12:02:31 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:02:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-irc 12:03:22 sebastian has joined #wot 12:04:27 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 12:06:30 zakim, pick a scribe 12:06:30 I don't who is present, kaz 12:07:01 present: Kaz, Sebastian, Daniel, Darko, Frank, Ryuichi, Xueqin, Yingying 12:07:03 zakim, pick a scribe 12:07:03 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kaz 12:07:13 scribenick: kaz 12:07:21 Meeting: Web of Things IG 12:08:18 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_20_July_2016 agenda 12:08:27 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_20_July_2016 12:09:00 sk: Matthias and Joerg are traveling, Johannes will join later 12:09:07 topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting 12:09:17 dsr has joined #wot 12:09:19 sk: some important points 12:09:31 ... there was a Comm TF call today 12:09:46 s/topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting// 12:10:00 ... IG deriverables 12:10:40 ... TPAC 12:10:49 ... implementation phase 12:10:53 ... next call 12:10:59 topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting 12:11:23 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html Day 1 minutes 12:11:30 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-minutes.html Day 2 minutes 12:11:37 ryuichi has joined #wot 12:12:12 kaz: will do the action from 13th on TPAC breakout 12:12:28 sk: demo room as well 12:13:02 ka: another item for Joerg to invite Scott Jensen from Google to the WoT IG call 12:13:15 s/kaz:/ka:/ 12:13:22 sk: will see his intention 12:14:04 sk: another item for Daniel to check with implementers about PlugFest participants 12:14:18 dp: some of them participated in PlugFest 12:14:33 ka: are you generating the list? 12:14:49 dp: already have a list and am generating messages to contact them 12:16:08 ka: we would like to invite Yongjing from Huawei to our call for the oneM2M discussion 12:16:45 ... will check the minutes to see some more possible actions 12:16:54 sk: ok 12:17:10 ... during the breakouts, we got proposals 12:17:25 ... the moderators should put the summary on the wiki 12:17:40 ... Panasonic have sent some slides 12:18:23 ka: maybe the moderators can put the summary on the GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/meeting-results/beijing-f2f 12:18:26 sk: right 12:18:36 ... or at least should add links to the wiki 12:19:00 sk: the meeting went very successful 12:19:11 ... we could show many interactions on different things from different companies 12:19:39 ... outcomes we discussed were good 12:20:04 ... regarding the PlugFest, having pictures and scenarios was great 12:20:24 ... all the participants should provide resources 12:21:08 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/wot-f2f/photos/ Photos from the Beijing meeting 12:21:15 ka: shares the link to the photos 12:21:33 maomao has joined #wot 12:21:33 sk: there was discussion on the template for the PlugFest demo 12:21:42 ... Taki has volunteered 12:21:59 ... we should use that template for the future PlugFests 12:22:40 ... people who are not sure about "WoT" have difficulty to understand our work 12:23:04 ... audience may be understand what the difference with the current situation 12:23:25 ... nice to show devices working together 12:23:38 ... but how to show the difference from the previous approaches? 12:24:00 dp: maybe we can start to list things and what the goal is 12:24:08 ... for each bullet item 12:24:22 sk: can show some slides 12:24:27 q+ 12:24:37 ... (shows "PlugFest Scenario" slides) 12:25:00 ... we showed 3 different scenarios 12:25:11 ... also the 4th scenario with Lemonbeat 12:25:37 ... scenario 1 - 'hello WoT' 12:25:48 ... scenario 2 - 'full WoT' 12:25:58 ... scenario 3 - 'mini automation' 12:26:11 ... these slides were presented to the audience 12:26:23 ... but quite hard to understand the background 12:26:44 Xueqin has joined #wot 12:26:50 ... so nice to have more projectors 12:27:00 ... one screen for one location 12:27:38 ryuichi has joined #wot 12:28:17 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html#item06 Next PlugFest Prep 12:28:26 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 12:28:39 present+ DarkoAnicic 12:28:54 sebastian has joined #wot 12:29:14 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html#item06 Next PlugFest Prep 12:29:52 ka: we had discussion on next PlugFest preparation on the first Day 12:30:14 dp: we can project multiple scenes on the big wall 12:30:20 q? 12:30:26 dsr has joined #wot 12:30:35 sk: it depends on the infrastructure of the TPAC venue 12:30:37 q? 12:30:39 ack y 12:30:45 Chair: Sebastian 12:31:21 yc: comments on PlugFest 12:31:33 ... people were wondering about what PlugFest was like 12:31:59 ... would be good to have description on what PlugFest is like and the demo scenarios beforehand 12:32:17 zakim, don't worry :) 12:32:17 I'm glad that smiley is there, kaz 12:32:35 sk: more than what s already documented 12:32:39 s/what s/what is/ 12:32:53 yc: the host required us for text beforehand 12:33:15 ... also summary document on PlugFest 12:33:29 ... what it's like and the purpose 12:33:52 q? 12:34:00 ... would be better to have that kind of information 12:34:15 sk: having more generic information would be a good idea 12:34:42 ... also what the benefit of "WoT" 12:34:54 ... thanks for the input 12:35:00 q+ 12:35:16 ack k 12:35:26 ka: who should generate that kind of information? 12:35:58 sk: each participant in PlugFest should do that 12:36:41 ... Joerg has already made proposal that each demo should have a poster 12:36:54 ... and the implementers should explain the scenario 12:37:59 ka: two directions: (1) detailed description on each demo and (2) primer introduction for PlugFest in general 12:38:19 da: we already have our Current Practices document as a resource 12:38:35 ... also Taki has volunteered to generate a template 12:38:46 sk: we should have a link on the wiki 12:39:28 ka: and Yingying's second point was providing introductory document to newcomers who are not familiar with our work 12:39:32 sk: ok 12:39:48 ... any other questions on the Beijing meeting? 12:40:23 ... please note that we had demonstrations by CETC including camera, robot, printer, etc. 12:40:31 ... nice to see what is going on 12:41:08 q+ 12:41:36 dape has joined #wot 12:41:36 xq: comment on the Beijing meeting 12:42:01 ... sent a document on Thing Description 12:42:20 ... will update the wiki tomorrow 12:42:26 da: tx 12:42:38 ... good idea to have your resource 12:42:49 ... I can put the link on the wiki for you 12:43:19 ka: I can do that as a W3C Team Contact 12:43:27 topic: Recap from today's Comm TF call 12:43:48 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-comm-minutes.html Comm call minutes (member-only) 12:44:05 yc: 4 topics 12:44:10 ... 1. Flyer 12:44:25 ... Dave will review the draft and then send it to the whole group 12:44:40 ... I'll generate some timeline for it till TPAC 12:45:03 ... 2. Liaison 12:45:45 ... Dave, myself, Daniel and Kaz will update the list 12:45:56 ->https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-ig/2016Jul/0002.html 12:46:18 ... regarding oneM2M, I sent a message on Yongjing's participation in our call to Matthias and am waiting for response 12:46:33 ... 3. Outreach for W3C Members for the WG Charter 12:46:39 ... 4. Events 12:46:52 ... Dave will create a Member wiki page on the events 12:47:01 ... that's all 12:47:15 sk: saw the email on oneM2M 12:47:33 ... good to have them on our call 12:47:42 yc: should be a dedicated web conf 12:47:57 sk: which day? 12:48:11 yc: the point is that they're holding their f2f meeting this week 12:48:30 ... so Yongjing would like our response urgently 12:48:46 sk: where is the meeting? which time zone? 12:48:49 yc: Montreal 12:48:55 ka: US Eastern 12:50:17 ... the conclusion from today's comm call was, asking Yongjing to talk with oneM2M guys first and get back to us with their feedback and join our call 12:50:32 sk: we have less participants today 12:50:56 ... so maybe we should have the joint call next week or after 12:51:27 ... would be good to have a call some time in the afternoon in Europe given the time difference 12:51:40 ... some morning time in Montreal 12:51:47 katsu has joined #wot 12:52:07 ka: let's wait for their response after Yingying sends a message 12:52:09 sk: ok 12:52:14 ... any other comments? 12:52:15 (none) 12:52:38 topic: IG Deriverables 12:52:52 sk: not sure when/which documents could be fixed 12:53:18 ... we have to discuss this next week when we have more participants 12:54:04 ka: maybe we can send an email to the editors and ask for their opinions 12:54:08 sk: sounds good 12:54:19 ka: can do that 12:54:33 topic: TPAC in Lisbon 12:54:46 sk: we've already talked about the possible demo room 12:54:51 ying_ying has joined #wot 12:55:33 ka: whole Wednesday? or just for the breakout session? 12:55:41 sk: should assume the whole day 12:55:58 ka: ok 12:56:03 masato has joined #wot 12:56:15 ... will ask about the possibility of a room for whole day Wednesday 12:57:01 topic: Feedback from implementation phase - Frank 12:58:00 fr: shows slides: Feedback from implementation phase 12:58:16 ... we'll have a WG for WoT 12:58:52 ... Building n-WoT-Stacks 12:59:04 ... and Implementing WoT Stacks 12:59:16 ... (The Embedded Marketplace) 12:59:36 ... 8/16 bit MCR are not at the end 12:59:42 ... many new products 13:00:03 ... (Which memory and performance is needed for the WoT stack?) 13:00:24 ... 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit 13:01:08 ... less memory like 16KB to 32, 64 and 128 13:01:53 ... even 384KB 13:02:07 ... (Flexibility of WoT-Stacks regarding device categories) 13:02:32 ... WoT Servient and WoT Client 13:02:39 Max has joined #wot 13:02:58 present: Katsuyoshi, Masato 13:03:14 ... what would be the appropriate size? 13:03:39 ... 128? 256? or 512? 13:04:00 ... next question is we'll have many WoT Clients 13:04:09 ... device memory is limited for clients 13:04:22 ... we have to make some requirements for systems 13:04:28 ... findings/questions: 13:04:35 ... high size of library needs memory 13:05:08 ... high memory requirement and powerful MCU reduce the coverage of WoT regarding IoT market volume 13:05:22 ... prices of future solutions must be lower than today 13:05:47 ... limited size of WoT-Stack (library) is needed (small is beautiful) 13:05:56 ... which size for individual device behavior 13:06:07 q+ 13:06:12 ... high coverage of devices is needed to fulfill WoT mission 13:06:15 q? 13:06:15 q? 13:06:24 sk: tx! 13:06:40 ... we have to take it account about MCU's memory size 13:06:47 ... very important topic 13:07:28 ... this kind of limitation, e.g., 32KB 13:07:47 ... important for the future WoT developer 13:07:55 fr: one comment 13:08:01 ... if you have a small client 13:08:07 ... for some small activity 13:08:23 ... maybe we can reduce the memory size 13:09:15 sk: what we can do for standardization is how we can make presentation 13:09:31 ... TD so far means streaming processing so far 13:09:46 ... we've been thinking about devices who are capable 13:10:23 ... optimized encoding for WoT applications might be needed 13:10:38 fr: not only binary but very challenge 13:10:51 ... we want to access various data silos 13:10:57 ... state machines 13:11:37 dp: profile for limited devices? 13:11:48 ... we already have considered some profiles 13:12:06 ... caused the library size limited 13:12:25 ... sometimes you don't need complicated profile depending your use case 13:12:50 ... we need to decide how to handle profiles on top of the basic layer 13:13:20 s/layer/stack/ 13:13:44 fr: not clear at the moment 13:13:52 ... questions? 13:13:57 q? 13:14:00 q? 13:14:04 ack dape 13:14:21 ack x 13:14:48 what's the problem? 13:15:53 ka: maybe we could add an item on memory/library size to the PlugFest template? 13:16:10 sk: MCUs have restricted resources 13:16:22 ... what is the balance? 13:16:45 ... good to think about the minimum resource the WoT Servient rely on 13:16:51 ... very difficult question 13:17:10 fr: could have something on the WG Charter? 13:17:49 sk: maybe you can generate some proposal? 13:17:57 fr: maybe after my vacation 13:18:29 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Roadmap wg roadmap 13:19:40 ka: please note that we can gather information on MCU requirements, but I don't think that would become a W3C Recommendation 13:20:48 ... probably this information should go part of the Current Practice document, e.g., an appendix section 13:21:16 dp: if it goes into the Current Practice document, we can discuss it separately from the WG work 13:21:19 ka: right 13:22:32 yingying_ has joined #wot 13:22:40 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-exi-profile-20140909/ EXI profile 13:23:26 ka: if we wanted to generate that kind of REC track document, we could do 13:23:37 ... but we need more discussion within the group 13:23:51 dp: also this document itself is a bit different from what Frank is suggesting 13:24:20 sk: let's continue the discussion 13:24:29 fr: will be on vacation next week 13:24:38 ... have some colleagues but not available next week 13:25:00 sk: ok 13:25:09 topic: Agenda for the next call 13:25:46 sk: overview of action items [Kaz] 13:26:01 q+ 13:26:13 ... WoT IG: deliverables closing, Editor for Tech Landscape 13:26:29 ... TPAC in Lisbon: demo room on Wed. 13:27:10 ... microcontroller implementations for the WG Charter? 13:28:06 dp: all the group participants are encouraged to share information/slides 13:28:14 sk: add that 13:28:19 q? 13:28:21 ack d 13:29:00 [ adjourned ] 13:29:03 rrsagent, make log public 13:29:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:29:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:29:21 yingying has joined #wot 13:31:42 yingying_ has joined #wot 14:14:58 dsr has joined #wot 15:15:25 dsr has joined #wot 15:37:11 Zakim has left #wot 15:50:04 Max has joined #wot 16:30:21 Karen_ has joined #wot 17:56:25 dsr has joined #wot 18:27:24 Max has joined #wot