14:59:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-irc
14:59:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:59:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:59:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:53 <trackbot> Date: 15 September 2016
14:59:59 <patrick_h_lauke> present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:00:06 <patrick_h_lauke> running a few mins late be right there
15:00:15 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y
15:01:05 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
15:01:21 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:27 <Jatin> Jatin has joined #mobile-a11y
15:04:36 <patrick_h_lauke> M1 -             https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:05:12 <patrick_h_lauke> TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/
15:05:38 <Kim> Agenda + M1 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:05:39 <Kim> Agenda + M3 -  https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m2.md
15:05:41 <Kim> Agenda + Next Steps – next week no regular meeting due to TPAC, next meeting Thursday, September 29
15:05:58 <Kim> Topic:  TPAC
15:06:05 <patrick_h_lauke> correction on the second link - it should be  https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
15:06:27 <Kim> Kathy: hour and a half session – overview so people can see the whole
15:07:19 <patrick_h_lauke> Topic: M1
15:07:35 <patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:07:59 <chriscm> present+ chriscm
15:08:38 <chriscm> kim: How do you feel about the text for M1?
15:08:47 <chriscm> Kathy: looks good
15:09:10 <Kim> present+Kim
15:09:11 <chriscm> Patrick: Very high level, of course things will work with pointer.
15:09:39 <patrick_h_lauke> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#keyboard-operation
15:10:40 <chriscm> Patrick: Only interested in actual functionality than how the person is moving the pointer.
15:10:42 <Jatin> present +Jatin
15:10:54 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:11:04 <chriscm> Kathy: The SC text "for instance" should be in the description.
15:11:25 <chriscm> Kathy: We prbably want a link to glossary terms.
15:12:36 <chriscm> Kim: Under description it says "ToDo". (Patrick: that will be removed)
15:12:48 <chriscm> Kim: remove the word "situations"
15:14:04 <chriscm> Marc: Do we need specific timings, or is that not applicable?
15:14:23 <chriscm> Marc: All functionality can be operated by pointer inputs without specific timings?
15:14:45 <chriscm> Patrick: I talk about the timing stuff in M3, which is Pointer Gestures.  Probably not necessary to add it here as well.
15:15:07 <chriscm> Kathy: Benefits, no assistive devices that mimic mouse input, and not just keyboard input.
15:15:44 <chriscm> Kathy: Anything not usable with mouse would actually be blocked on such an AT.
15:17:29 <chriscm> Marc: Also under benefits, helps users of devices without a physical keyboard.
15:19:24 <chriscm> Kim: Right now it's "Ensuring that all functionality can be used by pointer input"
15:21:03 <chriscm> Kim/Patrick: [ Interesting editorial discussion ]
15:21:24 <chriscm> Kim: Testability looks good to me, any comments...
15:21:53 <chriscm> Kathy: I think the stuff you have in brackets should be put in as a note or a technique.
15:25:53 <chriscm> Kim: Is this one set?
15:26:22 <chriscm> Marc: Do we need to find justification/evidence?  The benefit is clear, do we need supporting evidence?
15:26:52 <chriscm> Kathy: If we need it, we have it.
15:27:59 <chriscm> Kim: We could say: " According to direct experience of those in the group"
15:28:45 <Kathy> http://www.rehabmart.com/product/adapted-wireless-computer-mouse-interface-40391.html?gclid=COSB7evXkc8CFYpkhgodgz0FNQ
15:28:59 <chriscm> Kathy: There were some devices that were no longer mimicking keyboard events, but mouse pointer events.
15:29:29 <patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/template.md
15:29:47 <marcjohlic> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/wiki/Proposals-for-new-Success-Criteria
15:30:58 <chriscm> Patrick: we could write something very generic, like "this is obvious" or "from our experience"
15:31:13 <chriscm> Kim: I think it is useful to have an example so it's "picturable"
15:31:16 <Kathy> present: Kathy
15:33:12 <chriscm> Kim: What would an example be?
15:33:30 <chriscm> Patrick: You can't summon the iOS Keybaord at an arbitrary point, you have to be in an editable text field.
15:33:46 <chriscm> Kim: There's a user that uses an onscreen keyboard, what would cause a user to be stuck?
15:35:26 <chriscm> Patrick: They can't ask for the onscreen keyboard, so if events are relied on to happen in a specific way to focus elements, and the onscreen keyboard isn't requested, they couldn't get the keyboard attached to the screen.
15:35:40 <chriscm> Kim: Could you add a specific example where if this wasn't done, this wouldn't be accessible.
15:36:34 <chriscm> Kim: Any other comments on this?
15:41:32 <patrick_h_lauke> Topic: M3 https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
15:41:50 <patrick_h_lauke> Kim: as many people left, maybe we take a high level view
15:41:57 <patrick_h_lauke> and raise it next time
15:42:23 <patrick_h_lauke> Kim: question: if one is pointer and one pointer gestures is this going to be confusing?
15:42:36 <patrick_h_lauke> I guess this is a Q for Jeanne
15:43:22 <patrick_h_lauke> Jeanne: one-word short handles is a problem, but WCAG WG doesn't agree with me
15:43:29 <patrick_h_lauke> that's something the WG will debate
15:43:31 <patrick_h_lauke> endlessly
15:45:50 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: for context, the previous SC (M1) generically says "must work with a pointer", this one (M3) goes further and says "but also don't require precise/timed gestures"
15:46:01 <jeanne> s/endlessly//
15:46:04 <patrick_h_lauke> Jeanne: both are at Level A, so that may be a problem, but we'll leave that discussion for the WG
15:46:21 <patrick_h_lauke> Kim: so M3 means "NO pointer gestures"
15:46:33 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
15:46:37 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: agree, changing to "NO pointer gestures" makes this clearer
15:47:09 <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public
15:48:42 <patrick_h_lauke> Kim: the notes currently in the SC Text would make good examples for the Description if expanded upon
15:49:06 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: removing the TODO bits, which shows me that I actually need to generate some benefits and testability
15:49:13 <patrick_h_lauke> so more content writing required here
15:58:50 <patrick_h_lauke> [high-level discussion, minor tweaks, need to cross-reference this with the "Touch with AT" SC to make sure this is clearly exempted]
16:01:30 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: by the way, all SCs already reviewed by the group (as per wiki) are now also in GitHub https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/tree/gh-pages/SCs
16:03:32 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
16:07:33 <patrick_h_lauke> patrick_h_lauke has left #mobile-a11y
16:48:21 <shadi> shadi has joined #mobile-a11y
19:24:09 <shadi> shadi has joined #mobile-a11y
19:25:59 <shadi_> shadi_ has joined #mobile-a11y