IRC log of dpub on 2016-08-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:26:20 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be dpub
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:26:25 [trackbot]
Date: 01 August 2016
14:26:31 [ivan]
Chair: Tzviya
14:27:27 [ivan]
Regrets: Heather, Dave, Luc, Vlad, Tim, Daniel
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15:00:05 [tzviya]
present+ Tzviya
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present+ duga
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15:00:18 [garth]
present+ garth
15:00:42 [cmaden2]
present+ Chris_Maden
15:00:43 [ivan]
present+ ivan
15:00:44 [bjdmeest]
Present+ Ben_De_Meester
15:01:18 [clapierre1]
present+ Charles_LaPierre
15:01:42 [boris_]
present+ BorisAnthony
15:02:01 [astearns]
present+ astearns
15:02:18 [tzviya]
scribenick: bjdmeest
15:02:26 [tzviya]
15:02:40 [Avneesh]
present+ Avneesh
15:02:47 [tzviya]
present+ George_Kerscher
15:03:22 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: welcome back everyone!
15:03:26 [tzviya]
15:03:29 [bjdmeest]
Topic: approving minutes
15:03:36 [lrosenth]
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15:03:40 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: any comments?
15:03:52 [bjdmeest]
... we did live editing on the use cases on the manifest
15:04:02 [bjdmeest]
... no comments? ok, minutes approved
15:04:11 [bjdmeest]
Topic: new members
15:04:28 [bjdmeest]
.boris_: I am Boris Anthony
15:04:38 [bjdmeest]
... I joined with the rebus foundation
15:04:42 [Bert]
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15:04:53 [bjdmeest]
... we want to bring textbooks on the Web
15:05:05 [bjdmeest]
... looking forward to working with all of you
15:05:27 [ivan]
present+ Karen
15:05:33 [tzviya]
15:05:37 [bigbluehat]
Present+ Benjamin_Young
15:05:37 [bjdmeest]
Topic: TPAC planning
15:05:41 [Bert]
15:05:46 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: there is a grid at the wiki page
15:06:01 [bjdmeest]
... but you also need to register at the W3C site
15:06:06 [bjdmeest]
... let's talk about schedule
15:06:11 [bjdmeest]
... what groups we want to meet with
15:06:24 [ShaneM]
present+ ShaneM
15:06:24 [bjdmeest]
... we meet on Monday and Tuesday, IDPF is on Thursday
15:06:41 [tzviya]
15:06:41 [bjdmeest]
... I would like to talk about A11Y with Aria
15:06:48 [bjdmeest]
... and with WebApps
15:06:52 [ivan]
15:06:58 [lrosenth]
15:07:11 [garth]
Anything with CSS?
15:07:34 [bjdmeest]
???: talking with WCAG? after the merger
15:07:45 [ivan]
15:07:54 [tzviya]
ack iv
15:07:54 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: that could be merged with the ARIA meeting, I think
15:08:04 [bjdmeest]
ivan: I think, by default, we will have a meeting with CSS
15:08:23 [bjdmeest]
... I don't know whether the SVG group is meeting
15:08:52 [bjdmeest]
... maybe, somebody from that group (if they are meeting on TPAC) to talk about where SVG is going would be good
15:09:03 [Bert]
(SVG is meeting on Thu + Fri)
15:09:07 [tzviya]
ack lr
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15:09:31 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: I also wanted to bring up CSS, and WebApps (about manifests) are a good idea, seem like the key things
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15:10:03 [ivan]
15:10:04 [bjdmeest]
... my expectations would to start working through specifics of the technical details
15:10:18 [bjdmeest]
... we focussed on use cases, and during the F2F, we could have practical discussions
15:10:46 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: It might be nice, we could reserve a little bit of time for that, but TPAC is mostly about talking with other groups
15:11:08 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: to me, I don't have the feeling we have enough foundation to talk with other groups yet
15:11:14 [tzviya]
present+ nickbarreto
15:11:23 [tzviya]
ack iv
15:11:28 [bjdmeest]
... we do have use cases
15:11:43 [bjdmeest]
.... but not enough to talk with other groups
15:11:57 [tzviya]
regrets+ pkra
15:12:01 [garth]
Could Ivan try to speak up a bit?
15:12:20 [garth]
15:12:41 [bjdmeest]
ivan: For our long-term work, I cannot emphasize enough how important the use case document is
15:12:54 [bjdmeest]
... I hope to publish at least on document to show to the world after TPAC
15:13:48 [bjdmeest]
... About Leonard's comment: in the long-term (i.e. sometime next year), we hope to create a working group that can do standardization work
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15:13:57 [bjdmeest]
... for that, we need an extensive charter
15:14:09 [bjdmeest]
... so first, we need to look into how such a charter would look like
15:14:10 [tzviya]
present+ david_stroup
15:14:16 [bjdmeest]
... how we would standardize this thing
15:14:24 [lrosenth]
15:14:36 [bjdmeest]
... that is partially technical work, more than the use cases, but not too much details
15:14:47 [bjdmeest]
... that needs to be accepted by the W3C first
15:15:15 [bjdmeest]
... in this case, there is a large level op complexity, so having a solid discussion on the IG on what sounds realistic, should be very helpful
15:15:31 [tzviya]
ack lr
15:15:44 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: talking with other groups is more about 'this is the state we are in'
15:16:06 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: I agree publishing that use case document is the first step
15:16:19 [bjdmeest]
... and I see how to proceed from IG to WG
15:16:41 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: any other requests for other groups or agenda points for ourselves for TPAC?
15:16:47 [garth]
15:17:23 [bjdmeest]
???: do we have a list of groups present at TPAC?
15:17:25 [ivan]
15:17:29 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I could send a list
15:17:30 [tzviya]
ack ga
15:18:07 [ShaneM]
The meeting schedules are up for all the groups.
15:18:45 [bjdmeest]
garth: we'll be meeting with the groups that also meet on Monday Tuesday, I assume we'll have enough time for our group
15:19:17 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: usually, we ask other groups: 'these are the slots DPUBIG have free, could you come in then?'
15:19:34 [bjdmeest]
... for some groups, we might need to shift
15:19:49 [lrosenth]
15:20:04 [bjdmeest]
... I agree we should not spend all the TPAC time, not with other groups, on use case writing
15:20:23 [tzviya]
ack iv
15:21:00 [bjdmeest]
ivan: an other group for the list is the IETM group
15:21:22 [ShaneM]
Also remember there are the crazy short sessions on Wednesday that we can set up for fun topics that we want to brainstorm with lots of other interested people.
15:21:26 [tzviya]
15:21:52 [bjdmeest]
... there are a lot of local groups that are getting towards a publication, e.g., about other language rendering
15:21:59 [tzviya]
ack lr
15:22:05 [bjdmeest]
ivan: speaking with r12a is always a good idea btw
15:22:22 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: does it make sense to have a list of topics, and send those ahead?
15:22:27 [bjdmeest]
tzivya: yes
15:22:40 [tzviya]
15:22:51 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: so that's what we'll put together in the next weeks?
15:23:15 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: See link above, it's good to have topics asap
15:23:46 [bjdmeest]
ivan: there is a new activity starting on Internet of Things
15:24:07 [bjdmeest]
... I'm wondering whether these would have a relationship with what we do
15:25:01 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: the group about identity etc., do they also meet?
15:25:06 [bjdmeest]
ivan: yes
15:25:10 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: added to the wiki
15:25:20 [clapierre1]
15:25:50 [tzviya]
ack cl
15:26:23 [bjdmeest]
clapierre: for a11y, we have some outstanding issues with
15:26:31 [bjdmeest]
... I could personally set something up
15:27:03 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I'm not sure is meeting, the relevant people will probably be there
15:27:13 [bjdmeest]
... I'm not sure all DPUB people need to be there
15:27:29 [bjdmeest]
Topic: Use Cases
15:27:31 [ivan]
B.t.w. the current schedule at TPAC:
15:27:43 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I assigned some sections to some people
15:28:02 [bjdmeest]
... I'm hoping in the next two weeks, assigned people will do so
15:28:11 [bjdmeest]
... if you can't work on this, please speak up
15:28:43 [bjdmeest]
... doing this only via phone calls took a long time
15:29:03 [bjdmeest]
... looking at the agenda, most of these things are things you have already worked on
15:29:25 [bjdmeest]
... it's mostly about checking that the document properly reflects your work
15:29:33 [tzviya]
15:29:47 [ivan]
15:30:09 [astearns]
astearns has changed the topic to: Aug 1st agenda:
15:30:20 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I assigned introduction to Hugh McGuire
15:30:26 [boris_]
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15:30:41 [bjdmeest]
... changing states and locators, I've assigned to Ben and Leonard
15:30:51 [bjdmeest]
... both are pretty robust
15:31:15 [pkra]
present+ peter krautzberger
15:31:18 [bjdmeest]
... locators is little bit weaker than changing states, but both of you have worked on the locators taks force
15:31:53 [bjdmeest]
... and about the locators section, maybe check whether they should be merged, and whether the annotations should stay
15:32:51 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: I think we do need use cases around annotations, but they need some cleanup
15:33:05 [bjdmeest]
... because some use cases are specific to dpub
15:33:16 [bjdmeest]
ivan: we already published a doc specific to annotations
15:33:25 [bjdmeest]
... it's worth looking into
15:33:37 [bjdmeest]
... we should refer to that
15:33:57 [tzviya]
annotation use cases for dpub:
15:34:16 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: I was going into the other direction: maybe it's worth revisiting the (old) doc, and update in the new document
15:35:03 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: Leonard and Ben are sensible people, they can work together ;)
15:35:36 [bjdmeest]
... about the next section
15:35:39 [tzviya]
present+ BillK
15:36:11 [bjdmeest]
BillKasdorf: If I could have a little more time (Laurent is probably on vacation anyway), it could be done
15:36:24 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: the next section is for me and Ivan
15:36:53 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: archiving: most of the work is done, but I'm concerned some discussion of the working group is missing
15:37:03 [bjdmeest]
... I'll send an email to them
15:37:28 [bjdmeest]
... a11y: charles and deborah
15:37:54 [bjdmeest]
... I think the current use cases can be cleaned a bit, there were some additional ones I though
15:38:28 [bjdmeest]
... css: dave and brady
15:38:47 [bjdmeest]
brady_duga: we can switch work, me this week, Dave next week
15:39:05 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: it's a bit of a confusing section atm
15:39:12 [bjdmeest]
... if there's stuff that needs to be added, you can add it
15:39:50 [bjdmeest]
... some of the sections might be already covered, and it could be you need to delete the section
15:40:10 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: the last section, other and misc, we should clean this up
15:40:29 [bjdmeest]
... hopefully, all these things can be either out of scope or merged into other sections
15:40:32 [tzviya]
15:40:35 [bjdmeest]
... any volunteer to help Heather?
15:41:03 [bjdmeest]
ShaneM: Heather has done really a lot, I'll help
15:41:30 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: in the end, we'll hand it over to Heather for a final version
15:41:43 [bjdmeest]
... timeframe is to be done in 3-4 weeks, so we could publish before TPAC
15:42:01 [bjdmeest]
... I have a list of names now
15:42:06 [bjdmeest]
... we'll see what happens
15:42:14 [garth]
Upcoming meetings?
15:42:34 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: what would we like to discuss next week?
15:42:54 [bjdmeest]
ivan: I would like to hear back from the archival people
15:42:57 [lrosenth]
15:43:37 [tzviya]
ack lr
15:43:37 [bjdmeest]
... I don't know that world
15:44:18 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: the archival task force did report back to the main, but we could replay that
15:44:32 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I think we never heard the final update, I'll ping Tim
15:44:55 [bjdmeest]
... we also didn't hear from the Web Annotation WG
15:45:06 [bigbluehat]
15:45:32 [bjdmeest]
ivan: benjamin and I could do that
15:46:27 [bjdmeest]
garth: I also though about spending time fleshing out the topics for TPAC with the other groups
15:46:40 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: I also suspect updates about DPUB ARIA
15:47:03 [tzviya]
15:47:07 [bjdmeest]
... there is a task force forming between CSS and AIRA, to create a CSS A11Y mapping
15:47:12 [bjdmeest]
... see above statement
15:47:30 [bjdmeest]
... e.g., have an a11y fallback for generated content
15:47:38 [boris_]
15:47:42 [tzviya]
ack boris
15:48:10 [bjdmeest]
boris_: just looking through the use case doc
15:48:43 [lrosenth]
15:48:46 [bjdmeest]
... has there been any talk about requirements about having a collection of books?
15:48:56 [ivan]
+100000 to Boris
15:49:02 [bjdmeest]
... do we need to think about systems to manage collections?
15:49:29 [bjdmeest]
... e.g., take-down services, URIs,... there might be some use cases there
15:49:31 [bigbluehat]
huge +1 to Boris
15:49:50 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: certainly feel free to add use cases
15:50:32 [bjdmeest]
ivan: I can help for any practicalities
15:51:07 [bjdmeest]
boris_: my background is in Interaction design, product design, experience architecture, did some stuff on libraries, so have some experience there
15:51:10 [tzviya]
ack lr
15:51:24 [lrosenth]
15:51:43 [bjdmeest]
???: the a11y on Open Education Resourcers (OER) is super important
15:51:49 [tzviya]
OER= open education resources
15:51:54 [ivan]
15:51:54 [clapierre1]
15:51:56 [tzviya]
15:52:20 [bjdmeest]
lrosenth: I strongly recommend to read the section about locations, that is probably very related to your concerns
15:52:43 [bjdmeest]
... also: this is not about just books, we should make something that works for any kind of publication
15:52:54 [bjdmeest]
... magasins, christmas card, ...
15:53:03 [bjdmeest]
boris_: I totally agree
15:53:04 [ivan]
15:53:12 [tzviya]
15:53:18 [bjdmeest]
tzviya: [adjourn]
15:53:22 [bjdmeest]
... happy writing!
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15:53:28 [garth]
Thanks Tzviya!
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16:07:51 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ivan
16:08:03 [ivan]
trackbot, end telcon
16:08:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:08:03 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, duga, garth, Chris_Maden, ivan, Ben_De_Meester, Charles_LaPierre, BorisAnthony, astearns, Avneesh, George_Kerscher, Karen,
16:08:06 [Zakim]
... Benjamin_Young, Bert, ShaneM, nickbarreto, david_stroup, peter, krautzberger, BillK
16:08:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:08:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
16:08:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:08:12 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items