14:59:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/13-mobile-a11y-irc
14:59:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:59:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:59:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:29 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2016
14:59:32 <Kathy> zakim, this will be 6283
14:59:32 <Zakim> ok, Kathy
14:59:51 <Kathy> rrsagent, make log world
14:59:57 <Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
15:00:06 <Kathy> chair: Kathy
15:00:17 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
15:00:25 <Kathy> Regrets+ Kim
15:00:29 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
15:01:47 <laura> laura has joined #mobile-a11y
15:02:09 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:34 <DavidMacDonald> DavidMacDonald has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:46 <DavidMacDonald> test
15:03:56 <DavidMacDonald> Present+ DavidMacDonald
15:05:22 <Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md
15:05:28 <Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md
15:06:16 <chriscm> chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y
15:09:54 <chriscm> Kathy:This deals with things that remap keyboard shortcuts.
15:10:05 <chriscm> Kathy: you could argue the same thing with touch
15:10:38 <chriscm> Detlev: AT traps events and uses them up.
15:11:43 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
15:11:48 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:11:55 <chriscm> Kathy: THere's still a hole in there, but we have this, it's solid, so push it through.
15:12:33 <chriscm> present+ chriscm
15:12:46 <Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m4.md
15:12:51 <DavidMacDonald> Present+DavidMacDonald
15:13:31 <chriscm> Detlev: "Tied to a keyboard" is a little informal.
15:14:59 <jon_avila> q?
15:15:19 <Kathy>  All functionality activated by a keyboard input can be operated when assistive technologies that remap keyboard controls are present.
15:15:31 <chriscm> Detlev+Kathy: editorial comments.
15:16:09 <chriscm> Jon: What can the author do at this time?
15:16:35 <chriscm> Kathy: Don't override keyup/keydown events.
15:18:09 <chriscm> Detlev: There's nothing specifically mobile about it, but it plugs a hole in certain keystrokes can be mapped by assistive technology.
15:18:30 <chriscm> Jon: I understand the need, but we should focus on mobile issues.  We're only gonna get a couple of these in.
15:19:52 <chriscm> Kathy: We're going to be looking at all input type stuff together.  There is some concern about number of Success Criteria, but there are no limits.  Good criteria will be looked at.
15:21:01 <chriscm> Patrick: We could write an assistive technology that breaks this criteria.
15:22:39 <chriscm> Kathy: If you look back at WCAG2.0, conformance and AT, you would have to support this AT then this would apply.
15:22:44 <DavidMacDonald> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-accessibility-support-head
15:23:55 <chriscm> Detlev: WE have an accessibility support provision requirement specifying platform AT.
15:24:30 <chriscm> Kathy: Should we add something saying this only applies to ATs on the "Support list"
15:25:03 <Kathy> This success criteria would apply to the assistive technology that is accessibility supported and remaps the keyboard.
15:25:20 <jon_avila> afk
15:25:51 <Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements
15:26:37 <chriscm> Detlev: All functions available by keyboard are still available by keyboard with AT attached.
15:26:57 <DavidMacDonald> All functions available by touch are still available by keyboard after platform assistive technology that remaps keyboard is turned on.
15:27:01 <Kathy> All functions available by keyboard are still available by keyboard after accessibiltiy supported assistive technology that remaps keyboard is turned on.
15:27:34 <chriscm> David: You'd probably have to say remaps keystrokes.
15:27:58 <Kathy> All functions available by keyboard are still available by keyboard after accessibility supported assistive technology that remaps keystrokes is turned on.
15:29:21 <jon_avila> I am back
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15:29:41 <chriscm> David: If we made our own AT this would break it.
15:29:49 <Alan_Smith> present
15:30:13 <chriscm> Kathy: Not if it's not in your platform support model.  You can pick the AT you spport.
15:30:35 <chriscm> David: How many companies have a support document?
15:30:57 <chriscm> Jon: Most customers don't do full conformance, so they usually do a support statement.
15:33:35 <Kathy> This ensures that all users can operate the functionality when the keyboard is used with the assistive technology.
15:33:49 <chriscm> Kathy: Benefits sections needs to be built up on this.
15:34:08 <Kathy> 1. Turn on the assistive technology that remaps the keyboard 2. Use the keyboard to operate the functions on the page.
15:34:49 <Kathy> 1. Turn on the assistive technology that remaps the keyboard 2. Use the keyboard to operate the functions on the page. 3. Ensure that all functionality can be done.
15:35:02 <chriscm> Kathy: Testability sections, suggestions/changes?
15:37:20 <marcjohlic> Check that #3 is true
15:37:24 <chriscm> Marc: It's actually not easy to test, because you wouldn't know what keyboard strokes would be supported.
15:37:55 <chriscm> Oops Detlev: 10025 E Highland Rd, Howell, MI 48843
15:38:09 <chriscm> Detlev: It's actually not easy to test, because you wouldn't know what keyboard strokes would be supported.
15:38:55 <chriscm> Jon: It makes accessing the application challenging for the user.  There's also pass key through.
15:39:29 <chriscm> David: The difference between this and desktop, is because touch pass through isn't an option.
15:39:50 <Kathy> 1. Determine what functions can be done with the keyboard. 2. Turn on the assistive technology that remaps the keyboard 3. Use the keyboard to operate the functions on the screen.  Check all possible keystrokes and combinations of keystrokes. 4. Check that #3 is true
15:40:04 <chriscm> Detlev: The point is if AT allows you to use these keys, this is automatically passed.
15:41:03 <chriscm> Jon: I don't think it's a huge issue on Android, because the normal keystrokes are sent through to the browser anyway.
15:41:49 <chriscm> Detlev: This success criteria wasn't intended exclusively for Mobile Operating Systems.
15:43:25 <Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m10.md
15:43:27 <chriscm> David: That was at the end when Patrick was trying to make one mega success criteria, it instead ended up split into multiple success criteria.
15:43:34 <chriscm> Kathy: Moving on to M10.
15:46:23 <chriscm> Detlev: Unless the function is essential, if the pointer input draws a line, you can't replace that with a keyboard.
15:46:45 <chriscm> Detlev: If the censor function is required for the functionality, this doesn't apply.
15:47:03 <Kathy> All functionality can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information unless the device sensor is required the activity.
15:47:29 <chriscm> Kathy: "All functionality can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information unless the device sensor is required the activity."
15:48:08 <Kathy>  All functionality can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information unless the device sensor is required for carrying out the function.
15:49:39 <chriscm> Detlev: If an action occurs when you lift the device to your ear, but you can't lift the device, there should be a way to get that functionality otherwise.
15:50:26 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
15:50:51 <jon_avila> alan: is the only means?
15:51:04 <Kathy> unless the device sensor is essential for the function.
15:51:09 <jon_avila> detlev: carry out isn't the right term, essential is right -- essential for function to work
15:51:23 <jon_avila> kw: unless device sensory is essential for function.
15:51:30 <jon_avila> david: is essential and would invalidate activity
15:51:42 <DavidMacDonald> is essential and extending it would invalidate the activity; or ... from 2.2.1
15:51:52 <jon_avila> detlev: and not using it would invalidate the activity
15:52:21 <Kathy> All functionality can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information unless the device sensor is essential for the function and not using it would invalidate the activity.
15:52:36 <jon_avila> detlev: fair enough
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15:54:48 <jon_avila_> scribe: jon_avila
15:55:03 <jon_avila_> IRC stopped working for me, but I am back now
15:55:24 <jon_avila_> detlev: prefer term functionality, too specific to use of content.
15:56:35 <jon_avila_> ja: support using "of the content" as content is broad in WCAG and includes sensory and functionality
15:56:43 <jon_avila_> david: 3.3.3 and many other SC use "of the content".
15:56:50 <Kathy> All functionality of the content can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information unless the device sensor is essential for the function and not using it would invalidate the activity.
15:57:04 <jon_avila_> detlev: not pressing the case so put it in
15:57:23 <jon_avila_> kw: any changes? 3 minutes left
15:57:51 <jon_avila_> kw: hearing no changes, we will propose this, will create pull request
15:58:03 <jon_avila_> david: would be good to move this to our control rather than off of patrick
15:58:38 <jon_avila_> kw: under w3c mobile a11y extension. not sure why I don't have control -- I use to have control.  Perhaps when Shadi made some changes?
15:59:43 <jon_avila_> detlev: had done some editing through pull requests
15:59:52 <jon_avila_> david: patrick does appear to have editing rights
16:00:12 <jon_avila_> kw: m6 is about input agnostic
16:00:20 <jon_avila_> kw: just going down through list
16:00:26 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
16:01:16 <jon_avila_> kw: go through orientation m13 and m6 next call
16:01:39 <jon_avila_> zakim, list attendees
16:01:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, DavidMacDonald, jon_avila, chriscm, marcjohlic
16:01:52 <jon_avila_> present+detlev
16:01:54 <jon_avila_> zakim, list attendees
16:01:54 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, DavidMacDonald, jon_avila, chriscm, marcjohlic, detlev
16:01:59 <Detlev> present+ Detlev
16:02:06 <jon_avila_> present+shadi
16:02:21 <jon_avila_> present+alan
16:02:27 <jon_avila_> zakim, list attendees
16:02:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, DavidMacDonald, jon_avila, chriscm, marcjohlic, detlev, shadi, alan
16:02:36 <jon_avila_> trackbot, end meeting
16:02:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:02:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, DavidMacDonald, jon_avila, chriscm, marcjohlic, detlev, shadi, alan
16:02:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:02:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/13-mobile-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
16:02:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:02:45 <RRSAgent> I see no action items