13:59:04 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:59:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-irc 13:59:06 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:06 Zakim has joined #tt 13:59:08 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:59:08 ok, trackbot 13:59:09 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:59:09 Date: 29 September 2016 14:00:05 Present: Nigel 14:00:08 chair: Nigel 14:00:11 scribeNick: nigel 14:01:43 Present+ Glenn 14:01:54 glenn has joined #tt 14:02:15 Topic: This Meeting 14:03:21 Present+ Pierre 14:05:22 nigel: We have a few topics to cover today: i18n review, IANA registration, next F2F, 14:05:51 ... WebVTT meeting planning, TTML2 Pull Requests etc. 14:06:12 nigel: AOB? 14:06:18 group: No 14:06:35 Topic: Profile Registry 14:06:44 action-477? 14:06:44 action-477 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Progress the update to ttml media type registration with iana -- due 2016-09-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:06:44 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/477 14:06:54 nigel: This is pending review - the IANA page at http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ttml+xml 14:07:04 ... shows the updated media type registration as submitted. 14:07:30 nigel: That's good news, so I think we can close off this piece of work now. Thanks to everyone for their input here. 14:07:36 close action-477 14:07:36 Closed action-477. 14:08:18 nigel: I think we can remove this agenda item from future meetings. 14:08:58 Topic: TTML2 pull requests etc 14:09:40 nigel: r12a has fixed up the TTML2 repo to notify the www-international mailing list when 14:09:52 ... the i18n label is applied to an issue, or when such an issue is closed. 14:12:43 ... I went along to the i18n meeting and gave them an orientation introduction to TTML2. 14:12:58 ... That seemed to be very helpful to them. Dae was there also. He did say that there would 14:13:15 ... be one issue to be raised on TTML2 which if I remember correctly is to do with non-combining 14:13:29 ... glyphs that need to be specifically aligned. I'm not sure of the details. 14:13:58 glenn: There are some such things in Thai but I think Unicode handles them. It would be 14:14:31 ... good to prompt Dae to add that issue. There are also line break issues that I don't believe 14:14:41 ... need any extra handling. 14:14:54 ... That would be true for all the Indic scripts not just Thai. 14:15:02 Present+ Thierry 14:16:15 nigel: I've asked if we need to go back and add the i18n label to already closed issues. 14:17:46 nigel: So they have access to the ED now and are expecting a WD in a month or so for a proper review. 14:18:35 nigel: We have comparison operators in the condition syntax that we may need to be careful with. 14:18:59 glenn: That's a good point, I have to go back to see how I defined that operator function, if it's just on numeric values or also strings. 14:19:02 nigel: I think it's on anything. 14:19:28 glenn: Then we should say something about that for sure. Also to include equality and relational operators. 14:19:53 nigel: r12a has just responded - he doesn't want us to add labels to closed issues. 14:20:40 action-480? 14:20:40 action-480 -- Thierry Michel to Request schedule time for horizontal review of ttml2 -- due 2016-09-26 -- OPEN 14:20:40 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/480 14:21:12 tm has joined #tt 14:21:30 nigel: Thierry, what's the status on this action? 14:21:51 reconnecting hold on ... 14:23:44 thierry: I've done i18n, and have started to look at the security and privacy questionnaire, 14:24:06 ... so I intend to fill that in and send the draft to the WG. 14:24:29 ... There's also WAI, but that has no special questionnaire. i18n is starting a questionnaire. 14:24:34 ... I will provide the links to this group. 14:24:43 ... I'll let you know by tomorrow about those. 14:25:05 ... For WAI we have to go through the regular process which is to ask for review by email, 14:25:20 ... which is to be done. Shall I just send a heads up for the new WD? 14:26:03 nigel: Please send the heads up in advance of the WD in November. 14:26:19 thierry: Okay I will do that, and we can start handling the privacy questionnaire right now. 14:26:31 ... That's new process so we may be first to experience that. 14:26:38 nigel: Thank you! 14:28:10 nigel: Let's move on to pull requests... 14:28:23 glenn: My only requirement on the pull requests is that unless I delegate a task for merging then 14:28:40 ... I will be the one to merge, in case I need to make editorial changes. More significant changes 14:28:53 ... I will make on the appropriate branch for the pull request for review before merging. 14:29:21 nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/184 - I updated this based on some feedback. 14:29:27 ... This is Add ttp:safeCropArea. 14:30:03 nigel: I fixed the validation error and added the parameter to the schema. 14:30:19 ... From my perspective this is good to merge but there are no review comments yet. 14:34:06 glenn: I plan to make some changes there - probably a branch on your branch with a PR to 14:34:13 ... update your branch, to segregate my modifications. 14:34:16 nigel: Sounds like a good idea. 14:34:48 nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/185 Augment use of lwsp in ttp:{content,processor}Profiles (#170). 14:35:01 glenn: I take your comments well on that one - it sounds like we can simplify things there. 14:35:11 ... I need to review the fine points and make sure it doesn't break anything we have right 14:35:22 ... now and achieves the effect I was trying to achieve in the first place. 14:36:14 glenn: On this point, while it's true that white space gets normalized in attributes, the 14:36:29 ... syntax still needs to support a single space character. 14:36:39 nigel: That's my proposal - and to remove leading and trailing whitespace. 14:40:17 glenn: We need to be sensitive to the fact that TTML1 does support LWSP now. 14:40:31 ... At the worst case we could add an informative note that the processing of XML normalized 14:40:46 ... attribute values may limit the type of character that could appear in linear white space. 14:40:50 nigel: Yes, ok. 14:41:05 glenn: I need to go back and look at the abbreviated information set to see if we require the 14:41:21 ... same processing of white space for non-XML formats, in other words do we prescribe that 14:41:33 ... that occurs on constructing the information set. If you're not using XML and you're 14:41:45 ... constructing the information set for e.g. JSON then it won't have the same whitespace 14:41:48 ... normalization. 14:44:02 nigel: I was hoping that we could allow processors to be simplified by applying a single 14:44:15 ... normalization process that results in no leading or trailing spaces and all separators being 14:44:31 ... exactly one #x20 character, but I see that may already not be possible. 14:45:03 glenn: In TTV I'm using escaped character references in test material to insert white spaces 14:45:11 ... like tab, newline, carriage return etc. 14:46:04 glenn: The way we can handle this pull request is to accept it as is and you could file a new 14:46:15 ... issue pointing out that it might be desirable to transition to the new approach you are 14:46:26 ... suggesting if possible, because the current PR satisfies the original issue as described. 14:46:41 nigel: Ok, let's do that. I'll update the PR after this meeting and add an issue. 14:47:49 nigel: The last open pull request for now is https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/177 14:48:22 nigel: I think the action is for Glenn to merge this and raise issues as described on the pull request. 14:48:31 glenn: Yes, I've got that. 14:49:14 nigel: Are there any other issues that anyone else can take? 14:49:34 glenn: There are a variety of editorial notes that say e.g. "add an example" for a new style. 14:49:43 ... If anyone could spend time doing that then it would be very useful. 14:50:15 nigel: Some of those might best be done with TTPE so it would be helpful if someone who 14:50:24 ... is used to that could use it to generate them. 14:50:39 glenn: Yes, it might also be a good homework exercise if someone else could create the 14:50:47 ... example TTML content. 14:51:06 ... I know that Rohit and Dae have looked at this a bit. 14:52:06 nigel: In the i18n meeting they did ask for examples of use cases for the new style attributes, 14:52:30 ... and Dae said he would be able to provide those, so this might be one activity that fulfils 14:52:33 ... two actions. 14:52:49 glenn: There are also other things like padding and border, where it would be useful to have 14:52:58 ... example content that demonstrates those in use, where we are expanding the role. 14:53:07 nigel: Okay I can have a look at that. 14:54:21 Topic: WebVTT review feedback 14:55:48 nigel: Thierry has pushed things forward on this - the proposal is for David to participate 14:56:05 ... in a scheduled TTWG meeting to review the wide review comment status, alongside Simon 14:56:22 ... and Silvia. That will not be until after 20th October, date to be confirmed. 14:56:41 thierry: 20th October was the earliest date to allow for Silvia and David to process the comments 14:56:54 ... in advance, so I hope there will be some kind of tagging of the issues. Then the next goal 14:57:17 ... is to have a TTWG meeting dedicated to this. We have no date agreed for this yet. Either we 14:57:54 ... schedule a specific call, or use a scheduled TTWG meeting. I definitely want people from 14:58:03 ... the TTWG to join - this must not be a CG meeting. 14:58:18 pierre: In IMSC 1 we used a specific tool to track the comments - are we doing that here? 14:58:34 thierry: This was an internal tool that was meant specially for last call, it's pretty convenient 14:58:49 ... to use to track the status of each comment, and then the nice thing about this tool is that 14:59:02 ... it automatically provides the disposition comment. But now that LC does not exist things 14:59:27 ... are less clear what we need to provide now. We just need to show wide review. 15:00:13 pierre: For IMSC 1 we used that comment even though there was no last casll. 15:00:17 s/casll/call 15:00:38 thierry: I do not know which tool will be used. Different repository and issue tracking tools 15:00:42 ... have been used. 15:00:56 pierre: Whatever tool is used the same process needs to happen for WebVTT before we meet. 15:01:06 ... I don't want to meet up without a clear record of the comments and disposition. 15:03:22 nigel: I agree, we need a clear process and documentation that we can understand as the WG. 15:03:37 ... I also would note that there is enough substantive change on the current ED compared to 15:03:54 ... the previous WD that a new WD is needed with a new opportunity for wide review comment. 15:05:05 thierry: I understand the concern - we can put the date on hold and wait until we see the 15:05:19 ... output of this meeting. I am also fine with investing time in tracking this thing with 15:05:29 ... whatever tool we use but I need to have input from the CG at least for what has been 15:05:41 ... done already. I also agree that we need to publish a new WD because there are some very 15:05:57 ... substantive new features like region, CSS etc that need to be reviewed definitely. 15:06:16 Topic: Next F2F 15:06:55 nigel: There's been a request for a F2F and a proposal to hold it at the BBC - I'm happy to host this, 15:07:16 ... and the next step is to pick a suitable date - February 2017 was mentioned. 15:09:44 nigel: Please let me know any specific date requests - I'm not sure what else is planned around that time. 15:10:31 nigel: We're out of time for today so I'll carry that forward to next week. Thanks everyone. [adjoiurns meeting] 15:10:36 rrsagent, make minutes 15:10:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:20:56 s/For IMSC 1 we used that comment even though/For IMSC 1 we used that tool even though 15:21:42 s/... done/thierry: done 15:22:02 rrsagent, make minutes 15:22:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:07:08 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:07:09 rrsagent, make minutes 16:07:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:33:06 Zakim has left #tt