 <plh> present+
15:02:56 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2016Oct/0027.html
15:03:27 <plh> scibeNick: plh
15:03:30 <plh> scribeNick: plh
15:03:40 <paulc> Topic: 1.      MSE Proposed Recommendation - AC Review closes on Nov 1
15:03:43 <plh> Paul: AC review for MSE proposed recommendation closes on Nov 1
15:04:18 <plh> Topic: EME timeline
15:04:32 <paulc> Tue Oct 25: Completion of EME test suite and finalization of test results
15:04:47 <plh> Paul: By next week, we're supposed to have the test suite and have the test results.
15:04:55 <plh> ... want to make sure we reach that goal
15:05:03 <plh> ... so that we have to decide the way to go
15:05:06 <paulc> Tue Nov 1: Completion of review of test results to determine features that lack two implementations
15:05:25 <paulc> Tue Nov 8: CfC to publish a revised Candidate Recommendation with features that lack two implementations marked "at risk" (Nov 8-15)
15:05:41 <plh> Topic: Status of test suite
15:05:49 <paulc> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2016Oct/0026.html
15:05:58 <plh> Paul: Jerry, you talked to a lot of folks. where are we?
15:06:27 <plh> Jerry: we had 68 subtests that were failing
15:06:45 <plh> ... 42 were errors handling errors, ie not returned the proper error type
15:06:53 <plh> ... Chrome made some improvements on that
15:07:18 <paulc> See Chris's response: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2016Oct/0034.html
15:07:30 <plh> Plh: classify them as bugs in implementation and move on
15:07:42 <plh> Jerry: should treat them as non-blocking
15:07:52 <plh> Plh: agreed
15:08:12 <plh> Paul: Mozilla is fixing those btw
15:08:59 <plh> David: for Chrome, I'm checking on things on our end. We fixed a bunch of failure in Chrome.
15:09:05 <plh> ... don't retest yet
15:09:17 <plh> ... Firefox nightly should be available for testing
15:09:33 <plh> ... the crashes should be fixed in Chrome
15:10:45 <paulc> Paul: I have asked Chris to confirm when we can re-test Mozilla.
15:11:06 <paulc> Temporary Session: 6 failures
15:11:22 <plh> Jerry: some fixes are in progress
15:11:28 <plh> ... trying to find a clean list
15:12:15 <plh> David: we fixed on temporary thing. key status is fixed.
15:12:47 <plh> ... changing video encryption is a bit undefined in the spec but no need to fix that v1
15:13:05 <plh> Paul: so leaves us with 4 of the temporary
15:13:07 <paulc> 2 of the 6 TS bugs are related Readstate
15:13:17 <paulc> s/Readstate/Readystate/
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15:13:58 <plh> David: re Readystate, implementations aren't straighforward. we're getting things fixed to make sure we have the correct tests
15:14:20 <plh> ... if we get the right people on it, like Philipp J.
15:14:40 <plh> David: 40 is editorial
15:15:14 <plh> ... not sure how to answer #338
15:15:33 <plh> Paul: do we agree there are editorial and non-blocking?
15:16:20 <plh> David: editorial is in normative text. for nonblocking, they are state related. we should fix them.
15:17:11 <plh> Paul: sounds like 2 of temp session bugs are related to readyState
15:17:15 <paulc> New bugs 340 - Editorial
15:17:22 <plh> ... #340 is editorial
15:17:27 <paulc> 338 on Timing and it is not clear how to fix this
15:17:46 <paulc> 339 and 336 are under discussion and directly related to implementations of ReadyState
15:18:09 <plh> Paul: what's the next critical to fix readyState?
15:18:21 <plh> David: getting spec expert point of view
15:19:27 <plh> Jerry: some of the temp tests are edge cases
15:20:14 <plh> ... I'll send an email to follow up on those tests
15:20:40 <plh> ... core temp scenarios are working. we have edge case failures and persistent isn't working
15:21:00 <plh> Paul: Persistent license and usage record
15:21:05 <paulc> Persistent-License Sessions: 11 failures
15:21:32 <plh> Jerry: David indicated that a number of those passing but it would give us one passing implementation
15:22:20 <paulc> See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2016Oct/0034.html for clear statement that Mozilla is:
15:22:23 <paulc> At this time we are not planning on implementing "persistent-usage-record" or "persistent-license" sessions. We won't be trying to make the "Persistent-License Sessions" and "Persistent-Usage-Record" tests pass in the EME v1 time frame.
15:22:40 <plh> ... we're passing on 5 DRM persistent test cases in Chrome now
15:23:14 <plh> Mark: we can build on top of temporary sessions to support the persistent use cases if needed
15:23:37 <plh> Jerry: maybe we can drop those tests?
15:23:48 <plh> Paul: I'd rather document why the tests are edge cases
15:24:15 <plh> Jerry: I think we have a rational to say that the clear key persistent license aren't important.
15:24:32 <plh> Paul: which persistent session will survive, given that they're not implementing
15:24:39 <plh> ... and Microsoft implementation is outdated
15:25:02 <plh> Jerry: I agreed with Ade we would enter bugs related to those tests
15:25:30 <plh> Paul: for persistent license today, what do we have?
15:25:34 <plh> ... we have Chrome
15:25:44 <plh> ... nothing from Mozilla and outdated implementation from Microsoft
15:26:19 <plh> Mark: persistent license isn't implemented in Edge
15:26:24 <plh> Jerry: it is
15:26:32 <plh> Mark: but I don't think you can access it
15:27:03 <plh> Paul: so for persistent license session, we have one implementation, an outdated one, and Mozilla won't do it
15:27:19 <plh> ... some of the 11 tests are working now
15:27:36 <plh> ... we could show Edge's plan to bring up their implementation up-to-date
15:28:04 <plh> Jerry: the difference between persistent and temporary aren't core and fundamental. these are minor variations in the spec
15:28:16 <plh> ... so we have an argument for keeping persistent license in the spec
15:29:07 <plh> David: re persistent license coverage, I don't expect further changes in Chrome. tests are behaving strangely as well.
15:29:26 <plh> Paul: so that would leave us with 5 outstanding failures
15:30:07 <plh> Jerry: for temp license, if Chrome is debugged, we'll be all green for Chrome
15:31:16 <plh> David: for persistent session clearKey, we could make it optional. temp clearkey would still be there
15:31:52 <plh> Paul: persistent usage records?
15:31:59 <paulc> Persistent-Usage-Record:  6 failures
15:32:10 <plh> Jerry: we have no implementation that will pass in our timeframe, unless Mark knows otherwise
15:32:50 <plh> Mark: other than the polyfill one, you're right.
15:32:59 <plh> Jerry: 2 out of 6 pass with polyfill indeed
15:33:26 <plh> Paul so, sounds like we'll have to decide real soon how to handle this feature at risk
15:33:53 <plh> Paul: reality is that we don't implementation experience with that features
15:34:23 <ddorwin> https://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/#implementation-experience
15:34:24 <plh> Mark: depends on what you want to show. we can demonstrate implementability, but not interoperability
15:34:54 <plh> Paul: if we only have polyfill support, is that ok?
15:36:02 <plh> Jerry: MS has an implementation but not conformant
15:36:43 <plh> David: for Google and Mozilla, we're not sure about the feature altogether
15:37:08 <plh> Plh: that would make the Director uncomfortable moving forward with it.
15:37:21 <plh> Mark: we can keep at risk for now
15:38:07 <plh> Jerry: at this point, we probably don't need to republish the CR
15:39:58 <plh> Jerry: there might be a difference between persistent session and persistent usage session
15:40:31 <plh> Mark: we should list what's our criteria for keeping or removing features
15:40:36 <paulc> Other: 3 failures
15:41:08 <plh> Jerry: one is clearKey with multiple keys. one is clearkey with update input. one is DRM with multiple keys.
15:41:18 <plh> ... 2 of them looks like key rotation
15:41:35 <plh> David: Chrome has a limitation. don't think it's an issue
15:42:22 <plh> Jerry: Chrome passes all 3 of those tests
15:42:36 <plh> Paul: what about Edge and Firefox?
15:42:56 <plh> Jerry: Chris didn't give specific
15:43:02 <plh> ... they're working on it
15:43:05 <ddorwin> https://www.w3c-test.org/encrypted-media/drm-mp4-playback-temporary-multikey-sequential.html: assert_false: Should not continue playing whilst waiting for a key expected false got true
15:43:43 <plh> Paul: maybe we could take the clearkey with update input out. but looks like we're ok in the misc category
15:44:03 <plh> Paul: so we're waiting to know when to retest
15:44:13 <plh> ... also waiting for Edge bugs
15:44:31 <plh> ... need to decide what we need to do with the persistent cases
15:44:50 <plh> ... whether we're dealing with intent or problem to implement
15:45:35 <plh> Mark: we still have some problems with the expiration of key state attribute
15:46:36 <plh> David: the expiration is more than expected. other test is strange, might be a chrome bug.
15:46:54 <plh> Mark: worked ok on chrome but don't think it works well on others
15:48:04 <plh> Paul: what are those failures in the summary?
15:48:15 <plh> Jerry: not sure. will have to look back.
15:48:23 <ddorwin> http://w3c.github.io/test-results/encrypted-media/all.html
15:48:31 <ddorwin> shows two expired/expiration tests
15:49:24 <plh> Mark: missing a test for license renewal
15:50:22 <plh> ... for expiration time, we have some clock skewed issues
15:50:49 <plh> David: I'll look at the license renewal test to see how to trigger it
15:51:13 <plh> Jerry: drm-expiration passes in Ch and FF
15:52:06 <plh> Topic: test suite issues and pull requests
15:52:36 <plh> Paul: I think we're good here.
15:52:36 <ddorwin> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/3982
15:52:44 <ddorwin> Test does not match spec.
15:52:49 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Aencrypted-media%20-milestone%3AVNext
15:53:10 <plh> David: we need to fix the test
15:53:16 <plh> Mark: I'll look at it
15:54:28 <paulc> Test suite pull requests: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Apr%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Aencrypted-media
15:55:20 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/3985 is open
15:56:22 <plh> David: Chris needs to reply on 3985
15:57:00 <plh> Mark: shouldn't be a problem to fix up that test
15:57:11 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/3936
15:57:17 <plh> Mark: that's a new test
15:58:01 <plh> Mark: don't remember the implementation status but the test needs review
15:58:46 <plh> David: won't be able to review this week
15:59:08 <plh> Paul: I'll see if Chris can look at it
15:59:48 <plh> Topic: Next steps
16:00:07 <plh> Paul: most important item is to rerun the tests. we'll need a meeting to see where we are
16:00:21 <plh> ... also need to decide if we need a CR or a PR
16:01:15 <plh> .. hoping to make it next week
16:02:09 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:02:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/18-html-media-minutes.html plh
16:02:34 <plh> rrsagent, make logs public-visible
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17:59:03 <plh> rrsagent, bye
17:59:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items