13:00:22 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 13:00:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/31-sdw-irc 13:00:24 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:00:24 Zakim has joined #sdw 13:00:26 Zakim, this will be SDW 13:00:26 ok, trackbot 13:00:27 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference 13:00:27 Date: 31 August 2016 13:00:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:00:41 present+ roba 13:01:12 present+ DanhLePhuoc 13:01:15 present+ ScottSimmons 13:01:18 regrets+ Rachel, Lars, SimonCox, Andrea 13:01:27 present+ BartvanLeeuwen 13:01:30 ByronCinNZ has joined #sdw 13:01:46 present+ ByronCinNZ 13:01:58 kerry has joined #sdw 13:01:59 regrets+ edparsons 13:02:13 frans has joined #sdw 13:02:27 present+ phila 13:02:33 present+ kerry 13:03:03 must step away for a few minutes 13:03:22 ChrisLittle has joined #Sdw 13:03:24 jtandy has joined #sdw 13:03:31 Present 13:03:34 present+ frans 13:03:45 Present+ ChrisLittle 13:03:54 RaulGarciaCastro has joined #sdw 13:04:19 jtandy has joined #sdw 13:04:45 present+ jtandy 13:04:56 * Someone is a fast typist 13:05:07 present+ RaulGarciaCastro 13:06:15 regrets+ Ed 13:06:21 on monday night ed was to chair 13:06:27 I am back 13:06:28 I am having voice problems 13:07:04 joshlieberman has joined #sdw 13:07:35 technical!!!!! 13:08:05 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160831 13:08:10 chair: Jeremy 13:09:15 scribe: kerry 13:09:21 scribenick: kerry 13:09:26 http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-sdw-minutes.html 13:09:39 +1 13:09:40 propose: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-sdw-minutes.html 13:09:42 topic: approve last meetings minutes 13:09:46 |+1 13:09:48 +1 13:09:52 +1 13:09:55 +1 13:10:04 resolved: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-sdw-minutes.html 13:10:19 topic: patent call 13:10:30 i ma missing from present list again - maybe i beat bot to it, otherwise +1 13:10:57 scribe: Jeremy Tandy 13:11:02 scribenick: jtandy 13:11:02 S/am/am/ 13:11:13 topic: f2f https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4 13:11:14 S/ma/am 13:11:36 kerry: goal to bring people's attention to the upcoming f2f 13:11:44 ... there is a draft agenda 13:12:00 ... best so far, [but by no means finished!] 13:12:13 ... 8:30 am to 6pm 13:12:15 +1 13:12:27 ... is this OK? 13:12:31 8:30 is doable 13:12:40 There is usually more coffee than you can drink 13:12:56 * back in a few minutes 13:12:57 kerry: registration is open from 8am 13:13:35 kerry: summarises ... 8:30 to start 13:13:49 kerry: first thing on the agenda is UCR doc 13:14:00 ... this should be the last time we look at this 13:14:07 ... is that OK frans ? 13:14:33 frans: there are still things coming on the plate. will there be new versions of the documents before TPAC? 13:15:00 kerry: yes - there was a preference for this - a week before TPAC for stable review. 13:15:10 scribe: phila 13:15:31 frans: We can have a new version of the UCR before TPAC but it may not be final. 13:15:39 kerry: OK, let's leave it on the agenda 13:15:58 q+ 13:16:25 kerry: And that will .. 13:16:32 jtandy: Can I just ask Frans.. 13:16:58 jtandy: One of the things on the list recently is whether or not we have a req for units of measure and precision and accuracy. 13:17:09 ... This is necessary as a minimum for CRS 13:17:22 ... from a BP doc perspective, we're not putting anything in until there's a req for it. 13:17:30 * back 13:17:40 ... So are you trying to synthesise those reqs before TPAC. 13:18:14 q? to ask kerry which agenda we're looking at as https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4 seems different 13:18:28 kerry: Should we move the UCR to after the BP discusssion? 13:18:37 jtandy: I think the BP discussion will take up as much time as it can and more 13:18:45 q+ to ask kerry which agenda we're looking at as https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4 seems different 13:19:08 kerry: If there's anything concrete to add to the agenda, let me know. 13:19:09 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4-best-practice-agenda-scratch-pad 13:19:29 jtandy: I've created a wiki page ^^ trying to get individuals to talk about issues that interest them most. 13:19:42 kerry: If you can work in that time frame, please edit the wiki 13:19:57 jtandy: I notice that you included a vote to release a new version of the BP doc in the agenda... 13:20:04 kerry: How would you like to end? 13:20:38 jtandy: We have a draft doc, we have a list of outstanding changes to make, all allocated to individuals to complete by a given date. Then after TPAC we can do what we need to do and then release after that. 13:20:53 q+ 13:21:01 q- 13:21:30 [More jtandy - kerry discussion] 13:21:33 q? 13:21:36 ack me 13:21:36 phila, you wanted to ask kerry which agenda we're looking at as https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4 seems different 13:21:50 -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F4 13:22:17 phila: Confused 13:22:27 kerry: Updating the agenda again... 13:22:46 q? 13:22:56 ack frans 13:23:37 frans: To be clear, there won't be a new PWQD of hte BP doc before TPAC, but will there be a stable version to review before then 13:23:54 jtandy: of the BP doc? There should be a reasonably stable version in the week up to TPAC. 13:24:01 ... We'll highlight where there are gaps. 13:24:11 jtandy: Linda is now away for a week and a bit 13:24:28 ... I'm overlapping... so we may be a little uncoordinated up to TPAC. 13:24:35 Topic: Tuesday 13:24:50 kerry: Bill has asked for time on coverages. we'll start first thing 13:25:13 ... Up until morning tea. And then the rest of the day is SSN. The SSN people need some plenary time. 13:25:19 ... There will be sub topics 13:25:24 q? 13:25:26 ... Important for us to come back to the main group 13:25:35 s/PWQD of hte/PWD of the/ 13:25:43 ... And then the plan fort the last 2 hours - we've been approached by the Web of Things WG 13:26:01 ... They're spawning a new group who want to talk to us about a vocab for a Web of Things 13:26:22 kerry: We were aiming for a session on Wednesday but they're not available. 13:26:41 ... So I think that WoT session will be interesting beyind the SSN people. Lots of spatial data things to think about. 13:26:58 q+ 13:27:08 ack phila 13:27:22 -> www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5751 Sensor API stuff 13:27:49 +q 13:28:05 phil asks for review that paper 13:28:11 phila: Plugs the generic sensor API seeking review 13:28:24 kerry: Danh - could you take a look at that, please? 13:29:28 It would be helpful for those of us conflicted in Orlando to make sure the TPAC session notes are fairly complete and promptly available. 13:29:38 q? 13:29:40 DanhLePhuoc_: OK, I can take a look 13:29:46 ack ChrisLittle 13:29:55 ChrisLittle: Can DanhLePhuoc_ please let me know about his review directly? So I can report back to OGC? 13:30:00 q+ 13:30:03 ... Lots of relevant stuff at OGC on this 13:30:18 +1 to Chris 13:30:39 DanhLePhuoc_: I see several things in common. So yes. 13:30:44 q? 13:30:46 DanhLePhuoc_: I'll look at that. 13:30:49 ack kerry 13:30:52 ack kerry 13:31:16 kerry: I have to say - Chris, your suggestion is very sincere - everyone would agree with you but it's a very big space. 13:31:29 ... OneM2M is based on SSN I believe. 13:31:44 ... There are lots^n of groups working in that space. 13:31:56 ... There was a big workshop in Europe last year that mapped that. 13:32:07 ChrisLittle: Then maybe we should be in the business of mapping the landscape. 13:32:15 q+ to make a suggestion to Denise 13:32:16 Perhaps the best we can hope for is to try to keep up on how all of these API's may be related to each other. OGC are still dealing with the overlap between STA and SOS... 13:32:24 q+ 13:32:39 q? 13:32:40 ChrisLittle: Can we look at common approaches 13:32:44 q- later 13:32:53 ack ScottSimmons 13:32:55 ScottSimmons: I agree 13:32:58 It seems to me that the sooner convergence attempts are started, the better. 13:33:18 q+ 13:33:20 ScottSimmons: That was news to me too. We should try and get the groups talking 13:33:30 q+ 13:33:32 ... I have a rough idea where the differences anda similarities lie 13:33:35 q? 13:33:36 ack phila 13:33:37 phila, you wanted to make a suggestion to Denise 13:33:40 ack phila 13:34:16 ack k 13:34:18 ack kerry 13:34:36 kerry: We have Robin ? who is working with Steve Liang who was coming to SSN meetings. He's never said much 13:34:45 phila: He's never spoken at all as far as I know 13:35:02 kerry: And the API people - Linda and I went to their meeting in Japan last year 13:36:33 kerry: Didn't feel it was on target for us 13:36:43 phila: They're only concerned with browser APIs, not what's behind it 13:36:44 q/ 13:36:46 q? 13:36:51 ack danh 13:37:00 ... We should check that we should or shouldn't be talking 13:37:26 DanhLePhuoc_: DO they see spatial data as relevant to sensor data? Even within W3C we had ?? context 13:37:39 ChrisLittle has joined #Sdw 13:37:43 ... then we... [very faint] 13:38:10 DanhLePhuoc_: I don't know how we can collaborate 13:38:13 danh: spatial data also relevant to sensors, alos [smoething] and snesor api and web of things and other iot consortuims... I don't know how we can collaborate 13:38:33 s/alos/also/ 13:38:34 q? 13:38:41 s/smoething/something/ 13:38:48 S/sensor/sensor/ 13:38:50 q? 13:39:04 S/snesor/sensor/ 13:39:14 kerry: So we're waiting for a bit of filling in from SSN and BP for the TPAC agenda. 13:39:28 s/consortuims/consortiums/ 13:39:33 how to position ourselfs and collaborate with other groups, Device Context, Sensor API, WoT, ETSI M2M, oneM2M which have relevant APIs and data model 13:39:53 ScottSimmons has just sent a message to the OGC SensorThings email reflector to request participation/support for engagement with generic sensor API group 13:40:10 Topic: Updates on the UCR doc 13:40:25 topic: BP update 13:40:42 frans: I haven't prepared anything. There are many different topics. I'd like to ask people to pay attention to the mailing list ... 13:40:50 Topic: Best Practices 13:41:19 jtandy: Linda and I have been busy trying to press on with the doc. I think she's done great work in boiling it down. We used to have 30, now we have 15. 13:41:24 ... Quality not quantity. 13:41:33 ... Linda has also been working to align them with DWBP 13:41:56 ... Some of the things that are left over... we think we want a section on CRS which Payam is leading. 13:42:21 ... We anticipate a section in the intro on CRS and a BP around how to choose it. That will need to apply to non-geographic CRS ones. 13:42:33 ... We need a decision tree on choosing your vocabs and formats 13:42:38 q+ to talk i18n 13:42:52 ... How to we channel people to the simplest format that does the job. 13:43:02 jtandy: we have the Newhaven flooding scenario. 13:43:32 ... My job is to clarify what my actors are doing when publishing admin boundarfes, flood extent, using social media... 13:43:40 ... And then I need real world examples. 13:43:45 ... This won't be done before TPAC 13:43:58 s/boundarfes/boundaries/ 13:44:07 ... Really want to have some real world examples and data 13:44:16 ... Maybe that not all the examples will relate to flooding. 13:44:22 q+ 13:44:29 jtandy: Not all our data will be geolocated. 13:44:40 ... the data examples won't all be in the same place. 13:45:05 looking for unmute button 13:45:15 jtandy: I think Bart is offering some geolocated examples in a test bed? 13:45:44 BartvanLeeuwen: We're not talking about a test bed but we are pursuing the stuff I demod earlier. 13:45:56 ... We'll be presenting that the day after I've been to TPAC. 13:46:08 q? 13:46:12 ... We want to say it's easy to add this, to expose data etc. 13:46:28 jtandy: The examples being geographically distributed is probably correct then 13:46:30 ack me 13:46:30 phila, you wanted to talk i18n 13:47:00 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#LocaleParametersMetadata DWBP CR 13:48:45 ack kerry 13:48:47 phila: Talked about the slight change to locale neutral advice in DWBP 13:49:18 kerry: When we were doing SSN the first time, we were working with people doing stuff on the other side of the channel - Southampton/Solent 13:49:34 ... I think that was public and had lots of data 13:50:08 +q 13:50:15 jtandy: There will be limited time between now and TPAC to get the data into the doc, but I do want to create place holders 13:50:30 ack ChrisLittle 13:50:30 jtandy: If you can find some references, so much the better. 13:50:49 ChrisLittle: I admit I haven't read you scenario. Does it say anything about tides? 13:51:05 ... So it's the excessive rainfall AND the tides that matter. 13:51:34 ... It's a flourishing coastal city in NL... We don't go into causes of the rising water. 13:51:49 jtandy: There are some e-mails that ask for input on nspecific BPs 13:51:56 jtandy: 5, 6, 9, 16, 17 13:51:57 q? 13:52:03 ... I need help please. 13:52:48 ... One of those, 6, is about the use of identifiers. I'm looking for people to indicate support indirect identification. It talks about using the identifier of a mailbox to identify the person whose mailbox it is. 13:52:58 ... I'm looking for consensus to merge. 13:53:11 s/merge/emerge/ 13:53:16 q+ 13:53:17 ... The sooner I can get those issues solved, the sooner I can get the doc into shape. 13:53:17 Jeremy, was my response clear? 13:53:27 q+ 13:53:32 ack joshlieberman 13:53:45 joshlieberman: There is this question, do we have this HTTP Range 14 problem? 13:54:15 ... The assertion is that it doesn't because we're talking about feature data since if were clear that we're talking about feature data, then that's clear 13:54:29 ... There is some legitimate ambiguity that not everyone cares about. 13:54:41 ... It's an inherent property of feature data. 13:55:23 ... If we need to disambiguate which real world feature we're talking about. This feature representation may not be the same as that, although they may be referring to the same real world featuyre 13:56:01 q? 13:56:08 joshlieberman: In many cases, people are referring to the same real world thing, so there are occasions where we may need to disambiguate. Otherwise I think the indoirect ids worl well for spatial data. 13:56:23 jtandy: I'll re-read what you said and then come back to you if needs be 13:56:28 ack roba 13:56:31 ack roba 13:56:35 S/worl/work/ 13:57:08 roba: I won't touch that topic. My concern... I see a degree of inconsistency between subgroups around whether a requirement must be in the UCR before it can be dealt with. 13:57:08 S/indoirect/indirect/ 13:57:14 q+ 13:57:27 ... Can anyone clear state what the relationship is? 13:57:27 ack frans 13:58:02 frans: The wayu you said it is the way the UCR is set up. It specifies reqs for Spatial Data in the Web. Sub groups can work with other sources thayt have additional requirements. 13:58:15 s/wayu/way/ 13:58:18 frans: Some topics go beyond spatial data on the web, such as time. 13:58:28 ... SO I think it makes sense toi have some exceptions. 13:58:33 s/toi/to/ 13:58:38 s/SO/So/ 13:58:52 q? 13:58:58 frans: If a requirement just comes from generally doing things right then I don't think we need to include it. 13:59:13 q? 13:59:15 q+ 13:59:18 roba: So it's not 100% consistent with the idea that a req must be in the UCR 13:59:19 q+ 13:59:22 ack k 13:59:31 kerry: I've not heard that about Time or SSN 13:59:52 roba: For example, the SSN group asked me to see if the UCR was complete 14:00:08 q- 14:00:12 Topic: SSN 14:00:25 kerry: We wanted to make sure that SSN was meeting its reqs 14:00:33 ... we resolved that in our last SSN meeting 14:01:03 s/worl/work/ 14:01:24 I am behind on a few topics, I have to admit. 14:01:37 kerry: I don't think SSN needs to be entirely constrained by the UCR, but we'd be mad not to cover all the reqs in the UCR 14:01:39 ok - happy that we are saying that we must have UCR ref for every requirement... 14:02:02 frans: Two new requirements are coming, so we're still accepting new ones. 14:02:11 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:02:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/31-sdw-minutes.html phila 14:02:14 q? 14:02:28 roba: OK, I;m happy if everyone accepts that we don't *have* to have a UCR Req 14:02:35 agree with rob's assessment 14:02:50 kerry: Nor do we have to deliver all the reqs, but we have to do a mapping and if we don't cover it, say why. 14:02:53 thanks phil 14:03:47 q? 14:03:54 kerry: On Coverages... we have the first template for a doc around data cube... 14:03:55 thx bye 14:04:05 Bye 14:04:09 Bye! 14:04:12 bye 14:04:19 chair: kerry 14:04:23 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:04:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/31-sdw-minutes.html phila 14:04:38 bye 14:04:43 bye & thanks 14:08:22 BartvanLeeuwen has left #sdw 15:18:48 jtandy has joined #sdw 15:22:19 action: phila to nudge addition of spatio-temporal link relations to the BP doc 15:22:20 Created ACTION-197 - Nudge addition of spatio-temporal link relations to the bp doc [on Phil Archer - due 2016-09-07]. 15:42:46 jtandy has joined #sdw 16:18:54 Zakim has left #sdw