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10:09:48 <ChrisL> present+ Chris Lilley, W3C
10:09:55 <markw> present+ markw
10:09:56 <lrosenth> present+ Leonard Rosenthol, Adobe
10:10:05 <liam> present+ Liam Quin
10:10:08 <Bert> present+ Bert Bos (W3C)
10:10:12 <leaverou> present+ Lea Verou, Invited Expert (CSS WG)
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10:11:42 <MarkVickers> present+
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10:12:31 <liam> ChrisL: there was an HDR breakout last year so the question is, what's changed.
10:12:50 <liam> CSS colour now has wide gamut, higher bit depth, so next obvious thing is higher luminance range
10:13:17 <liam> and how does that relate to the Web, do we want HDR in Web pages? What about photographs? video?
10:13:54 <liam> Some confusion about HDR vs wide gamut
10:14:22 <liam> Maybe we need a document explaining why this is important & a big mass market thing
10:16:18 <liam> someone: interested in video content creation, laptops, mobile, with new display capabilities
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10:16:47 <liam> FrankOlivier: many new devices coming, so we have an HDR-ready compositor in Windows already
10:17:51 <liam> but how do we take all the sRGB content on the Web, over 99% is sRGB, how to blend sRGB content and HDR content
10:19:14 <liam> We're trying to decide, whether to do a dual mode compositor, one mode that assumes gamma 2.2 blending
10:19:27 <liam> lrosenth: we are OK with the gamma but we need a space
10:20:07 <liam> [questions about linear blending]
10:21:19 <liam> [[Frank gives a demo of adjacent colours being blended: the non-linear versions as done by browsers darken the blends]
10:21:48 <ChrisL> math in a non-additive colorspace
10:23:41 <liam> lrosenth: I'm on the board of the ICC, so I reaches out to the author of ICC Max (ng ICC), and we'd like to do joint work going forward
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10:24:57 <liam> we have 3 ftf meetings a year, next in San Diego in November, would welcome participation; devdeloper day beforehand has seminars about ICC Max.
10:25:03 <liam> We also have remote call-in.
10:25:19 <liam> Then there are teleconferences as needed by various working groups
10:25:44 <FrankOlivier> http://www.color.org/iccmax.xalter
10:26:13 <liam> ChrisL: current version of ICC assumes white is white paper, model is that screen is for proofing of print
10:26:50 <lrosenth> ICC DevCon - http://www.color.org/DevCon/devcon2016/index.xalter
10:26:51 <liam> lrosenth: ICC Max was designed to included other media, othe use cases, e.g. video, not just paper
10:27:39 <lrosenth> (and we can arrange “complimentary” tickets for W3C members)
10:27:48 <liam> Bert: if you don't have one of these monitors, what's the fallback?
10:28:04 <liam> someone: you can either provide a separate fallback...
10:28:12 <liam> ChrisL: you could do media queries
10:28:35 <liam> Florian: there's a parallel to that for brightness, there's multiple ways to do it and pick one
10:28:58 <lrosenth> ICCMax reference implementation - https://github.com/InternationalColorConsortium/RefIccMAX
10:30:07 <liam> [discussion of PQ, gamma curves that map from 0..1; new idea was to map to 0..1 with different shape, and map the 0...1 to display device]
10:30:44 <ChrisL> hybrid log-gamma in BT.2100
10:32:44 <liam> dolby: we have an interest in HDR in Dolby Vision, using PQ; as Mark mentioned, displays are becoming more capable
10:33:07 <liam> and Web moving to TV monitors which are more likely to have more colour capability than laptop
10:35:10 <liam> [discussion about bit depth; 10 bit is current; 12-bit may be used in cinema/video]
10:35:34 <liam> ChrisL: trying to move away from 0..255 to 0..1 in CSS colour
10:36:20 <liam> comcast: HDR has gone mainstream in TV, going down to low price points. TV makers often include an HTML 5 environment but most are porting the open souces codebases, which don't have HDR
10:37:01 <liam> There are some TVs that have codebases developers by browser companies, e.g. androidTV and firefoxOS, so likely that HDR will be driven by when it's common in non-HDR devices
10:37:17 <liam> ChrisL: yes, I think this will happen, and there needs to be guidance
10:37:51 <liam> floria: I've been involved in porting Opera to TV, and indeed no deep work is going to happen at the port, has to be upstream
10:37:55 <mikeassenti> Dolby Vision white paper FYI http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision/dolby-vision-white-paper.pdf
10:39:17 <liam> someone: we're looking at many years before tv platforms have anything other than sRGB [for non-4k video?]
10:43:41 <liam> liam: the blocker for the open source stuff right now tends to bt=e the toolkits, where the devs don't have access to calibration, to deep colour displayes etc
10:44:02 <liam> [q. about status of HDR in WebGL]
10:46:04 <liam> lrosenth: none of the common file formats on the Web support HDR today properly
10:47:21 <ChrisL> OpenRaster and JPEG-HDR? PNG at 16bit with extended chunk for transfer curve
10:47:58 <ChrisL> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDRi_(data_format)
10:48:19 <liam> [discussion of JPEG XR, jPEG 2K, other formats ]
10:48:31 <FrankOlivier> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XR
10:48:47 <liam> FrankOlivier: HEIF is another
10:49:16 <FrankOlivier> https://nokiatech.github.io/heif/examples.html
10:49:23 <mikeassenti> JPEG-XT https://jpeg.org/jpegxt/index.html
10:49:30 <FrankOlivier> https://nokiatech.github.io/heif/comparison.html
10:50:14 <liam> FrankOlivier: we'd like to see every p[art of OWP HDR-enabled. Images are the last holdout, comes down to a format/codec problem
10:50:22 <liam> We have to get to better compression
10:51:11 <ChrisL> need for a new, unencumberd, HDR, image format with good compression for delivery
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10:52:48 <liam> Frank: all the main image formats are 20+ years old on the Web, time for a new one!
10:53:03 <liam> but it's astronomically diffcult
10:54:01 <liam> ChrisL: next steps....
10:54:18 <liam> general agreement there needs to be a backgrounds dog giving guidence
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10:54:52 <liam> e.g. doing linear-space compositing
10:55:40 <jihye> @liam i'm just on irc now
10:56:00 <liam> s/dog /document /
10:58:00 <liam> Also a need for a new image format to match today's hardware
10:58:21 <liam> sitting back isn't an option. Maybe spin up a community group
10:59:16 <liam> I'll proposed CGs for both things today
10:59:31 <cpn> I/me Chris Needham (BBC)
10:59:44 <markw> present+ markw, Mark Watson, watsonm@netflix.com
10:59:54 <liam> s/someone/markw/
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11:00:10 <cpn> present+ Chris Needham
11:00:13 <MarkVickers> mark_vickers@comcast.com
11:00:18 <FrankOlivier> FrankOlivier franko@microsoft.com @frankolivier
11:00:26 <mikeassenti> present+ mikeassenti, Mike Assenti, mike.assenti@dolby.com
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11:01:39 <Florian_> present+ Florian
11:01:41 <Florian_> present+ Florian florian@rivoal.net
11:01:58 <lrosenth> lrosenth@adobe.com
11:03:11 <liam> Liam: doc needs to target what Chris refers to as the "lightly interested developer"
11:03:22 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
11:03:29 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
11:03:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/21-hdr-minutes.html ChrisL
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12:10:54 <ChrisL> chair: ChrisL
12:11:06 <ChrisL> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:11:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/21-hdr-minutes.html ChrisL
12:11:27 <ChrisL> meeting: High Dynamic Range (HDR) on the Web
12:11:30 <ChrisL> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:11:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/21-hdr-minutes.html ChrisL
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