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14:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:58:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 13 September 2016
14:58:25 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:58:25 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:58:26 <Zakim> 3. Survey: Initial Review of Proposed SC (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewSC_initialthoughts/) [from Joshue108]
14:58:33 <AWK> Zakim, clear agenda
14:58:33 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:59:13 <AWK> agenda+ TPAC Agenda
14:59:20 <AWK> agenda+ Publication update
14:59:40 <AWK> agenda+ WCAG 2.1 requirements discussion (https://w3c.github.io/wcag21/requirements/)
14:59:45 <AWK> +AWK
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15:01:09 <AWK> regrets+ Sarah_Horton, Makoto_Ueki
15:01:15 <Rachael> +Rachael
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15:03:31 <Lauriat> Present+ Lauriat
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15:05:01 <KimD> +KimD
15:05:11 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:06:37 <kirkwood> present+ kirkwood
15:07:33 <jeanne> scribenick: jeanne
15:07:39 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
15:07:46 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
15:07:46 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC Agenda" taken up [from AWK]
15:07:50 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
15:07:50 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC Agenda" taken up [from AWK]
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15:08:11 <AWK> Proposed agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016
15:08:44 <jeanne> AWK: There will be a way to call in.
15:09:11 <jeanne> ... the COGA proposal which is first thing Monday morning at 9:00 will be midnight if you are in California
15:09:48 <jeanne> ... on Day 1, we will be looking at proposals from COGA, Mobile and Low Vision. The dPub group will meet with us in the morning.
15:10:06 <jeanne> ... We will also look at the WCAG 2.1 requirements document
15:10:23 <jeanne> ... Tuesday morning will be planning on Silver
15:10:30 <jeanne> ... then Education and Outreach
15:10:35 <jeanne> ... Rechartering
15:10:44 <jeanne> ... The ACT task force
15:10:52 <jeanne> ... success criteria numbering
15:11:29 <laura> present+ Laura
15:11:34 <jeanne> ... soliciting wide review of what we are planning to do - more of a placeholder.  It can be used if other items want to run over.
15:11:53 <jeanne> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2016JulSep/0667.html
15:11:59 <Joshue108> JS: Silver sub group just sent out a mail.
15:12:02 <AWK> Jeanne: Sent email from the silver subgroup with info that will be presented
15:12:11 <AWK> ...4 proposals to consider
15:12:18 <Joshue108> JS: Theres a lot there, 4 ideas for the group to consider.
15:12:23 <AWK> ... a comparison chart to help understand
15:12:48 <Joshue108> JS: There is an explanitory doc etc, and links to proposals.
15:12:56 <Joshue108> JS: Please have a look before TPAC.
15:13:25 <AWK> q?
15:14:05 <Joshue108> Yes, great work!
15:15:01 <jeanne> [no objections to the TPAC agenda]
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15:16:08 <AWK> ZAkim, close item 1
15:16:08 <Zakim> agendum 1, TPAC Agenda, closed
15:16:09 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:16:09 <Zakim> 2. Publication update [from AWK]
15:16:13 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
15:16:13 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Publication update" taken up [from AWK]
15:16:14 <jeanne> AWK: Calling into TPAC can be difficult because of the time shift and it is often hard to hear.  Please set your expectations appropriately
15:16:36 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:16:44 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
15:16:51 <jeanne> AWK: Techniques and Understanding are queued up.
15:16:54 <Joshue108> present+ Josh
15:17:22 <jeanne> MC: They are in my bottleneck, they cannot happen before TPAC, but I will try to see if I can do anything about it.
15:17:35 <jeanne> AWK: THere are pre-TPAC moritorium issues.
15:17:39 <AWK> ZAkim, close item 2
15:17:39 <Zakim> agendum 2, Publication update, closed
15:17:40 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:17:40 <Zakim> 3. WCAG 2.1 requirements discussion (https://w3c.github.io/wcag21/requirements/) [from AWK]
15:17:43 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 3
15:17:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "WCAG 2.1 requirements discussion (https://w3c.github.io/wcag21/requirements/)" taken up [from AWK]
15:18:17 <jeanne> AWK: Mostly we want to refresh people's memory of this, and get people started thinking about this.
15:19:16 <Joshue108> q?
15:19:52 <jeanne> ... we did get some feedback.  One of the pieces of feedback is that the greatest pressure on the WCAG WG is that we include mobile well.
15:20:50 <jeanne> ... the Introduction section [AWK reads]
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15:21:31 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:21:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:21:32 <jeanne> ... even though the document says in the top that mobile is included, we need to make it more explicit.
15:22:13 <AWK> possible: nsure that WCAG 2.1 success criteria support mobile use-cases.
15:22:16 <jeanne> ... would people envision a new bullet in the list of 5 bullets, to be sure that WCAG 2.1 includes success criteria that ...
15:22:20 <AWK> possible: Ensure that WCAG 2.1 success criteria support mobile use-cases.
15:22:50 <Kathy> q+
15:22:56 <jeanne> +1 for the longer list of inclusion
15:23:59 <jeanne> KW: I agree. I would also like to see us include something that specifically says Mobile. People are expecting Mobile Accessibility Guidelines, so we need to see how the success criteria applies to mobile.
15:25:08 <Joshue108> https://w3c.github.io/wcag21/requirements/
15:25:09 <jeanne> ... we need something that explictly says that it includes mobile if we are just calling it WCAG 2.1.
15:25:51 <jeanne> AWK:  Would this new bullet do what you are suggesting or part of what you are suggesting?
15:26:05 <jeanne> KW:  To put it in the underlying goal.
15:26:18 <Joshue108> q+ to say what about but not limited to, mobile devices and mobile use cases?
15:26:18 <jeanne> ... not just mobile use cases.
15:26:23 <AWK> Ensure that WCAG 2.1 can be applied to mobile
15:26:41 <Joshue108> ack kathy
15:27:12 <Joshue108> -q
15:27:29 <Joshue108> q+ to say should the how this is applied to mobile be in the requirements doc?
15:27:46 <jeanne> KW: More about how it can be applied.  So people know how the guidelines can be applied to mobile, low vision, COGA. There is nothing clearly documents that the new success criteria apply to mobile. People would have to read the Understanding document to know it.
15:27:52 <AWK> Ensure that WCAG 2.1 success criteria support mobile use-cases and supporting documentation clarifies the applicability to mobile.
15:28:17 <Joshue108> ack me
15:28:17 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say should the how this is applied to mobile be in the requirements doc?
15:28:17 <AWK> ack j
15:28:53 <jeanne> JO: Should what Kathy is asking be in the Requirements document?  Is the language specific?
15:29:03 <jeanne> KW:  I think so.
15:29:46 <jeanne> JO: Does it need details of how it applies?  I think not.
15:29:57 <jeanne> AWK: I also think not, for the Requirements doc.
15:30:45 <AWK> q?
15:30:45 <jeanne> JO: If Kathy agrees, I am good.
15:30:48 <Joshue108> q?
15:30:51 <jeanne> KW:  I am fine with it.
15:31:57 <Joshue108> q+ to say that Ensure that all WCAG 2.1 success criteria are in harmony - would be sufficient
15:32:02 <Joshue108> ack me
15:32:02 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that Ensure that all WCAG 2.1 success criteria are in harmony - would be sufficient
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15:32:28 <jeanne> AWK: The part of the document that says "Ensure that all WCAG 2.1 success criteria are in harmony and address the needs of users in multiple domains where possible."  I don't think we address this in detail, perhaps because we are not clear about it.  Does this new bullet replace that?
15:32:43 <jeanne> ... What does it mean?
15:33:16 <jeanne> JO: That the success criteria are harmonized and do not create problems for other success criteria.
15:34:04 <jeanne> AWK: If it means that one success criteria doesn't undermine other success criteria, then that seems rather obvious.  We have to create a document that can be implemented.
15:34:32 <Joshue108> q?
15:34:32 <jeanne> JO: It's more about the potential conflict with previous versions.
15:35:00 <jeanne> ... I didn't define the requirements for harmony.
15:35:22 <Rachael> q+
15:35:31 <AWK> ack r
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15:36:07 <Joshue108> s/potential conflict with previous versions./potential disconnect between new technologies and user requirements and older more established sets of user requirements and technologies./
15:36:15 <jeanne> Rachel: If we do keep it and want to define it, we could use the work we did a few weeks ago on good success criteria.
15:36:56 <Joshue108> q?
15:37:02 <jeanne> JO: I was thinking more about conflict between success criteria from COGA and Low Vision
15:37:24 <jeanne> Rachel:  Overlap would also be an issue, if we decide to keep this.
15:37:37 <jeanne> ... where two success criteria test the same thing.
15:37:47 <AWK> Rachael: Testability and non-overlapping are both important
15:38:25 <jeanne> KW: The overlap is important, because today we can't update the existing success criteria.
15:38:48 <jeanne> AWK: And there is defnitely overlap between existing success criteria.
15:38:54 <Joshue108> q?
15:39:09 <jeanne> ... we need a requirement "don't make it worse" [joking]
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15:40:54 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
15:43:10 <jeanne> AWK: We are going to let the AC reps know that the rechartering is coming, that is, the change to the charter
15:43:47 <jeanne> ... we also need to reach out to other organizations such as the Access Board and EU groups, so that they know about the upcoming work and be able to provide input.
15:44:00 <jeanne> ... then we resolve comments and we are off and running
15:44:14 <jeanne> ... hopefully, we will ahve a FPWD in February.
15:44:26 <jeanne> ... a lot of balls in the year, but for now  we are on track.
15:44:29 <Joshue108> q?
15:44:46 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
15:44:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html jeanne
15:45:12 <JF> Q+
15:45:33 <AWK> ack jf
15:45:47 <Joshue108> https://w3c.github.io/wcag21/requirements/
15:45:48 <jeanne> AWK: If you are representing a W3C member company, please advocate internally so that when it comes to ballet that your AC rep supports it.
15:46:23 <jeanne> JF: Do we have a one page summary that we can point people toward. Next week is TPAC.
15:47:02 <jeanne> AWK: Judy had some comments on the "heads-up" document. We are waiting on final review on that. We are waiting to see if it can be sent out.
15:47:40 <jeanne> ... can we get permission to share that, or at least the talking points?
15:47:59 <jeanne> MC: We should share the charter content, and give people links to the charter.
15:48:24 <jeanne> ... I think we should be able to discuss the issues at TPAC.
15:48:47 <jeanne> JF: What can we do to resolve it?
15:49:00 <jeanne> MC: This is not something I can do anything about.
15:50:29 <jeanne> AWK: We should draw up key points, here is the current state, here is where the documents are at, and to share the links.
15:51:26 <jeanne> Reminder: Look at the work from the SIlver sub-group.
15:51:29 <laura> bye
15:51:37 <jeanne> JO: safe travels everyone.
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