IRC log of wot on 2016-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:02:31 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-irc
12:03:22 [sebastian]
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12:04:27 [DarkoAnicic]
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12:06:30 [kaz]
zakim, pick a scribe
12:06:30 [Zakim]
I don't who is present, kaz
12:07:01 [kaz]
present: Kaz, Sebastian, Daniel, Darko, Frank, Ryuichi, Xueqin, Yingying
12:07:03 [kaz]
zakim, pick a scribe
12:07:03 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kaz
12:07:13 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
12:07:21 [kaz]
Meeting: Web of Things IG
12:08:18 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_20_July_2016 agenda
12:08:27 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_20_July_2016
12:09:00 [kaz]
sk: Matthias and Joerg are traveling, Johannes will join later
12:09:07 [kaz]
topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting
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12:09:19 [kaz]
sk: some important points
12:09:31 [kaz]
... there was a Comm TF call today
12:09:46 [kaz]
s/topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting//
12:10:00 [kaz]
... IG deriverables
12:10:40 [kaz]
... TPAC
12:10:49 [kaz]
... implementation phase
12:10:53 [kaz]
... next call
12:10:59 [kaz]
topic: Recap Beijing f2f meeting
12:11:23 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html Day 1 minutes
12:11:30 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-minutes.html Day 2 minutes
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12:12:12 [kaz]
kaz: will do the action from 13th on TPAC breakout
12:12:28 [kaz]
sk: demo room as well
12:13:02 [kaz]
ka: another item for Joerg to invite Scott Jensen from Google to the WoT IG call
12:13:15 [kaz]
s/kaz:/ka:/
12:13:22 [kaz]
sk: will see his intention
12:14:04 [kaz]
sk: another item for Daniel to check with implementers about PlugFest participants
12:14:18 [kaz]
dp: some of them participated in PlugFest
12:14:33 [kaz]
ka: are you generating the list?
12:14:49 [kaz]
dp: already have a list and am generating messages to contact them
12:16:08 [kaz]
ka: we would like to invite Yongjing from Huawei to our call for the oneM2M discussion
12:16:45 [kaz]
... will check the minutes to see some more possible actions
12:16:54 [kaz]
sk: ok
12:17:10 [kaz]
... during the breakouts, we got proposals
12:17:25 [kaz]
... the moderators should put the summary on the wiki
12:17:40 [kaz]
... Panasonic have sent some slides
12:18:23 [kaz]
ka: maybe the moderators can put the summary on the GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/meeting-results/beijing-f2f
12:18:26 [kaz]
sk: right
12:18:36 [kaz]
... or at least should add links to the wiki
12:19:00 [kaz]
sk: the meeting went very successful
12:19:11 [kaz]
... we could show many interactions on different things from different companies
12:19:39 [kaz]
... outcomes we discussed were good
12:20:04 [kaz]
... regarding the PlugFest, having pictures and scenarios was great
12:20:24 [kaz]
... all the participants should provide resources
12:21:08 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/wot-f2f/photos/ Photos from the Beijing meeting
12:21:15 [kaz]
ka: shares the link to the photos
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12:21:33 [kaz]
sk: there was discussion on the template for the PlugFest demo
12:21:42 [kaz]
... Taki has volunteered
12:21:59 [kaz]
... we should use that template for the future PlugFests
12:22:40 [kaz]
... people who are not sure about "WoT" have difficulty to understand our work
12:23:04 [kaz]
... audience may be understand what the difference with the current situation
12:23:25 [kaz]
... nice to show devices working together
12:23:38 [kaz]
... but how to show the difference from the previous approaches?
12:24:00 [kaz]
dp: maybe we can start to list things and what the goal is
12:24:08 [kaz]
... for each bullet item
12:24:22 [kaz]
sk: can show some slides
12:24:27 [yingying_]
q+
12:24:37 [kaz]
... (shows "PlugFest Scenario" slides)
12:25:00 [kaz]
... we showed 3 different scenarios
12:25:11 [kaz]
... also the 4th scenario with Lemonbeat
12:25:37 [kaz]
... scenario 1 - 'hello WoT'
12:25:48 [kaz]
... scenario 2 - 'full WoT'
12:25:58 [kaz]
... scenario 3 - 'mini automation'
12:26:11 [kaz]
... these slides were presented to the audience
12:26:23 [kaz]
... but quite hard to understand the background
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12:26:50 [kaz]
... so nice to have more projectors
12:27:00 [kaz]
... one screen for one location
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12:28:17 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html#item06 Next PlugFest Prep
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present+ DarkoAnicic
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12:29:14 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-wot-minutes.html#item06 Next PlugFest Prep
12:29:52 [kaz]
ka: we had discussion on next PlugFest preparation on the first Day
12:30:14 [kaz]
dp: we can project multiple scenes on the big wall
12:30:20 [yingying_]
q?
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12:30:35 [kaz]
sk: it depends on the infrastructure of the TPAC venue
12:30:37 [kaz]
q?
12:30:39 [kaz]
ack y
12:30:45 [kaz]
Chair: Sebastian
12:31:21 [kaz]
yc: comments on PlugFest
12:31:33 [kaz]
... people were wondering about what PlugFest was like
12:31:59 [kaz]
... would be good to have description on what PlugFest is like and the demo scenarios beforehand
12:32:17 [kaz]
zakim, don't worry :)
12:32:17 [Zakim]
I'm glad that smiley is there, kaz
12:32:35 [kaz]
sk: more than what s already documented
12:32:39 [kaz]
s/what s/what is/
12:32:53 [kaz]
yc: the host required us for text beforehand
12:33:15 [kaz]
... also summary document on PlugFest
12:33:29 [kaz]
... what it's like and the purpose
12:33:52 [Xueqin]
q?
12:34:00 [kaz]
... would be better to have that kind of information
12:34:15 [kaz]
sk: having more generic information would be a good idea
12:34:42 [kaz]
... also what the benefit of "WoT"
12:34:54 [kaz]
... thanks for the input
12:35:00 [kaz]
q+
12:35:16 [kaz]
ack k
12:35:26 [kaz]
ka: who should generate that kind of information?
12:35:58 [kaz]
sk: each participant in PlugFest should do that
12:36:41 [kaz]
... Joerg has already made proposal that each demo should have a poster
12:36:54 [kaz]
... and the implementers should explain the scenario
12:37:59 [kaz]
ka: two directions: (1) detailed description on each demo and (2) primer introduction for PlugFest in general
12:38:19 [kaz]
da: we already have our Current Practices document as a resource
12:38:35 [kaz]
... also Taki has volunteered to generate a template
12:38:46 [kaz]
sk: we should have a link on the wiki
12:39:28 [kaz]
ka: and Yingying's second point was providing introductory document to newcomers who are not familiar with our work
12:39:32 [kaz]
sk: ok
12:39:48 [kaz]
... any other questions on the Beijing meeting?
12:40:23 [kaz]
... please note that we had demonstrations by CETC including camera, robot, printer, etc.
12:40:31 [kaz]
... nice to see what is going on
12:41:08 [Xueqin]
q+
12:41:36 [dape]
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12:41:36 [kaz]
xq: comment on the Beijing meeting
12:42:01 [kaz]
... sent a document on Thing Description
12:42:20 [kaz]
... will update the wiki tomorrow
12:42:26 [kaz]
da: tx
12:42:38 [kaz]
... good idea to have your resource
12:42:49 [kaz]
... I can put the link on the wiki for you
12:43:19 [kaz]
ka: I can do that as a W3C Team Contact
12:43:27 [kaz]
topic: Recap from today's Comm TF call
12:43:48 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-comm-minutes.html Comm call minutes (member-only)
12:44:05 [kaz]
yc: 4 topics
12:44:10 [kaz]
... 1. Flyer
12:44:25 [kaz]
... Dave will review the draft and then send it to the whole group
12:44:40 [kaz]
... I'll generate some timeline for it till TPAC
12:45:03 [kaz]
... 2. Liaison
12:45:45 [kaz]
... Dave, myself, Daniel and Kaz will update the list
12:45:56 [yingying_]
->https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-ig/2016Jul/0002.html
12:46:18 [kaz]
... regarding oneM2M, I sent a message on Yongjing's participation in our call to Matthias and am waiting for response
12:46:33 [kaz]
... 3. Outreach for W3C Members for the WG Charter
12:46:39 [kaz]
... 4. Events
12:46:52 [kaz]
... Dave will create a Member wiki page on the events
12:47:01 [kaz]
... that's all
12:47:15 [kaz]
sk: saw the email on oneM2M
12:47:33 [kaz]
... good to have them on our call
12:47:42 [kaz]
yc: should be a dedicated web conf
12:47:57 [kaz]
sk: which day?
12:48:11 [kaz]
yc: the point is that they're holding their f2f meeting this week
12:48:30 [kaz]
... so Yongjing would like our response urgently
12:48:46 [kaz]
sk: where is the meeting? which time zone?
12:48:49 [kaz]
yc: Montreal
12:48:55 [kaz]
ka: US Eastern
12:50:17 [kaz]
... the conclusion from today's comm call was, asking Yongjing to talk with oneM2M guys first and get back to us with their feedback and join our call
12:50:32 [kaz]
sk: we have less participants today
12:50:56 [kaz]
... so maybe we should have the joint call next week or after
12:51:27 [kaz]
... would be good to have a call some time in the afternoon in Europe given the time difference
12:51:40 [kaz]
... some morning time in Montreal
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12:52:07 [kaz]
ka: let's wait for their response after Yingying sends a message
12:52:09 [kaz]
sk: ok
12:52:14 [kaz]
... any other comments?
12:52:15 [kaz]
(none)
12:52:38 [kaz]
topic: IG Deriverables
12:52:52 [kaz]
sk: not sure when/which documents could be fixed
12:53:18 [kaz]
... we have to discuss this next week when we have more participants
12:54:04 [kaz]
ka: maybe we can send an email to the editors and ask for their opinions
12:54:08 [kaz]
sk: sounds good
12:54:19 [kaz]
ka: can do that
12:54:33 [kaz]
topic: TPAC in Lisbon
12:54:46 [kaz]
sk: we've already talked about the possible demo room
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12:55:33 [kaz]
ka: whole Wednesday? or just for the breakout session?
12:55:41 [kaz]
sk: should assume the whole day
12:55:58 [kaz]
ka: ok
12:56:03 [masato]
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12:56:15 [kaz]
... will ask about the possibility of a room for whole day Wednesday
12:57:01 [kaz]
topic: Feedback from implementation phase - Frank
12:58:00 [kaz]
fr: shows slides: Feedback from implementation phase
12:58:16 [kaz]
... we'll have a WG for WoT
12:58:52 [kaz]
... Building n-WoT-Stacks
12:59:04 [kaz]
... and Implementing WoT Stacks
12:59:16 [kaz]
... (The Embedded Marketplace)
12:59:36 [kaz]
... 8/16 bit MCR are not at the end
12:59:42 [kaz]
... many new products
13:00:03 [kaz]
... (Which memory and performance is needed for the WoT stack?)
13:00:24 [kaz]
... 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit
13:01:08 [kaz]
... less memory like 16KB to 32, 64 and 128
13:01:53 [kaz]
... even 384KB
13:02:07 [kaz]
... (Flexibility of WoT-Stacks regarding device categories)
13:02:32 [kaz]
... WoT Servient and WoT Client
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13:02:58 [kaz]
present: Katsuyoshi, Masato
13:03:14 [kaz]
... what would be the appropriate size?
13:03:39 [kaz]
... 128? 256? or 512?
13:04:00 [kaz]
... next question is we'll have many WoT Clients
13:04:09 [kaz]
... device memory is limited for clients
13:04:22 [kaz]
... we have to make some requirements for systems
13:04:28 [kaz]
... findings/questions:
13:04:35 [kaz]
... high size of library needs memory
13:05:08 [kaz]
... high memory requirement and powerful MCU reduce the coverage of WoT regarding IoT market volume
13:05:22 [kaz]
... prices of future solutions must be lower than today
13:05:47 [kaz]
... limited size of WoT-Stack (library) is needed (small is beautiful)
13:05:56 [kaz]
... which size for individual device behavior
13:06:07 [dape]
q+
13:06:12 [kaz]
... high coverage of devices is needed to fulfill WoT mission
13:06:15 [ying_ying]
q?
13:06:15 [kaz]
q?
13:06:24 [kaz]
sk: tx!
13:06:40 [kaz]
... we have to take it account about MCU's memory size
13:06:47 [kaz]
... very important topic
13:07:28 [kaz]
... this kind of limitation, e.g., 32KB
13:07:47 [kaz]
... important for the future WoT developer
13:07:55 [kaz]
fr: one comment
13:08:01 [kaz]
... if you have a small client
13:08:07 [kaz]
... for some small activity
13:08:23 [kaz]
... maybe we can reduce the memory size
13:09:15 [kaz]
sk: what we can do for standardization is how we can make presentation
13:09:31 [kaz]
... TD so far means streaming processing so far
13:09:46 [kaz]
... we've been thinking about devices who are capable
13:10:23 [kaz]
... optimized encoding for WoT applications might be needed
13:10:38 [kaz]
fr: not only binary but very challenge
13:10:51 [kaz]
... we want to access various data silos
13:10:57 [kaz]
... state machines
13:11:37 [kaz]
dp: profile for limited devices?
13:11:48 [kaz]
... we already have considered some profiles
13:12:06 [kaz]
... caused the library size limited
13:12:25 [kaz]
... sometimes you don't need complicated profile depending your use case
13:12:50 [kaz]
... we need to decide how to handle profiles on top of the basic layer
13:13:20 [kaz]
s/layer/stack/
13:13:44 [kaz]
fr: not clear at the moment
13:13:52 [kaz]
... questions?
13:13:57 [ying_ying]
q?
13:14:00 [kaz]
q?
13:14:04 [dape]
ack dape
13:14:21 [kaz]
ack x
13:14:48 [Xueqin]
what's the problem?
13:15:53 [kaz]
ka: maybe we could add an item on memory/library size to the PlugFest template?
13:16:10 [kaz]
sk: MCUs have restricted resources
13:16:22 [kaz]
... what is the balance?
13:16:45 [kaz]
... good to think about the minimum resource the WoT Servient rely on
13:16:51 [kaz]
... very difficult question
13:17:10 [kaz]
fr: could have something on the WG Charter?
13:17:49 [kaz]
sk: maybe you can generate some proposal?
13:17:57 [kaz]
fr: maybe after my vacation
13:18:29 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Roadmap wg roadmap
13:19:40 [kaz]
ka: please note that we can gather information on MCU requirements, but I don't think that would become a W3C Recommendation
13:20:48 [kaz]
... probably this information should go part of the Current Practice document, e.g., an appendix section
13:21:16 [kaz]
dp: if it goes into the Current Practice document, we can discuss it separately from the WG work
13:21:19 [kaz]
ka: right
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13:22:40 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-exi-profile-20140909/ EXI profile
13:23:26 [kaz]
ka: if we wanted to generate that kind of REC track document, we could do
13:23:37 [kaz]
... but we need more discussion within the group
13:23:51 [kaz]
dp: also this document itself is a bit different from what Frank is suggesting
13:24:20 [kaz]
sk: let's continue the discussion
13:24:29 [kaz]
fr: will be on vacation next week
13:24:38 [kaz]
... have some colleagues but not available next week
13:25:00 [kaz]
sk: ok
13:25:09 [kaz]
topic: Agenda for the next call
13:25:46 [kaz]
sk: overview of action items [Kaz]
13:26:01 [dape]
q+
13:26:13 [kaz]
... WoT IG: deliverables closing, Editor for Tech Landscape
13:26:29 [kaz]
... TPAC in Lisbon: demo room on Wed.
13:27:10 [kaz]
... microcontroller implementations for the WG Charter?
13:28:06 [kaz]
dp: all the group participants are encouraged to share information/slides
13:28:14 [kaz]
sk: add that
13:28:19 [kaz]
q?
13:28:21 [kaz]
ack d
13:29:00 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
13:29:03 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:29:07 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:29:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
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