16:59:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
16:59:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/26-social-irc
16:59:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:59:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
16:59:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:59:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:59:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:59:25 <trackbot> Date: 26 July 2016
16:59:34 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Next meeting: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-07-26 IRC logs: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today
17:00:04 <tantek> heads-up: Evan is supposed to chair today per our regular schedule from the home page
17:00:19 <tantek> unless Arnaud is able to swap back for him since Evan chaired for Arnaud last week
17:00:24 <sandro> present+
17:00:31 <ben_thatmustbeme> present+
17:00:32 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message on 2015-03-09 at 11:41pm UTC: yes thank you for the reminder re: chairing tomorrow. updated: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-10
17:00:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> wat?
17:00:55 <aaronpk> oh man haha
17:01:00 <aaronpk> i fixed the !tells
17:01:01 <Loqi> awesome
17:01:04 <aaronpk> present+
17:01:29 <tantek> present+
17:02:10 <eprodrom> About to join
17:02:47 <eprodrom> present+
17:03:09 <cwebber2> present+
17:03:41 <eprodrom> Arnaud: are you in?
17:04:08 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Future_Meetings
17:04:10 <annbass> annbass has joined #social
17:04:50 <rhiaro> present+
17:05:08 <eprodrom> scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:05:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribe: Ben Roberts
17:05:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> yep
17:05:22 <eprodrom> chair: eprodrom
17:05:25 <csarven> present+
17:05:34 <annbass> present+
17:05:45 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #social
17:05:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> Topic: approval of last weeks meetings
17:05:49 <dmitriz> present+
17:06:00 <eprodrom> TOPIC: Minutes for last week
17:06:17 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: accept https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-07-19-minutes as minutes for meeting of 2016-07-19
17:06:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> if youl have a moment please review the minutes
17:06:55 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i think there was an action to clear out the AS2 issues, but i'm not sure it got formalized in any way
17:06:56 <eprodrom> +1
17:06:58 <rhiaro> +1
17:07:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I think hte minutes are pretty good though
17:07:05 <cwebber2> +1
17:07:10 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:07:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> s/hte/the/
17:07:31 <annbass> +1
17:07:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: if you have a opinion on the minutes please chime in
17:07:45 <csarven> +1
17:08:05 <tantek> +1 looks good
17:08:07 <eprodrom> RESOLVED: accept https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-07-19-minutes as minutes for meeting of 2016-07-19
17:08:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: lets mark that as resolved and move on
17:08:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i have one admin item i'd like to move up here
17:08:43 <eprodrom> TOPIC: reducing meeting frequency during August
17:09:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: we have done this during vacation periods before.  During late july, early aug, people tend to be on vacation on lot
17:09:30 <rhiaro> q+
17:09:35 <eprodrom> ack rhiaro
17:09:45 <KevinMarks> KevinMarks has joined #social
17:09:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... so this is a good argument for reducing meetings, but we are on a limited schedule
17:10:18 <KevinMarks> present
17:10:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> rhiaro: If we move to bi-weekly formal meetings, i would suggest having informal Social Web Protocols meeting
17:10:23 <KevinMarks> present+
17:10:31 <cwebber2> I'm for that if others are interested
17:10:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> rhiaro: just to make sure things keep moving until september as we have a lot of work to do
17:10:50 <tantek> q+ to just note he'll be out Aug 9 and 16
17:10:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: that sounds like a great way to lessen our load while still moving forward
17:10:58 <eprodrom> ack tantek
17:10:58 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to just note he'll be out Aug 9 and 16
17:11:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i think thats probably a good suggestion.  i have a few dates that i'll be away (listed in IRC)
17:11:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we have 5 telcons scheduled in august now.
17:12:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: how about we do the 2nd and the 23rd and have a two week gap
17:12:31 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: only hold formal WG telecons on Aug 2 and Aug 23 2016
17:12:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: so cancelling 9th, 16th, and 30th
17:12:54 <sandro> +1 works for me
17:12:56 <tantek> +1
17:12:56 <eprodrom> +1
17:12:59 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: and those would be good times for informal meetings
17:13:02 <aaronpk> +1
17:13:03 <cwebber2> +1 assuming we do the informal meetings
17:13:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:13:05 <rhiaro> +1 assuming we can have inbetweeny meetings for spec editors
17:13:10 <KevinMarks> +1
17:13:17 <sandro> (not sure I can make the 23rd)
17:13:52 <annbass_> annbass_ has joined #social
17:13:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: looks like sandro and tantek may be out for the 23rd. i think it would be bad to have 4 weeks off
17:14:03 <annbass_> +1
17:14:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: if i'm not chairing, i can at least listen in
17:14:20 <eprodrom> RESOLVED: only hold formal WG telecons on Aug 2 and Aug 23 2016
17:14:55 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: does that put Arnaud to chairing the 23rd?
17:15:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: yes, and i'm his backup
17:15:15 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: great, lets move on to our actual work for this week
17:15:26 <eprodrom> julien?
17:15:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: welcoming Julien
17:15:37 <rhiaro> He said in email he'd be here
17:16:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: if not, the topic may not be worthwhile, he said he would be here, but he may have had trouble getting on to IRC
17:16:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... if anyone wants to try on that email thread to contact him, maybe he will come in later
17:16:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: AS2 status
17:17:03 <tantek> chair: tantek
17:17:05 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: that is going to be me mostly just talking.  tantek could you chair this segment
17:17:40 <eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues
17:17:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... when we talked last week, we had a number of outstanding issues around internationalization that were in various states
17:18:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... most of them have been resolved, the ones that have not been resolved are because there is some disagreement
17:18:21 <eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/337
17:18:48 <eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/344
17:19:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... one thats awaiting approval but i think was resolved.  337 was resolved to commenter's specifications.  one of them is one that james objected to (344) so we are waiting for commenter.  thats an editorial issue of where we include certain properties
17:19:28 <eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/341
17:20:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there was one important normative one that we resolved through consensus (341) we did get feedback from jsnell and he was in agreement with the last proposal so there were no more objections to it
17:20:13 <eprodrom> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/338
17:20:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we had one non-editorial, normative change that is still outstanding.  I would like some guidance from the group on it (338)
17:20:43 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... the issue is around the name property
17:21:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... everything in AS2 has a name, it was originally title, then display-name, then we resolved it to name.   the previous versions of this property have not allowed HTML in the property.
17:22:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... this would be for things like name of a video, title of a photo, etc. etc. etc.   This likely comes from ATOM, which discouraged putting markup in the title property
17:23:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there is the stylistic of being similar to html, not having markup in the page title.  The nice thing is for out-of-band display of an object
17:23:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... so you could just use name and know that you do not have markup
17:23:25 <KevinMarks> atom title can have markup, fwiw
17:23:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there would be some advantage for internationalization
17:23:54 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... yes KevinMarks, you can, but you have to add some extra tags
17:23:59 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... but the default is not to do it
17:24:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i think its also possible to do it with HTML, but it gets badly rendered
17:24:28 <eprodrom> name: "My recipe for gazpacho"
17:24:31 <KevinMarks> tantek used to confuse Reader by putting xhtml in his atom:title
17:24:52 <aaronpk> q+
17:24:52 <tantek> what KevinMarks means is that I would demonstrated bugs in Reader :P
17:25:02 <eprodrom> "My recipe for <span lang="en">gazpacho</span>"
17:25:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... the use came that came up was something like, "if you have a name like "my name is gazpacho'" its doesn't show that gazpacho is another language
17:25:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> you could do some extra markup for switching languages within a name
17:25:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... that is the motivation for adding markup to the name property
17:25:41 <tantek> q?
17:25:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there is also the question of doing directionality
17:25:42 <KevinMarks> s/en/es/
17:26:05 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there is also a way to do this in UTF8
17:26:24 <eprodrom> q?
17:26:36 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... its possible to do directionality without markup, its not possible to do language without markup
17:26:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: let me stop you for a second there for aaron
17:26:56 <tantek> s/aaron/evan
17:27:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i wanted to mention i had a siimilar issue against micropub, and i think the example you gave is not the core issue, its mostly about the directionality of text
17:27:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... the problem comes up where you have both directions , left to right and right to left within the same string
17:27:42 <aaronpk> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/inline-bidi-markup/uba-basics.en
17:28:45 <KevinMarks> "I pronounce <span lang="vi">Phở tái </span> like French for armchair, <span lang="fr">fauteil</span> "
17:28:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... heres a link to a draft that has been written up on this.  the better issue on this is punctuation when it switches direction like a quote in text, and the punctuation in it needs extra data
17:29:37 <sandro> screen readers care about the language, I believe.....
17:29:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... the solution in micropub was you define a base directionality and there isn't much use to doing it on the word, but there is actual reasoning to directionality on punctuation.   hopefully that gives some background to it as its pretty unfamilliar to many of us
17:30:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> annbass: has it been solved elsewhere?
17:30:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: only in HTML as you can specify directionality of any block
17:30:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: thats a problem in every json format then really
17:30:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: its a string encoding issue
17:31:03 <sandro> Example from that document, live:  http://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/inline-bidi-markup/uba-basics-data/isolation
17:31:05 <annbass> Richard Ishida = r12a
17:31:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... there is one question i'm asking him about, there is a unicode character for right-to-left-mark, and i'm asking to see if thats sufficient for it
17:31:32 <eprodrom> 'It will force people to convert to or use control characters for inline bidirectional controls, and will prevent inline annotation for language change.'
17:31:42 <annbass> W3C Team leader for Internationalization (i18n) ... world expert on i18n in web technologies
17:32:00 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... this was all on the micropub issue.  i would suggest reading the intro that was written there
17:32:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> .... i would suspect he's not really asking for markup in the name, but asking for directionality to be solved
17:32:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i think he is actually asking for it, its in the title of the issue...
17:32:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i think he's asking "why its not there" not actually "asking for it" which is very different
17:33:11 <ben_thatmustbeme> annbass: have you talked to him?
17:33:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i didn't realize this was an issue on as2 as well
17:33:46 <csarven> W3C Web Annotation WG uses `oa:textDirection` with values like oa:ltr or oa:rtl. That however is for the subject.
17:33:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: whats odd about this is that this is an issue on any string encoding
17:33:55 <csarven> .. that is not for a particular property
17:34:19 <csarven> https://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-vocab/#textdirection
17:34:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... so i'm a little frustrated by it being brought up like its asking us to solve the problem for everyone else
17:34:27 <Loqi> [Robert Sanderson] Web Annotation Vocabulary
17:34:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: well there is a solution, use html
17:34:38 <annbass> that's my point, Tantek .. if this is a problem that needs a global solution, maybe a small team could work on ... including others from i18n and whatever other groups
17:34:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: we do use html in other properties, its just we don't allow it in this case
17:35:03 <cwebber2> q+
17:35:08 <tantek> ack aaronpk
17:35:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... from my POV the burden is put on implementers to have to sanitize it though
17:35:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... its non-trivial vs a stirng that you can just HTML escape and just show on a webpage
17:35:34 <tantek> q+ to note that we tried this for Atom with entry title with markup, and implementations failed to get interop.
17:35:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... it would be putting a lot of AS2 consumers, for what seems to be only two use-cases
17:36:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: to be clear, i am in favor of not having HTML, but its an issue that would be possible to solve later
17:36:29 <cwebber2> relevant comic https://xkcd.com/1137/
17:36:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> (back and forth about what the commentor actually wanted, including quoting the issue)
17:36:50 <sandro> :-)  :-) cwebber2
17:37:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber2++
17:37:06 <Loqi> cwebber2 has 67 karma
17:37:06 <tantek> cwebber2++ wow
17:37:06 <Loqi> cwebber2 has 68 karma
17:37:08 <annbass> hehe
17:37:13 <eprodrom> "It will force people to convert to or use control characters for inline bidirectional controls, and will prevent inline annotation for language change."
17:38:05 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: he seems to think thats sub-optimal but could work.  but would not work for language change
17:38:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i'm not sure about this.  it sounds like what you are saying we should do.... (incomplete thoughts)
17:38:54 <tantek> q?
17:38:56 <eprodrom> http://w3c.github.io/activitystreams/core/#naturalLanguageValues
17:38:57 <tantek> ack cwebber
17:38:58 <Loqi> [James M Snell] Activity Streams 2.0
17:39:00 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: cwebber has been on the queue
17:39:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber2: i agree with evan that it does raise the level of work for implementors
17:39:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i've certainly seen plenty of implementers just use the title and assume no html
17:40:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i also wonder, is the Unicode RTL method composable in HTML and whether or not that would make any impact
17:40:30 <tantek> q?
17:40:39 <tantek> ack tantek
17:40:39 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to note that we tried this for Atom with entry title with markup, and implementations failed to get interop.
17:41:38 <cwebber2> that's a good point
17:41:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: this whole, embedding markup in names thing actually made it in to the atom spec, i don't know why, but it did.  so i tried putting that in my website just to test it across everything.  the end result was that there was almost no readers that supported
17:41:52 <KevinMarks> or they did support it and it blew up their layout - when you put an <h2> in it
17:42:10 <sandro> +1 try giving that answer, maybe in spec
17:42:31 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... it led to bad interop on that property.  so i would say to push-back strongly saying that it leads to bad interop
17:43:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i notice that a bunch of these are novel things, that is to say, its not really a criticism of this spec, no spec really supports that
17:43:37 <tantek> q?
17:43:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... if you look at any existing APIs in the social space, and i'll bet you will find none who support this
17:43:47 <eprodrom> +1
17:43:53 <cwebber2> yeah +1 as well
17:44:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... so you could push back saying that if its such a strong use-case, why has no company had to deal with this before?
17:44:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: i think thats a reasonable response, but it might be worth noting in the spec why thats not supported
17:44:30 <annbass> q+
17:45:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i'd be happy to maybe add this in our description of the name property, give a quick gloss on why it does not support HTML markup.  for historical reasons, implementator experience, etc
17:45:25 <annbass> q-
17:45:28 <KevinMarks> mf2 can do this, but it isn't common http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cp+class%3D%22e-name%22%3E%22I+pronounce+%3Cspan+lang%3D%22vi%22%3EPh%E1%BB%9F+t%C3%A1i%3C%2Fspan%3E+like+French+for+armchair%2C+%3Cspan+lang%3D%22fr%22%3Efauteil%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E+&pretty=on
17:45:30 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: and a work-around of saying you can always put that markup down in some body-ish
17:45:36 <tantek> q+ to note that not even HTML <title> allows nested markup :P
17:45:57 <eprodrom> http://w3c.github.io/activitystreams/core/#naturalLanguageValues
17:46:00 <Loqi> [James M Snell] Activity Streams 2.0
17:46:06 <annbass> I think it is important to acknowledge the issue, but with explanations such as being discussed to say why we didn't solve it
17:46:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i'd be happy to do that.  is it possible for us to do this.... the suggestion that aaron made, i think james has already addressed in 4.7.1.1
17:46:13 <eprodrom> "Because the name (and corresponding `nameMap`) property does not permit HTML markup, the Unicode Bidirectional Control characters [ BIDI] may be used to identify text direction:"
17:46:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: I think that should probably be sufficient
17:46:43 <annbass> if we spoke Arabic or Hebrew, we'd probably be more sensitive to the issue
17:46:43 <tantek> q?
17:46:58 <tantek> annbass that sounds hypothetical
17:46:59 <eprodrom> "Explain why there's no markup in 'name' in the vocabulary document"
17:47:03 <tantek> ack tantek
17:47:03 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to note that not even HTML <title> allows nested markup :P
17:47:31 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i wanted to bring up one more thing.  the HTML <title> tag itself does not allow markup
17:47:32 <KevinMarks> because title is not in body.
17:47:38 <annbass> (I was just expressing my thoughts; not proposing text for summary)
17:47:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i would suggest we could go further and say MUST NOT add markup to the title
17:48:05 <annbass> q+
17:48:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... json-apis don't do it, html doesn't do it. etc
17:48:26 <eprodrom> +1 to tantek's point
17:48:30 <tantek> ack annbass
17:48:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... and bounce it back to i18n, to say thay have a lot more work if they are just going to try to push this in to random specs
17:48:56 <cwebber2> well
17:49:00 <cwebber2> it's probably a very hard problem
17:49:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> annbass: my concern is that its a catch-22, if you say 'others don't do it, so we won't'
17:49:14 <cwebber2> so I'm not sure that it's the fault of other groups
17:49:19 <cwebber2> I agree to annbass' wording
17:49:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: its not a catch-22, its their job to define how to do it
17:50:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-07-19]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99034&oldid=99010
17:50:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-07-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99033&oldid=0
17:50:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99041&oldid=98988
17:50:02 <Loqi> Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-07-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99035&oldid=99033
17:50:04 <Loqi> Eprodrom made 3 edits to [[Socialwg/2016-07-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99040&oldid=99035
17:50:04 <Loqi> Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-07-26]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99038&oldid=99036
17:50:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> annbass: I think its better to at least accept that its an issue, but its not something we are going to solve in this group
17:50:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i'm saying that if it was a problem, then it is a global problem, but given that every implementation for social space have not hit this issue, then i would qustion that the problem exists
17:51:08 <aaronpk> https://blog.twitter.com/2012/right-to-left-languages-on-twitter
17:51:26 <annbass> +1 on Sandro's point
17:51:30 <annbass> q-
17:51:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: can i suggest that we step back from this issue, and its not something we want to deal with in this group and just say that there is some historical reasons for not doing it right now, we are not going to push that ball  uphill
17:51:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: sandro would you like to propose a resolution so we can push this through
17:53:06 <sandro> PROPOSED: We reply to r12a about as#338 and micropub #37 saying that we don't do HTML in these fields because implementation experience as with atom has shown it's too hard to implement / doesn't get implemented, and we think it's more important to have consistency
17:53:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i'm only going to point out that in micropub #37 that he never asks for html in the property
17:54:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i did find the unicode control characters for this so i responded with that but have not heard back yet
17:54:27 <KevinMarks> fwiw, feedparser has test cases for atom with html titles in all 3 modes
17:54:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... my suggestion is to note that HTML is not the solution for that, in case that comes up
17:54:47 <aaronpk> this is a great post describing how twitter solved it https://blog.twitter.com/2012/right-to-left-support-for-twitter-mobile in short, they detect the number of RTL vs LTR chars and set the base text direction accordingly.
17:54:49 <sandro> PROPOSED: We reply to r12a about as#338 (and as far as it applies to micropub #37) saying that we don't do HTML in these fields because implementation experience as with atom has shown it's too hard to implement / doesn't get implemented, and we think it's more important to have consistent interop
17:55:03 <aaronpk> +1
17:55:05 <tantek> +1
17:55:07 <sandro> +1
17:55:08 <eprodrom> +1
17:55:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:55:48 <annbass> but it doesn't get at Aaron's point that r12a didn't ask for HTML
17:55:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: any objections to that?
17:55:54 <KevinMarks> +0
17:55:55 <rhiaro> 0
17:56:12 <annbass> I'm fine with making a statement .. just needs to be accurate re: what Richard asked
17:56:30 <annbass> 0
17:56:42 <aaronpk> annbass, it's fine, we're not proposing closing the micropub issue with this
17:56:48 <annbass> ok
17:57:04 <annbass> could we work with Richard to find accurate language?
17:57:09 <cwebber2> oh
17:57:10 <cwebber2> +1
17:57:14 <eprodrom> annbass: yes we can
17:57:28 <cwebber2> with annbass wording though
17:57:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: given that we have given it a few minutes, and we have several +1s, lets declare this resolved to give a good consensus
17:57:43 <sandro> RESOLVED: We reply to r12a about as#338 (and as far as it applies to micropub #37) saying that we don't do HTML in these fields because implementation experience as with atom has shown it's too hard to implement / doesn't get implemented, and we think it's more important to have consistent interop
17:57:55 <tantek> chair: eprodrom
17:58:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i'll do the response to richard and other additions
17:59:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we only have 2 miniutes left, i see 2 options, we defer micropug #36 to next week or we extend the meeting a little
17:59:14 <aaronpk> https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/36
17:59:18 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i'd like to get the group to look at this its, short
17:59:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: lets extend a little
17:59:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: micropub issue 36
18:00:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: this is likely something that applies to other APIs, etc.  it is basically about the error messages not containing anything for directionality, etc
18:00:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... my proposal is that this is out of the oauth 2.0 spec that says these are specifically for developers and not user-facing
18:01:19 <tantek> sounds like a reasonable proposal
18:01:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> so i would specifically like to add that wording and that we specifically don't have a method for localizing those
18:01:24 <annbass> +1
18:01:47 <tantek> sounds like we could use a PROPOSED for that?
18:01:56 <tantek> q?
18:01:59 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: Adopt OAuth 2.0 language for error message purpose and defer any localization of error messages
18:02:00 <tantek> q=0
18:02:05 <tantek> q=
18:02:07 <tantek> q=
18:02:20 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: Adopt OAuth 2.0 language for error message purpose and defer any localization of error messages in API result
18:02:23 <tantek> q- rests, his
18:02:31 <eprodrom> ROPOSED: Adopt OAuth 2.0 language for error message purpose and defer any localization of error messages in API results
18:02:32 <aaronpk> +1
18:02:44 <tantek> +1
18:02:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
18:02:46 <eprodrom> +1
18:02:56 <cwebber2> +0
18:02:57 <KevinMarks> +1
18:03:08 <sandro> +1
18:03:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: if we could get some votes on that
18:03:12 <Loqi> nice
18:03:13 <rhiaro> +0
18:03:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: I don't see any -1s so i'm going to mark this as resolved
18:03:46 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: Adopt OAuth 2.0 language for error message purpose and defer any localization of error messages in API results
18:03:49 <rhiaro> +0 because I don't know enough, not unenthusiastic.. deferring to editor :)
18:03:54 <tantek> +1
18:04:11 <eprodrom> RESOLVED: Adopt OAuth 2.0 language for error message purpose and defer any localization of error messages in API results
18:04:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> what date are we publishing PTD, JF2, etc?
18:04:43 <annbass> thanks a lot Evan and Ben!
18:04:48 <annbass> and Tantek too
18:04:54 <eprodrom> trackbot, end meeting
18:04:54 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:04:54 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sandro, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, tantek, eprodrom, cwebber, rhiaro, csarven, annbass, dmitriz, KevinMarks
18:04:56 <tantek> ben_thatmustbeme: today if we can
18:05:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:05:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/26-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:05:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:05:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:05:03 <tantek> sandro are you around to help?"