14:57:34 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 14:57:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/11-mobile-a11y-irc 14:57:36 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:57:36 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 14:57:38 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 14:57:38 ok, trackbot 14:57:39 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:57:39 Date: 11 August 2016 14:58:25 Agenda+ Touch and other input methods proposal (Patrick, Detlev & Chris) https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087 14:58:26 Agenda+ Continue with comments from WCAG/Kathy’s analysis: 14:58:28 (All WCAG comments: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Touch_and_Pointer_Guideline_-_WCAG_WG_Feedback) 14:58:29 Agenda+ Next Steps – next meeting August 18 14:59:13 patrick_h_lauke has joined #mobile-a11y 15:00:30 present+ patrick_h_lauke 15:01:25 davidmacdonald has joined #mobile-a11y 15:01:29 Regrets+ Henny 15:01:40 Present+ Kim 15:01:41 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 15:01:52 present+ Kathy 15:02:00 Present+ DavidMacDOnald 15:02:25 s/DavidMacDOnald/DavidMacDonald 15:02:53 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements 15:03:43 Kathy: several things finalized over the last week – we now have a template for success criteria. 15:04:42 Kathy: we need to go through each of success criteria and put it in this format. Eight parts. There's a github template that Andrew put together. We have 14 and 14 weeks to do them. Lots of work ahead. 15:04:53 Kathy: walking through submission requirements 15:05:10 Kathy: also put timeline together – we want to go through and see which ones we can finalize 15:05:51 present+ shadi 15:06:01 Kathy: for each of the different success criteria that we are going to propose we need to have success criteria text. If we are suggesting a change to existing success criteria (which right now we are not) the only changes to existing are to add techniques and we can do those after December. 15:06:29 Kathy: we get the guidance from WCAG that we can't revise keyboard so will be submitting a new one. So everything is new 15:06:32 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 15:07:05 glossary terms - we'll need that definition of "pointer input" 15:07:34 Kathy: we can suggest success criteria level, but that's not required. Glossary changes. New guidelines. We need to look at each one of those – if we do, need to outline each of these. 15:07:50 Kathy: we need to clearly list what the users benefits are – why are we doing this. We already have some of that in our understanding 15:08:36 Kathy: #6 will have to really pull together some information – information about how this is going to benefit users and evidence – links to research. For example touch target size, why did we come up with that size, associated research, justification and evidence for each one 15:09:30 Kathy: #7 test procedure – doesn't have to be detailed, just description – some justification for the information that this is a testable success criteria. Anything that's not testable camera and as a success criteria. Information about how this would be tested. If we have time we can put a test procedure. At minimum brief description of how would be tested 15:09:58 marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y 15:10:10 Kathy: Titles of techniques that we would want to write – doesn't need to be complete. At least an idea of what these would be. 15:11:05 Kathy: each success criteria on a different page. You could put it in github right away or if you prefer, you can put it in a wiki page and transfer later. We don't want github to slow down anybody's progress 15:11:12 Kathy: Questions? 15:12:39 Can you post the link to the list? Thanks 15:13:38 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements 15:14:20 https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension 15:15:22 q+ 15:15:32 I took orientation 15:17:46 Kathy: we have 14 new success criteria in progress. A couple of them are pretty much done. I think we can start with those. I put my name in for next week because were going to need one of them finalized for next week. The touch target one is almost done. I'll pull that together for next week. I'd like to put people's names to the so we can get the scheduled on. Am to have draft completed... 15:17:48 ...in September. Need to identify what the issues are early on and see if people need help. We can have more than one person working on them as well. I just want to put together a schedule. 15:18:15 Discussing assignments and logistics 15:18:52 Shadi: David I'll work with you off-line to create github page 15:21:08 +1 to patrick - files may be better for collaboration ... suggest to use short handles rather than numbers 15:27:38 q+ 15:28:24 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087#254-no-accidental-activation-for-pointer-activation-at-least-one-of-the-following-is-true-level-a 15:28:37 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3 15:29:19 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087 15:31:06 New SCs in Github or wiki – put past or related documents at the top of that document and a link to it in the Mobile Success Criteria section of the submission requirements page: 15:31:08 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements 15:31:12 q- 15:31:58 David: make it clear that Pointer is touch 15:32:00 Patrick: we have that 15:32:48 chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y 15:33:05 Patrick: will do pointer, pointer gestures, keyboard with AT, device inputs – might pull and help from other people 15:33:25 Kathy: volunteer for noninterference of AT? 15:34:33 https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/issues/5 15:34:45 Kathy: it's in the Github repository for the original. Haven't done a lot of work on it yet. Even if you could start pulling together the document for it and putting in what you have 15:35:22 Patrick: concern about crossover with other taskforces 15:35:52 Kathy: we're planning on getting these proposals out there to identify any crossover. Pull together what we have 15:37:22 Sorry, phone line lost service. Please assign me one item to work on. I'll reach out with questions if I have any. Thank you. 15:37:24 chris/kathy could you add your comments to the https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/issues/5 issue and close it? 15:37:32 Chris: it's probably not mobile specific, but applies heavily to mobile because it's so young. AT on desktop is mature don't have to worry about it, AT on mobile more issues. 15:37:34 Kathy: it's getting more into the personalization aspects of it so we will want to take a look at what low vision and cognitive group are doing with that, but that is one that we may end up dropping and just putting in pointer to what they are doing. 15:37:45 chriscm_ has joined #mobile-a11y 15:38:18 David: regarding numbering – on the stuff that we are thinking about proposing a new guideline maybe we should use the numbering that we were thinking of it – that might be part of our proposal 15:38:39 Kathy: they want us to reference what it would be, but as far as success criteria numbering they wanted that left out 15:39:41 Kathy: David – once we get touch target size in the format we can go through that pretty quickly. Can you get accidental activation or works with ATI on done by next week? 15:39:47 David: yes both 15:39:55 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements#Timeline 15:40:29 Marc: will take target size for next week 15:40:53 Kathy: remember the wiki page with research for that – remember to put those links on the page for it 15:41:52 Jon: question about short names 15:42:21 David: alternate text is short name – short name is orientation 15:42:51 Jon: where is information? 15:42:58 Kathy: original note, wiki pages 15:43:47 Kathy: any history – having any of the history would be great. 15:44:12 Kathy: priority are the ones that have to do with touch and pointer, so I put those down as the ones we would want to do first, but I'm happy to change the priorities 15:45:15 Kathy: submission requirements template – I just put what was relevant to us 15:46:24 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087 15:46:29 Kathy: maybe this a good point for Patrick to go through the changes on his 15:46:38 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087/revisions 15:47:10 zakim, take up next 15:47:10 agendum 1. "Touch and other input methods proposal (Patrick, Detlev & Chris) https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087" taken up [from Kim] 15:48:21 Patrick: explaining changes, moved accidental activation – it's not AT specific. Added David's take on making SC's based on Kim's concerns about speech. 2.6.4 and 2.6.5 15:49:22 Patrick: Main rewording is 2.7, some of these have temporary names, still not 100% happy with them, but get ideas across. 2.7.1 rather than such as pressure tilt or twist – didn't want it to be too specific just in case additional sensor comes around 15:50:29 Patrick: 2.6.3 last major change 15:51:15 Alan is back on call 15:51:21 Patrick: look at it as a whole – take a helicopter view, it should cover most of the concerns about different types of input, pressure sensors, tilt and orientation sensors that sort of thing. Does it make sense? have we left anything out? take a look at wording and some of the tweaks that were made 15:51:30 Kathy: questions or thoughts? 15:51:44 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087 15:52:13 https://gist.github.com/patrickhlauke/96110b10547770021e58f5098dd31087/revisions 15:57:12 note i'm on holiday next two calls 15:57:33 q+ 15:57:33 so will have to be towards end of this month when i can make a proper start 15:57:55 Kathy: happy with general organization. Next step is putting them in individual pages. Scheduling target size, accidental activation, touch with AT for next week 15:58:23 Kathy: if you going to miss a meeting try to review – important to keep up, critical that we get everybody's input on these 16:00:50 Patrick: for anyone using the wiki initially will help put on Github once is finalized 16:01:25 Kathy: if it's a technique under an existing SC we are not worrying about those yet 16:01:42 afraid need to duck out now 16:01:57 patrick_h_lauke has left #mobile-a11y 16:01:59 Jon: we couldn't put orientation under 4.1.2 because it's page level so need new SC 16:02:06 Kathy: it's fine to go through and change it 16:02:55 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:03:26 chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y 16:04:50 Present+ Chris, Marc, Jon 16:05:08 rrsagent, make minutes 16:05:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:05:55 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 16:06:04 rrsagent, make minutes 16:06:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:16:32 chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y 17:01:30 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/ 17:01:44 rrsagent, bye 17:01:44 I see no action items