13:52:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwbp
13:52:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/24-sdwbp-irc
13:52:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:52:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
13:52:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:52:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:52:37 <trackbot> Date: 24 August 2016
13:52:54 <phila> s/Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference/SDW WG, BP Sub Group telco/
13:53:02 <phila> regrets+ phila
13:55:54 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdwbp
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14:00:28 <Linda> present+ Linda
14:00:32 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
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14:01:04 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
14:01:32 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
14:02:37 <joshlieberman> present+ joshlieberman
14:03:36 <jtandy> hi all - just getting set up here ...
14:04:08 <roba> roba has joined #sdwbp
14:04:21 <roba> password?
14:04:33 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
14:04:37 <joshlieberman> same as irc channel without #
14:04:52 <phila> s/same as irc channel without #//
14:04:58 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20160824
14:05:16 <roba> hmmm though i tried that - must have made a typo
14:05:46 <roba> present+
14:05:51 <phila> chair: jtandy
14:06:40 <roba> i tried - was muted!
14:06:43 <billroberts> scribe:billroberts
14:06:47 <billroberts> scribenick:billroberts
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14:07:02 <joshlieberman> Have to leave in 15 min, regretfully.
14:07:25 <MattPerry> Present+ MattPerry
14:07:36 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/27-sdwbp-minutes
14:07:41 <billroberts> PROPOSAL:approve minutes of last meeting
14:07:45 <jtandy> +1
14:07:52 <Linda> +1
14:07:55 <MattPerry> +1
14:07:56 <billroberts> 0 - not there
14:07:59 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:08:16 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:08:46 <ClausStadler_> ClausStadler_ has joined #sdwbp
14:08:46 <roba> +1
14:08:46 <billroberts> roba: notes that he was at the last meeting, but not listed in the 'Present' list.
14:08:50 <ClausStadler_> +0 (wasn't there)
14:08:51 <billroberts> Jeremy will ask Phil to update
14:08:57 <billroberts> RESOLUTION: minutes approved
14:09:17 <jtandy> Patent Call
14:09:18 <ClausStadler_> present+ ClausStadler
14:09:25 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
14:09:40 <billroberts> (no patent issues raised)
14:09:47 <jtandy> topic: BP document status (quick update & request for feedback)
14:10:37 <billroberts> Linda: we've been restructuring the BP document, especially the BP section itself
14:11:09 <billroberts> ...I've gone through all of Chapter 10
14:11:10 <jtandy> Here's the latest editor's draft ... http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/
14:11:26 <billroberts> ...have aligned with Data on the Web BP document where possible
14:11:43 <billroberts> ...and merged best practices where possible, notably in the identifier section and the linking data section
14:12:06 <billroberts> ...but there are still open issues and many BPs lacking examples (though those examples will generally come from the Narrative)
14:12:24 <jtandy> Linking spatial data: http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#bp-linking
14:12:35 <billroberts> ...Could everyone please look at the section 'Linking Spatial Data' and let me know if you agree with it, whether you think it makes sense.  Please review
14:12:58 <billroberts> ...and there are threads on the mailing list about various aspects of the BPs.  Please continue to contribute to those as much as you can
14:13:33 <billroberts> Jeremy: I started an email thread on CRS a few weeks ago. Payam is compiling responses to that and might lead to a new BP
14:13:55 <billroberts> ...there is currently a note sitting between BP1 and BP2 with info on CRSs
14:14:17 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#narrative
14:14:20 <billroberts> ...the narrative with its rich examples around the flooding scenarios is currently in Chapter 12
14:14:42 <billroberts> ...progress slow on adding to that. We have a reasonable story but I need to explain what each actor in the narrative is doing
14:15:06 <billroberts> Jeremy: notes that Bill is working on something for the narrative
14:15:54 <billroberts> billroberts: will try to finish his section of the narrative by end of this week
14:16:18 <billroberts> jtandy: we'll have to find a balance of level of detail
14:16:39 <billroberts> jtandy: what else is everyone expecting regarding the narrative?
14:16:47 <billroberts> ....silence...
14:17:03 <billroberts> jtandy: in that case I assume everyone is happy with the direction. Thanks to Linda
14:17:08 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has left #sdwbp
14:17:14 <jtandy> topic: Review 'orphan' Best Practices in §11 "Other best practices"
14:17:29 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#bp-notaligned
14:18:10 <billroberts> jtandy: what should we do with these ?
14:18:55 <billroberts> Linda: these are specific BPs, most of them related to observation or sensor data, which were difficult to align with the Data on the Web approach.  So they're in Chapter 11 because of that
14:19:14 <billroberts> ...they don't fit in the new structure.  Do we still need them? can they be merged with another BP?
14:19:25 <billroberts> jtandy: comments?
14:19:50 <billroberts> roba: just before hte meeting I posted a review of the UCR document from the perspective of the SSN group
14:20:11 <billroberts> ...and some of these BPs are covered to some extent in that review, which could help clarify the requirements relating to these BPs
14:20:31 <jtandy> q?
14:20:43 <billroberts> Rob's review: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Aug/0172.html
14:21:15 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:21:36 <billroberts> jtandy: it may have been premature to include some of those issues in the BP doc. Will they be covered sufficiently in the SSN group?
14:21:50 <billroberts> roba: it's not up to just me but I think they probably will be dealt with
14:22:11 <billroberts> ...it's about ensuring that semantics are described sufficiently and making sure that metadata can be attached to datasets
14:22:20 <billroberts> ...probably more a narrative thing than a new specific BP
14:22:40 <billroberts> jtandy: we probably need an action to evaluate BPs in the light of Rob's review
14:23:10 <billroberts> roba: a lot of it is about re-use of vocabularies.  How far should we go in the BP towards picking a specific vocabulary
14:23:38 <billroberts> ...for example the updated time ontology, the updated SSN ontology, Josh's lightweight 'spatial thing' ontology
14:24:28 <billroberts> ...should we hav e a generic recommendation that people look by preference to OGC as an international standards organisation for existing vocabularies - as opposed to eg student projects etc
14:24:46 <billroberts> jtandy: we are recommending that people use established and well-documented vocabularies
14:25:11 <jtandy> (coming to ByronCinNZ next!)
14:25:27 <billroberts> ...so the question is should we recommend new work from the SDW group which, because it's new, is not yet an established practice?
14:26:01 <billroberts> roba: a lot of stuff can be simplified by the generic practice of 'look at existing OGC work first'
14:26:35 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:27:57 <billroberts> ByronCinNZ: SDW is aiming mostly at general web developers, not spatial data professionals.  Data on the Web was aimed at a more experienced audience
14:28:08 <billroberts> ...the SSN part in contrast seems aimed at expert level people
14:28:20 <billroberts> ...so seems a bit inconsistent in tone
14:29:10 <billroberts> roba: agrees with Byron.  Probably too much detail at present in the BP
14:29:12 <Linda> q+
14:29:40 <jtandy> ack Linda
14:29:40 <billroberts> jtandy: so specifics of the SSN work could go into a separate primer, part of the SSN package of things
14:29:48 <jtandy> q?
14:30:19 <billroberts> Linda: so BPs 16,17,18,19 and 20 should be removed from here and adopted by the SSN group.  Is that right?
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14:31:13 <billroberts> jtandy: let's work through those one at a time
14:31:23 <ChrisLittle> Present+ ChrisLittle
14:32:09 <billroberts> PROPOSAL:BP16 is migrated to SSN work
14:32:17 <Linda> BP16 = http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#bp-notaligned
14:32:21 <jtandy> Best Practice 16: Provide context required to interpret observation data values
14:32:55 <jtandy> +1
14:32:56 <roba> q+
14:32:57 <jtandy> q?
14:32:57 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:32:58 <Linda> +1
14:33:01 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:33:02 <MattPerry> +1
14:33:05 <jtandy> ack rib
14:33:08 <billroberts> +1
14:33:08 <jtandy> ack roba
14:33:32 <Linda> BP16 = #provide-context
14:34:04 <billroberts> roba: some of this comes down to metadata about specific pieces of data.  So yes, the sensor bits could be moved to the SSN work, but some of this is more generic and not otherwise well handled in the BP work
14:34:58 <billroberts> ACTION:ByronCinNZ to review Data on the Web best practices document to see if this is covered
14:35:05 <jtandy> q?
14:36:39 <billroberts> jtandy: Byron, please work with Rob to distil the key information and present it back to the group
14:36:50 <billroberts> roba: again, note the UCR/SSN review
14:37:50 <billroberts> jtandy is redrafting the previous proposal:
14:38:25 <jtandy> proposal: specifics of BP 16 relating to sensors and observations should be covered in SSN work, the general case of interpreting entity-level metadata needs further consideration in the BP doc
14:39:18 <jtandy> proposal: specifics of BP 16 relating to sensors and observations should be covered in SSN work, the general case of identifiable entity-level metadata needs further consideration in the BP doc
14:39:42 <jtandy> (it's all about the user's ability to find the entity level metadata and understand it)
14:39:56 <jtandy> ... scratch that change!
14:39:56 <billroberts> roba: 'identifiable' because it's about the user's ability to find and understand metadata.  But...could I withdraw that suggested change!
14:39:57 <jtandy> proposal: specifics of BP 16 relating to sensors and observations should be covered in SSN work, the general case of interpreting entity-level metadata needs further consideration in the BP doc
14:39:59 <jtandy> +1
14:40:04 <roba> +1
14:40:06 <billroberts> +1
14:40:06 <ClausStadler_> +1
14:40:09 <Linda> +1
14:40:32 <billroberts> RESOLUTION: specifics of BP 16 relating to sensors and observations should be covered in SSN work, the general case of interpreting entity-level metadata needs further consideration in the BP doc
14:40:46 <ChrisLittle> +0
14:40:48 <jtandy> Best Practice 17: Describe sensor data processing workflows
14:40:58 <billroberts> jtandy: so this means BP16 will be removed and we'll review whether the generic stuff is covered
14:41:09 <jtandy> q?
14:41:22 <Linda> BP17 = #describe-process
14:42:03 <jtandy> proposal: BP 17 is way too specific for the Best Practice work - the details of working with sensor data processing workflows should be covered in the ssn work
14:42:08 <jtandy> +1
14:42:09 <ClausStadler_> +1
14:42:11 <Linda> +1
14:42:11 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:42:14 <MattPerry> +1
14:42:17 <roba> +1
14:42:18 <billroberts> +1
14:42:29 <jtandy> Best Practice 18: Relate observation data to the real world
14:42:35 <billroberts> RESOLUTION: BP17 moved to SSN work
14:42:40 <Linda> BP18 = #relate-obs
14:43:14 <jtandy> q?
14:43:40 <billroberts> roba: this is a special case of linking best practice
14:43:51 <jtandy> propsal: BP 18 is a special case of the linking best practices; remove from BP doc and address this concern as an example
14:43:54 <jtandy> +1
14:43:56 <Linda> +1
14:44:13 <billroberts> +1
14:44:13 <roba> +1
14:44:13 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:44:14 <ClausStadler_> +1
14:44:15 <MattPerry> +1
14:44:16 <ChrisLittle> +1
14:44:19 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:44:23 <jtandy> Best Practice 19: How to work with crowd-sourced observations
14:44:31 <Linda> BP19 = #crowd-obs
14:44:34 <billroberts> RESOLUTION: remove BP18 from BP doc and address as an example
14:44:52 <billroberts> jtandy: concerns about what makes crowd-sourced data different from anything else
14:45:44 <billroberts> jtandy: it's less about the end user but our BPs are more relevant as guidance to the aggregator or app/API builder
14:45:59 <jtandy> q?
14:46:11 <ChrisLittle> Q+
14:46:22 <billroberts> jtandy: is there anything more general about crowdsourced data that should be covered by a BP?
14:46:28 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:46:58 <billroberts> ChrisLittle:we need examples of how it is or isn't different to other data to help us decide
14:47:07 <Linda> q+
14:47:13 <jtandy> q?
14:47:15 <billroberts> ...one difference is the typical lack of quality assurance around crowdsourced data
14:47:17 <jtandy> ack ChrisLittle
14:47:19 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:47:21 <jtandy> ack Linda
14:47:41 <ClausStadler_> q+
14:47:45 <billroberts> Linda: if the difference is mostly in the data quality, we could mention it in the quality BP as an example or special case
14:47:52 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:47:58 <billroberts> ChrisLittle: another difference is the volume of crowdsourced data
14:48:55 <billroberts> ByronCinNZ: this is a big topic, with a lot of variation. eg OpenStreetMap with a lot of process, versus others with no control at all.  We don't have a good enough definition of the different types to be able to provide good guidance. It's a big can of worms
14:49:08 <jtandy> ack ClausStadler_
14:50:12 <billroberts> ClausStadler_: availability of provenance information on crowdsourced data is another difference to other types. It's iportant to have provenance to be able to decide whether to trust it
14:50:43 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:50:45 <billroberts> jtandy: maybe all the topics around crowdsourced data are out of scope for us.  It's up to platform providers to decide their own governance arrangements?
14:50:51 <jtandy> ack billroberts
14:50:53 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:51:04 <billroberts> ByronCinNZ: in some ways, it's another kind of sensor
14:51:57 <billroberts> jtandy: the Narrative includes an example of crowdsourced data, eg tweeting 'the flooding has reached my building', 'I have food to share', photos of flooding inside buildings
14:52:18 <billroberts> ...this is spatial data.  How should those platforms capture and share the spatial data?
14:53:07 <billroberts> ...Hopefully the narrative will help us decide if the crowdsourcing aspect is significant
14:53:35 <billroberts> ...so I think we should leave BP18 in the 'Other' section of the document for now and discuss further at TPAC.
14:53:41 <jtandy> Best Practice 20: How to publish (and consume) sensor data streams
14:53:53 <Linda> BP20 = #pub-streams
14:53:57 <jtandy> q?
14:53:58 <roba> q+
14:54:04 <jtandy> ack roba
14:54:27 <billroberts> (correction above: BP19 should stay in the 'Other' section, not BP18)
14:55:30 <jtandy> Proposal: BP 20 should be removed from BP document; DWBP already covers the general case of data streaming and there is nothing inherently geospatial about it
14:55:36 <jtandy> +1
14:55:41 <Linda> +1
14:55:50 <billroberts> +1
14:55:51 <roba> +1
14:55:56 <MattPerry> +1
14:56:02 <ClausStadler_> +1
14:56:07 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:56:07 <ChrisLittle> 0
14:56:12 <billroberts> RESOLUTION:BP20 should be removed from BP document
14:56:21 <jtandy> Best Practice 15: Provide a minimum set of information for your intended application
14:56:52 <Linda> BP15 = #minimum
14:57:11 <billroberts> jtandy: this is a bit like Rob's point about identifying your users and picking a vocabulary appropriate/familiar to them
14:57:24 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:57:30 <Linda> q+
14:57:46 <jtandy> q?
14:57:57 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:57:59 <billroberts> roba: this is hard to test as a recommendation.  BP0 had some very specific info about what's useful in a spatial context
14:58:28 <billroberts> ByronCinNZ: this has a lot of overlap with the one on make your data indexable by search engines
14:58:52 <jtandy> q?
14:58:55 <jtandy> ack linda
14:59:04 <Linda> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_consolidation_proposal
14:59:31 <billroberts> Linda: you proposed to remove this one as it is covered by DWBP16
14:59:57 <billroberts> jtandy: I think we should probably drop it as it's difficult to test, but we should do a bit of assessment first
15:00:46 <billroberts> jtandy: there was an agenda item to talk about TPAC planning.  I'll set up a wiki page for TPAC topics and ask people to contribute ideas. ok?
15:00:52 <billroberts> +1
15:00:59 <roba> +1
15:01:04 <billroberts> linda and roba agree too
15:01:05 <ChrisLittle> +0 not going to TPAC
15:01:19 <billroberts> jtandy: AOB?
15:01:31 <billroberts> ...no
15:01:35 <ChrisLittle> Bye
15:01:43 <jtandy> bye
15:01:47 <billroberts> bye
15:01:47 <ByronCinNZ> quit
15:01:50 <ByronCinNZ> bye
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15:43:28 <jtandy> RRSAgent generate minutes
15:45:56 <jtandy> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:46:11 <jtandy> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:46:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/24-sdwbp-minutes.html jtandy
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