12:58:53 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:58:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/15-dwbp-irc 12:58:55 RRSAgent, make logs 351 12:58:55 Zakim has joined #dwbp 12:58:57 Zakim, this will be DWBP 12:58:57 ok, trackbot 12:58:58 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 12:58:58 Date: 15 July 2016 13:00:02 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:00:11 present+ phila 13:01:15 yaso has joined #dwbp 13:02:15 present+ RiccardoAlbertoni 13:02:40 PWinstanley has joined #dwbp 13:03:01 present+ PWinstanley 13:04:21 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:04:34 deirdrelee has joined #dwbp 13:04:51 SumitPurohit has joined #DWBP 13:04:54 chair: yaso 13:04:55 yaso_ has joined #dwbp 13:05:13 present+ 13:05:14 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160715 13:05:20 newton has joined #dwbp 13:05:37 present+ deirdrelee 13:05:41 present+ newton 13:05:47 ericstephan has joined #dwbp 13:05:56 present+ ericstephan 13:06:06 annette_g has joined #dwbp 13:06:34 I apologize being late 13:06:55 no probem, eric 13:07:22 present+ hadleybeeman 13:07:30 Scribe? 13:07:43 zakim, pick a victim 13:07:43 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose deirdrelee 13:08:10 zakim, pick a victim 13:08:10 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose phila 13:08:15 zakim, pick a victim 13:08:15 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose RiccardoAlbertoni 13:08:36 Sorry, I'll have to dial again 13:09:12 present+ annette_g 13:09:17 Caroline_ has joined #DWBP 13:09:25 hadleybeeman has changed the topic to: agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160715 13:09:34 +1 13:10:12 present+ SumitPurohit 13:10:13 https://www.w3.org/2016/06/10-dwbp-minutes 13:10:27 propose approve the last meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160715 13:10:33 http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-dwbp-minutes 13:10:52 PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-dwbp-minutes 13:10:55 +1 13:10:59 +1 13:10:59 +1 13:11:03 Present+ Caroline_ 13:11:03 +1 13:11:06 +1 13:11:07 +1 13:11:12 +1 13:11:13 0 13:11:13 0 ( i was not there) 13:11:23 REOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-dwbp-minutes 13:11:27 REsOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-dwbp-minutes 13:11:30 +1 13:11:57 Topic: CR delay 13:12:02 -> http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-dwbp-minutes 13:12:12 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2016JulSep/0009.html I18N Objection 13:12:15 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:12:28 zakim, generate minutes 13:12:28 I don't understand 'generate minutes', deirdrelee 13:12:55 rrsagent, generate minutes 13:12:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/15-dwbp-minutes.html deirdrelee 13:13:25 phila: you suppose to ask review to the I18N, but they did not get the time to reply 13:14:31 phil is not sure to be in the next call with the director , which will be delayed, 13:15:13 .. we are not going to have the CR before the middle of august, as we have to wait for I18N and other stuff 13:15:16 q+ 13:15:16 EricKauz has joined #DWBP 13:15:28 ack Caroline 13:15:38 present+ EricKauz 13:15:49 q? 13:16:05 Caroline_: so we do not know when the call wth director will be reschedule. 13:16:19 phila: yes, 13:16:50 laufer has joined #dwbp 13:17:02 yaso: what about the summer vacation? 13:17:35 present+ laufer 13:18:07 q+ 13:18:11 phil: we will possibly have to have the call before september but we will find out 13:18:38 phil: we will ask for an extension for covering the delay 13:18:50 q? 13:18:54 +1 yes extra time is useful to DUV 13:19:01 and that will give also some extra time for the vocabularies 13:19:08 ack eric 13:19:37 +1 13:19:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#ReuseVocabularies reuse vocabs 13:20:12 ericstephan: i cannot imagine the kind of feedback from i18m, could you provide an example.. 13:20:28 q? 13:20:44 s/i18m/i18n 13:20:52 phil:probably issues about multilingualism, url etc 13:21:21 hadleybeeman: all the things they care about we care too 13:21:33 since we are people from different part of the world 13:21:42 q? 13:21:48 hadleybeeman: but we need to see what they have to say .. 13:22:09 yahoo: other questions about the process ? 13:22:16 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/open 13:22:16 topic: DQV 13:22:18 s/yahoo/yaso 13:22:19 Topic: Open issues on vocabularies 13:22:31 q+ 13:22:45 ack RiccardoAlbertoni 13:22:47 RiccardoAlbertoni: About the open issue re DQV, we have already discussed this. 13:22:51 issue-221? 13:22:51 issue-221 -- What is the importance of the alignment between hcls-dataset and dqv/duv? -- open 13:22:51 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/221 13:22:59 issue-223? 13:22:59 issue-223 -- Parameters for metrics -- open 13:22:59 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/223 13:23:24 RiccardoAlbertoni: re issue 223, we have added a section explaining how parameters can be addressed with DQV. 13:23:35 ...but we haven't found a solution, and it's probably out of scope for our work. 13:23:47 ...So Antoine and I have decided to mark this as 'postponed'. 13:23:59 ...Hopefully the commenter will find that okay. 13:24:18 ...The same approach is followed for issue 221. 13:24:22 I'd want to create two issues 13:24:26 ... from 221 13:24:33 q? 13:24:35 s/221/223 13:24:46 ... one we close, and one we postponed 13:25:04 RiccardoAlbertoni: in the future, we'd have to target specialised profiles of dcat according to special domains. But we think that is out of scope for this group. 13:25:33 q? 13:25:34 ...I know Antoine wants to wait to the end, to mark this issue as 'postponed' — maybe the people from stanford who raised this issue will have an update. 13:26:16 ...The point is, we have plenty of feedback from some people outside of the group. We are trying to address these comments. We welcome the idea of an extension for the group. 13:26:49 ...In the email, the commenters have sent a pull request on github, and we're not sure that a PR from someone outside the group can be merged. 13:26:59 ...From a procedural point of view, is that acceptable 13:27:06 s/acceptable/acceptable? 13:27:24 phila: Yes, as long as the group approves. If they write the text, we have to worry that it comes with their intellectual property. 13:27:37 q? 13:27:42 ...If they are endorsing or creating an opportunity for their technologies, we are in trouble. 13:27:57 RiccardoAlbertoni: No, I think they are just pointing out a simple fix. I don't see the problem you are mentioning here. 13:27:58 q+ 13:28:03 it's mostly editorial changes, I think 13:28:06 ack phila 13:28:10 ack me 13:28:27 phila: If I understand correctly, I think we can safely close issue 223? 13:28:42 RiccardoAlbertoni: We'd like to mark them as 'postponed' 13:29:04 ...In another group's CR, they had marked a pending issue as 'postponed' because it was out of scope. 13:29:14 q+ see my remark above 13:29:18 phila: 223 is postponed to a group that doesn't exist and isn't planned to exist. 13:29:39 ...the other one... We can mark it as 'postponed' and point specifically to the Vocabularies workshop in Amsterdam at the end of the year. 13:29:49 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/ Postpone 221 to that workshop 13:30:08 q? 13:30:13 RiccardoAlbertoni: Okay. 13:30:37 ...223 is postponed in principle? In the future when someone modifies DCAT might come up... 13:30:56 q+ 13:31:05 phila: if you think the DCAT workshop can handle it as well, we can pass a resolution here to say that both these issues are closed for this workshop but may be useful in future work. 13:31:11 ...I'm trying to tidy things up. 13:31:35 hadleybeeman: Does 'postponed' not mean it's still open? 13:31:47 phila: I think it means 'postponed within the lifetime of the working group' 13:31:57 q? 13:32:02 ack a 13:32:08 ack antoine 13:32:17 RiccardoAlbertoni: Antoine is not on the phone. 13:32:18 I have to do it by typing 13:32:21 we did partly fix 223 13:32:22 yaso: Antoine, if you can type,.. 13:32:25 ok 13:32:36 the solution was to split 223 in two issues 13:32:45 one that we close, one that we postpone 13:33:03 we postpone like other WGs postponed, like OWL 13:33:14 I've sent an email about it. 13:33:18 @antoine, what are the two issues you proposed? 13:33:37 I can do the splitting, once the WG tells it's ok in principle 13:33:44 PROPOSAL: Noting the partial fix for Issue-223 and the forthcoming SDSVoc workshop that will tackle both Issue 221 and 223, the WG should close those two issues, noting these on the WG homepage for future reference 13:34:11 sounds good 13:34:16 phila: That's my understanding of how you postpone something 13:34:23 hadleybeeman: Sounds good to me 13:34:27 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Main_Page#Wish_List Wish list 13:34:27 +1 13:34:29 +1 13:34:32 +1 13:34:33 +1 13:34:35 +1 13:34:38 +1 13:34:39 +1 13:34:39 +1 13:34:42 +1 13:34:42 +1 13:34:52 RESOLUTION: Noting the partial fix for Issue-223 and the forthcoming SDSVoc workshop that will tackle both Issue 221 and 223, the WG should close those two issues, noting these on the WG homepage for future reference 13:34:54 phila: We're not burying it or pretending it doesn't exist; we're putting it somewhere we can come back to it. 13:35:01 I think it needs to say PROPOSED and RESOLVED, though, no? 13:35:05 close issue-221 13:35:05 Closed issue-221. 13:35:11 close issue-223 13:35:11 Closed issue-223. 13:35:26 Correct annette_g 13:35:30 q? 13:35:31 can't we postpone 223? 13:35:41 I can do it using the web interface 13:35:47 yes 13:36:11 @antoine, we think we can only use that 'postpone' within the lifetime of this working group. We need to close our issues to transition further. 13:36:40 q? 13:37:15 hadleybeeman: I think we can postpone indefinitely: some OWL issues have been postponed for ages 13:37:24 see https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html 13:37:41 @antoine, phila is going to check... but that seems a bit out-of-process in my opinion (and his). We'll find out. 13:38:18 phila: Good to see comments coming in. 13:38:33 @hadleybeeman: ok. I don't want to put a lot of more work on the WG. To me it seemed like a simple proposal that I could have implemented myself. 13:38:56 RiccardoAlbertoni: We were ready to close everything by next week, but extra time lets us face the things in a positive way. 13:39:22 phila: Yes, we'll have the extension, I think. But I think the purpose of these weekly calls is now to finish these vocabularies. Chairs, stop me if I'm wrong. 13:39:43 ...Once we're into CR for the BP doc, we probably don't need these calls anymore. We won't need them much longer. 13:39:57 ...The last weekly call could be next week? It's up to the chairs. 13:40:14 ...I suspect it won't be that soon. But fairly soon they'll come to an end, when we run out of things to talk about. 13:40:44 ...When you've closed all the issues, and you're resolving the issues, and we're in CR for the other thing — these calls are here to discuss comments and actions. 13:40:53 q+ 13:41:02 ack RiccardoAlbertoni 13:41:13 ...Dn't see an extension til the end of Nov as meaning we can carry on postponing things till then. We can't. We have to finish this. 13:41:25 RiccardoAlbertoni: Okay; sooner is better. But we need a little time and this is a busy period 13:41:30 phila: I'm not at all criticising. 13:41:44 RiccardoAlbertoni: Depends on Antoine's schedule, but we can maybe close in the beginning of August? 13:41:48 phila: thanks 13:42:25 yaso: So extending the group doesn't mean we still have meetings? 13:42:52 phila: All we should be doing now is handling the comments. We'll get some new ones from I18N, and Open Annotation group commented today, so there is a bit of editing to do on the BP doc -- 13:43:07 ...and I hope we'll have time to hear about the DUV. But I imagine all this will be sorted quickly. 13:43:19 ...At the latest by September -- we'll have resolved everything. 13:43:37 yaso: And if the problems are all sorted before September, and the BP doc goes to CR, then the group is done with the work? 13:43:45 phila: apart from gathering implementation experience. 13:44:10 ...When we're doing that, and the vocabs are done, we don't need to meet every week. Maybe every other week, or every four weeks? We don't need to talk every Friday. 13:44:18 ...Given the state of the docs right now... this is what happens. 13:44:19 q? 13:44:27 yaso_: comments? 13:44:44 q+ 13:44:47 Nope 13:44:53 :-) 13:45:04 ack Newton 13:45:14 topic: DUV 13:45:32 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html 13:45:44 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/153 13:45:44 ericstephan: there are two issues 13:46:02 one is around form quite a while 13:46:17 s/form/from 13:46:38 ericstephan: 153... i do not think it is in the scope of the dub 13:46:44 q? 13:46:51 issue-153? 13:46:51 issue-153 -- Should open/closed data be addressed in the Data Usage Vocabulary? -- open 13:46:51 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/153 13:46:59 If anyone have a specific comment or opinion on that ? 13:47:00 How should feedback and usage instructions be handled that are either in themselves sensitive or discussing details about data that is closed. How should the model handle personally identifiable information (PII) in feedback. We should also take into account the privacy interest group, are there aspects of usage http://www.w3.org/2012/dnt-ws/report. 13:47:27 phila: i agree I think it is conveniently out of scope 13:48:06 phila: it is not more or less relevant to anything for the web, so i think i agree 13:48:17 ericstephan: can we put a proposal to close it? 13:48:21 PROPOSED: To close issue-153 as this is out of scope for the DUV 13:48:34 +1 13:48:34 +1 13:48:35 +1 13:48:36 +1 13:48:37 +1 13:48:37 +1 13:48:39 +1 13:48:41 +1 13:48:45 +1 13:48:48 RESOLUTION: To close issue-153 as this is out of scope for the DUV 13:48:52 close issue-153 13:48:53 Closed issue-153. 13:48:53 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234 13:49:01 issue-234 13:49:01 issue-234 -- Role of Usage Tool -- open 13:49:01 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234 13:49:09 +1 13:49:18 ericstephan: the other issue 234, it is around for a while as well 13:49:18 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#class-usageTool 13:49:44 ericstephan: that was soothing janpaolo pointed out .. 13:49:44 .. 13:49:57 s/janpaolo/joao-paolo 13:50:17 .. considering the time extension, we can try to address this.. 13:50:42 s/joao-paolo/joão paulo/ 13:51:22 Made considerable editorial alterations (approximately 60 minor edits) to the DUV, clarifying use of language, using code styles to depict classes and property references in code format when mentioned in the text. 13:51:23 ericstephan: we are doing some editorial changes, I wonder how the group must be involved in that 13:52:06 Based on the DQV we expanded discussion of the motivation of the DUV to reference work in the DWBP and introduce the concept that the DUV is largely a composition of 4 submodels. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#intro 13:52:15 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:52:51 ericstephan: working with antoine we are revising the introduction tiding the intro to vocabulary test practice the 13:53:13 In section 2 we discuss why extensive use of other vocabularies was necessary due to the vocabularies inheriitd by other reused vocabularies. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#namespaces-1 13:54:13 Section 5 A new section was added and is still a work in progress to discuss Alternative Vocabulary Considerations. The intent here is that part of the purpose of the DUV is to provide guidance on how to depict usage, citation, and feedback on the web, and in the depiction there are certain parts that are open to different kinds of representation. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#relationship_vocabularies 13:54:33 ericstephan: .. in section 5 we talked about a introductory section 13:55:04 ericstephan: providing some guidance as result of feedback from the Open knowledge foundation.. 13:56:00 Section 6 pictures of the submodels were added to help people look at what parts of the model apply to what submodel. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#Vocab_Overview 13:56:46 ericstephan: we needed some pictures, broken down the model to make it clearer 13:57:06 q+ to ask about splitting the pictures 13:57:50 phila: breaking the diagram, is a veri good idea but please created three distinct things .. 13:58:12 as in this way I can click on each and see them 13:58:32 We did receive feedback from Pierre-Yves Vandenbussche who is interested in including the DUV in the OKFN Linked Open Vocabulary. Which has to do with the motivation of expanding section 5. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#relationship_vocabularies 13:58:50 q- 13:59:15 ericstephan: we get some contact with the open knowledge foundation, they want to use DUV for feedback, so we that is why we are making the changes .. 13:59:21 s/veri/very 13:59:51 s/we/ 14:00:21 q+ to ask very quickly about the evidences object 14:00:24 q? 14:00:37 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2016Jul/0022.html 14:00:44 ack newton 14:00:44 newton, you wanted to ask very quickly about the evidences object 14:01:07 q+ 14:01:08 q+ 14:01:11 newton: my question is to phil.. about the message from max , I can't recall what we decided about 14:01:25 q+ /me has an opinion :) 14:01:31 q+ 14:01:50 .. the adoption of BP from other recommendation 14:01:50 q- 14:01:55 +1 to phila. 14:02:08 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/lg/ Localised Guides 14:02:15 +1 (the director will accept this as an evidence?) 14:02:32 personally, I think being listed in a guide is stronger evidence that something is a real best practice than that someone is doing it. 14:02:35 phila: they are important, if they are for example from government .. 14:02:40 @laufer -- I think it will help build the case, but I don't think the director will accept them as implementations 14:03:11 phila: they have to show evidence of endorsement .. 14:03:24 +1 to phila 14:03:29 https://www.w3.org/2016/06/10-dwbp-minutes 14:04:03 q+ 14:04:04 deirdrelee: the group decided to not include them.. 14:04:05 maybe we can do both 14:04:08 ack d 14:04:10 ack deirdrelee 14:04:12 ack c 14:04:15 ack Caroline_ 14:04:19 https://www.w3.org/2016/06/03-dwbp-minutes 14:04:45 Caroline_: i remember the resolution we take but i think they should be used as weel 14:04:58 s/weel/well 14:05:22 @phila would you mind answering Makx's message? 14:05:26 maybe in our report we could separate these two types of evidences... implementations and endorsments... 14:05:37 Caroline_: the form for feedbacks is ready .. can we keep going with implementation or we have to wait for I18n 14:05:41 q? 14:05:48 phila: keep going 14:05:52 ack h 14:06:44 q? 14:06:45 hadleybeeman: one reason to show implementation is give evidence that they are not rubbish and can be implemented.. 14:07:04 s/one reason/to my mind, the main reason 14:08:32 RRSAgent, draft miniutes 14:08:32 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft miniutes', phila. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:08:34 bye to all ! 14:08:36 bye all 14:08:38 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:08:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/15-dwbp-minutes.html phila 14:08:50 bye! 14:08:53 annette_g has left #dwbp 14:52:06 jtandy has joined #dwbp 16:31:38 Zakim has left #dwbp