14:02:18 RRSAgent has joined #exi 14:02:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/30-exi-irc 14:02:20 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:02:20 Zakim has joined #exi 14:02:22 Zakim, this will be EXIWG 14:02:22 ok, trackbot 14:02:23 Meeting: Efficient XML Interchange Working Group Teleconference 14:02:23 Date: 30 August 2016 14:03:02 dape has joined #exi 14:04:05 present+ CB, TK 14:04:45 present+ DP 14:04:47 brutzman has joined #exi 14:07:58 scribe: TK 14:08:04 scribeNick: taki 14:08:44 TOPIC: EXI4JSON 14:09:23 TK: It was published. 14:09:41 TK: DP sent an announcement on public mailing list. 14:10:36 TK: We need to think about what is the next step. 14:10:53 DP: I integrated DB's comment. 14:11:06 DP: We allow dedicated schema. 14:11:20 DP: We might want to take a look at that. 14:11:34 DP: I think it is the next logical step. 14:13:31 http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html#mapping-to-xml-schema 14:13:45 DP: WoT current practice document already describes how JSON schema is mapped to XML schema. We can do the similar. 14:14:51 brutzman_ has joined #exi 14:15:11 http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html#mapping-to-xml-schema 14:19:37 The link didn't work on Internet Explorer. 14:20:09 TK: w3c.githu.io works on Firefox (Chrome works OK too). 14:20:27 seems like a styling issue somehow, thanks for the advice 14:21:36 DP: If we have this mapping, we will have real schema-based solution. 14:22:14 DP: I think we should take a look at object, and array as in the WoT Practices document but also looking at other JSON types... 14:22:54 ... this would allows us to have a complete mapping to XML Schema and allows us to use schema-informed EXI4JSON representation 14:25:23 Technical question about example 24: "EDITOR'S NOTE - JSON schema object does NOT define any order. Therefore, in order to capture the constraints of JSON schema object, we need to use xsd:all constructs instead of xsd:sequence." 14:25:56 Isn't order preserved for children in a JSON object? 14:26:10 DP: In JSON objects, properties order might change. 14:27:44 www.json.org notes "An object is an unordered set of name/value pairs." 14:31:54 DB: This is an important work that we can capture. 14:32:04 TK: This new work on supporting JSON Schema and its mapping to XML schema might get a new document or might be integrated in the existing EXI4JSON document. Any Comments? 14:33:03 DP: I think we can first describe it in the appendix section before it becomes stable. 14:33:18 DP: The document is still very short. 14:33:57 DP: we can put this information in an appendix in EXI4JSON but would need to keep in synch wtih WoT Current Practices document 14:34:08 s/wtih/with/ 14:35:21 In some sense we are growing a bit beyond strict EXI4JSON to describe adaptability of XML Schema to JSON. 14:36:43 Perhaps this is something like "suggested practices for defining data representations in XML Schema that maps well to JSON and also EXI4JSON" 14:36:57 s/maps well/map well/ 14:37:50 That seems worthy in its own right, we're not trying to correlate "everything XML" with "everything JSON" 14:38:39 ... it also seems like putting it in EXI4JSON document will let evolve and improve it, our understanding might broaden/deepen with time 14:39:37 Editorial alternative: we could simply point to WoT Current Practices from EXI4JSON and keep editing with that group. 14:41:54 extra points award for WoT draft: thanks Daniel for updating the EXI4JSON reference there. 8) 14:43:03 a true magician is not allowed to reveal how the trick really works.. 14:47:44 brutzman has joined #exi 14:47:51 anyway, with respect to WoT Current Practices, first it is good to keep that section there - a lot of eyes are likely on it, and perhaps even comments will emerge 14:48:31 we should at least point to it from EXI4JSON and think about whether it needs to be adapted or expanded 14:49:22 DP: more belongs to EXI4JSON, we should continue to work on it here. 14:51:13 possibly related issue: defining how to consistently express information in an XML Schema that provides (a) EXI options, (b) EXI4JSON options, and possibly (c) XML Schema to EXI mapping? 14:52:48 having EXI and EXI4JSON options embedded as well-defined hints or annotations in an XML schema would let tools apply EXI consistently with designer's intent 14:54:23 ... and having Current Practices for XML Schema that map well to EXI means that a data-representation designer can achieve best of all worlds simultaneously: XML, EXI, JSON and EXI4JSON 14:54:52 TOPIC: Canonical EXI 14:55:26 TK: I understand all comments were addressed. 14:55:40 DP: We need to upload the schema. 14:55:52 http://www.w3.org/2009/exi/options 14:55:54 ... sounds big perhaps, but it appears to simply require following good practices and capturing corresponding options in the XML Schema for anyone to use later. 14:55:56 DP: CB uploaded it. I need to integrate the link. 14:56:14 DP: We need to convert it into HTML5. 14:56:57 DP: I will try to fix the content. After that I need CB's help to convert into HTML5. 15:02:16 Ben: I am from Facebook web speed team. 15:02:28 Ben: Desktop, mobile site, etc. 15:02:48 Ben: Infrastructure. We are also working with Browser vendors. 15:03:15 Ben: Better formats down to the client is an option. 15:03:41 Ben: Javascript and CSS, with new compression, we had some improments. 15:04:42 Ben: Parsing text files, css/javascript/html parsing. Javascript is the biggest target. Currently, it is text, and we need to parse the whole document. 15:08:20 Ben: Javascript comes at the top. Binary format for Javascript. 15:08:52 DP: When we started, many device were not ready for general compression scheme. 15:09:06 DP: You cannot stream, this was another issue. 15:09:38 DP: EXI reduces the size, and it is typed. 15:10:11 DP: The goal of JSON and CSS are the same. 15:21:01 brutzman has joined #exi 15:21:24 (switched browsers to Chrome - IE keeps kicking me off of IRC) 15:25:19 (wide-ranging and interesting discussion with Ben and Nate of Fast Facebook team) 15:26:56 besides near-term opportunities with EXI for JSON and CSS development, we are also looking ahead to HTML5, SVG, perhaps JavaScript itself - essentially Open Web Platform strategy. 15:46:30 rrsagent, create minutes 15:46:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/30-exi-minutes.html taki 16:21:47 liam has joined #exi 16:25:42 Zakim has left #exi 18:12:32 dapea has joined #exi