14:59:59 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 14:59:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/18-mobile-a11y-irc 15:00:01 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:00:01 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 15:00:03 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 15:00:03 ok, trackbot 15:00:04 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:00:04 Date: 18 August 2016 15:00:15 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 15:00:27 Agenda+ SC Pointer with Assistive Technology - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Pointer_with_Assistive_Technology#SC_Shortname 15:00:29 Agenda+ Accidental Activation - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3 15:00:30 Agenda+ Touch Target – TBD (Marc will send the link) 15:00:32 Agenda+ Next steps and schedule 15:01:56 Scribe: Laura 15:02:03 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 15:02:10 present+ Kathy 15:02:46 present+ jeanne 15:03:03 marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y 15:04:11 Jim: any objections to Icon Fonts tech 15:04:28 Jim: 15:04:29 present+ marcjohlic 15:04:42 davidmacdonald has joined #mobile-a11y 15:04:42 …no objections. 15:05:03 Present+ DavidMacDonald 15:05:23 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Pointer_with_Assistive_Technology#SC_Shortname 15:05:31 chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y 15:05:57 zakim, take up next 15:05:57 agendum 1. "SC Pointer with Assistive Technology - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Pointer_with_Assistive_Technology#SC_Shortname" taken up [from Kim] 15:06:54 David: changed to pointer rather than touch. Do have concerns about this – think will be constantly explaining that pointer does include touch 15:07:34 Kathy: Patrick did say that for some of them we might want to say touch. The specific type of pointer in this case is touch. So it might be okay to talk about touch rather than pointer here. 15:07:46 David: I'm fine with that 15:08:23 Kathy: if any of the assistive technology starts remapping touch gestures it applies 15:08:44 David: platform assistive technology specifically – the stable stuff that's shipping with the OS 15:09:20 David: when we do get into Windows and tablets world, though we people saying this should work with draws to, but that's not what we're requiring for this. It has to work with AT but not touch 15:09:27 David: that's just warning about a discussion coming up 15:09:57 General agreement that touches better than pointer for this one 15:10:44 Alan_Smith has joined #mobile-a11y 15:10:56 Marc: is talkback a good example here - does it come on the device? is narrator better example? 15:11:04 David: it does ship with it 15:11:14 Chris: base android devices all come with it 15:11:51 Kathy: and then we have the Amazon screen reader – that's similar. 15:12:50 David: broad and edits from Patrick. Just the top level where I didn't have pointer. 15:13:04 Kathy: keep it with touch right now – we are talking about a specific type of pointer. Pointer is more global 15:14:19 Alan is good with Level A for touch 15:14:23 Kathy: priority level comments? 15:25:27 +1 15:26:43 Can you put the link back in irc? when irc loads it removes all rows of text/converstations prior to me joining 15:27:01 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Pointer_with_Assistive_Technology#Benefits 15:30:15 SOrry, another meeting got to go! Didn't want to interupt. 15:32:01 Alan: includes switch activated? 15:32:20 David: I've never heard of problems because it's so granular and you're going from item to item. I'll put it in the boneyard is a possibility 15:32:29 Alan: I'll try it on iOS to see 15:35:24 Kathy: in the benefits, need documentation to prove that this is an issue – pretty cut and dried that this is a problem, but are there any links to research or other things to prove that this is indeed a user issue. 15:36:35 Discussion about types of resources – sometimes it's people in the group seeing this happen with users. User groups… 15:37:22 http://www.applevis.com/search/site/gestures%20with%20voiceover 15:37:51 Kathy: link: all of the queries about gesture with voiceover. I think we can link to this 15:42:57 Alan_Smith has joined #mobile-a11y 15:43:45 I checked Switch control on iPad and tap is supported as a switch but it is not dependent upon target size. It does support long tap though. 15:46:27 +1 15:46:50 +1 on Touch w/ AT being ready 15:46:53 David: this ready to go? 15:47:18 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3#Description_.28Intent.29 15:47:25 RESOLUTION: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Pointer_with_Assistive_Technology#Benefits ready for WCAG 15:48:08 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3 15:48:31 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2 15:49:05 These are examples of submitted SC as requested by Andrew with template here https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/1 15:51:30 Alan: low vision user needing to use speech – is that speech input? Do we make it clear that assistive technology is voiceover? should we have that in the very beginning – it's not till you read through it that you realize that assistive technologies is voiceover and talk 15:51:48 Kathy: can be anything 15:52:09 Kathy: if any AT remaps it would fall under this 15:52:20 David: written for specific use case but the description allows us to widen it 15:53:12 zakim, take up next 15:53:12 agendum 2. "Accidental Activation - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3" taken up [from Kim] 15:53:44 Kathy: we have this almost completed 16:03:33 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_SC_Target_Size 16:05:09 Kathy: we will pick this up next week. A couple things to think about we need some evidence for this to insert. Touch target size Mark wrote up, I made edits. I started looking back at research. Couple things stood out. Android, Apple use CSS pixels. I put a summary of research and touch target sizes people were recommending with minimum. Right now we are recommending smaller than what the... 16:05:10 ...research is showing. Need to discuss that next week. In boneyard there's a link to the summary of research – Patrick had actual millimeter size based on devices. I want to challenge the size that we've got. Take a look. I made it easy to digest the research – summaries are in there under evidence. Look at what I put and think about it. We will have to make a decision next week. 16:05:46 Mark: easier to check pixels rather than measure millimeters, but it seems like millimeter measurement would be easier to follow across devices 16:05:58 Kathy: if you look at Patrick research if you set a pixel size you've got different millimeters for different things 16:06:13 Marc: if there's a way to make millimeters rather than pixels – 16:06:18 Kathy: but you can't test that way 16:06:39 Kathy: Apple went from pixels the point after the retina display came out. That's when they changed their recommendations from pixels the points. We need to look at this closely. 16:06:58 David: I think the 44 and 20 were placeholders 16:07:27 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Summary_of_Research_on_Touch/Pointer_Target_Size 16:08:07 Kathy: it was – we have to finalize this. Look at Fitt law. Lots of links all on page. 16:09:15 rrsagent, make minutes 16:09:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/18-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:10:10 Present+ Kim, Alan 16:11:22 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 16:11:37 scribe: Kim 16:11:47 rrsagent, make minutes 16:11:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/18-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:14:47 Scribe- Laura 16:14:59 rrsagent, make minutes 16:14:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/18-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:19:29 https://www.w3.org/2016/08/18-mobile-a11y-minutes.html 16:19:48 rrsagent, bye 16:19:48 I see no action items