01:03:56 RRSAgent has joined #wot 01:03:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-irc 01:04:38 ktoumura has joined #wot 01:05:00 scribenick: kaz 01:05:10 Meeting: WoT IG f2f meeting in Beijing - Day 2 01:05:20 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_July_2016,_China,_Beijing#Thursday.2C_14th_of_July.2C_WoT_IG_Meeting agenda 01:05:30 topic: Discussion on WG Deliverables 01:05:39 yingying has joined #wot 01:05:45 joerg: we have a draft Charter document 01:06:09 s/topic: Discussion on WG Deliverables/topic: Review of today's agenda/ 01:06:34 ... next breakouts: Scripting API and Home App Vocabulary 01:06:52 yingying_ has joined #wot 01:06:59 katsu has joined #wot 01:07:36 ying_ying has joined #wot 01:07:49 s/we have/discussion on WG deliverables. we have/ 01:08:27 topic: Home App Vocabulary 01:08:34 dsr: shows his slides 01:08:49 ... (Web of Things - Web Scale Interoperability) 01:09:06 ... semantic based interoperability 01:09:17 ... (Scott Jenson's comments on 16 June 2016) 01:09:27 ... work on smart homes 01:09:39 ... (Francois' list) 01:09:44 ... (Summary) 01:10:19 kajimoto: it's out of scope of this group, isn't it? 01:10:29 ... there are so many industry areas 01:10:40 ... and why do you pick up only home appliances? 01:10:48 dsr: we need practical example 01:10:55 ... and home appliance is a good area 01:11:11 ... a lot of interest in this area 01:11:21 kajimoto: there are many proposals already 01:11:34 ... we have already done some survey 01:11:45 ... as a case study, it's ok 01:12:05 olivexu has joined #wot 01:12:07 ... however, our WG scope is a horizontal framework 01:12:22 yingyingchen has joined #wot 01:12:27 dsr: that is an open question 01:12:32 masato has joined #wot 01:12:33 q+ 01:12:39 yin has joined #wot 01:12:57 kajimoto: if it's just a case study or an example, it's ok 01:13:23 ... but if some standard vocabulary is provided by the WoT WG, that would be out of scope 01:13:45 dsr: the IG's work include semantic work 01:14:11 ... it's up to the Members 01:14:20 joerg: comment from my side 01:14:22 sebastian has joined #wot 01:14:34 ... I believe the WG charter draft has a clear statement 01:14:44 ... we're not going for domain specific work 01:15:05 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 01:15:16 present+ DarkoAnicic 01:15:22 ... we won't invent yet another domain specific framework 01:15:37 ... may be some study case 01:15:58 ... that should be clear 01:16:10 dsr: I was talking about this as an IG item 01:16:45 joerg: interesting in this 01:16:53 ... we had discussions within the IG 01:17:05 ... we won't go for domain specific things 01:17:27 ... we're not experts on smart grid, automotive or smart house 01:18:44 (some more discussion) 01:18:45 q? 01:20:05 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2016Jun/0067.html Scott's message 01:22:00 nimura has joined #wot 01:22:22 q+ 01:22:27 ack k 01:22:48 kaz: sounds like we're mixing topics for the IG and the BG 01:23:28 dsr: let's have the detailed discussion during the breakout session 01:23:39 joerg: will come back to the agenda review 01:24:03 ... Matthias will talk about the WG Charter 01:24:19 topic: WG Charter and Deliverables 01:25:10 matthias: explains the WG roadmap 01:25:15 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Roadmap WG roadmap 01:25:49 matthias: AC reps think about the Charter review 01:26:21 ... after Baijing end of July, planning to get group resolution for the WG Charter draft 01:26:27 jhund has joined #wot 01:27:12 ... encourage you all to outreach for p2p review by Members 01:27:17 q? 01:27:41 joerg: important to get feedback from outside of the IG as well 01:28:33 ... would like to ask you to take some action to outreach AC reps 01:29:13 ... if you see the AC review result of the IG Charter, we got comments from the AC 01:29:30 s/we got/you can see we got/ 01:29:39 ack taki 01:29:52 wenna has joined #wot 01:31:33 rrsagent, make log public 01:31:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:31:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-minutes.html kaz 01:32:03 matthias: we'll fix the draft WG Charter to get group resolution on July 27 01:32:16 ... and get W3C Management approval for the AC review 01:32:43 ... we'll start the AC review on Aug. 24 until Sep. 21 01:32:57 ... this is a tight schedule 01:33:22 ... if we get many comments from the AC, the WG launch might be delayed 01:33:26 dsr has joined #wot 01:33:30 present+ 01:33:41 masato has joined #wot 01:33:45 ... so if you have contacts from other Members, please contact them 01:34:08 dsr: it's kind of vacation season, so we should do that quickly 01:34:19 matthias: any questions? 01:34:32 (no questions) 01:34:43 matthias: so we should dive into the issues on GitHub 01:34:56 ... got a response from Ericsson 01:35:07 ... coordination with the HW security group 01:35:12 yingying_ has joined #wot 01:35:19 ... charter draft of the HaSec WG 01:36:28 Yongjing has joined #wot 01:36:40 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2016AprJun/0005.html 01:37:05 mkovatsc has joined #wot 01:37:44 kaz: WG proposal had objections 01:37:51 ... and the resolution was creating a CG instead 01:38:10 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues WoT IG issues 01:39:05 matthias: next object security 01:39:11 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/210 object security issue 01:39:25 matthias: a pull request from Ari as well 01:39:52 ... we have consensus to add this 01:40:07 matthias: next coordination issue 01:40:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/207 coordination issue 01:40:35 matthias: IG has a long list of organizations 01:40:47 ... the coordination for the WG is checking the specs 01:40:53 olivexu_ has joined #wot 01:40:59 taki1 has joined #wot 01:41:01 ktoumura has joined #wot 01:41:26 yingying has joined #wot 01:41:55 ... initial proposed list here 01:42:35 kaz: we can start with this list and add some more later if needed 01:42:47 dsr: how about Web Crypt WG? 01:43:20 matthias: could you respond to the issue 207 and mention the resource? 01:43:22 dsr: sure 01:43:38 The web crypto WG is at http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/ 01:43:38 matthias: next intro/concept illustration issue 01:43:55 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/206 intro/concept issue 01:44:06 matthias: editorial changes 01:44:27 ... next still lots of issues on the obsolete repo 01:45:10 ... raised Sebastian and Michael 01:45:16 s/raised/raised by/ 01:45:27 kaz: will close all of them 01:45:54 s/Michael/Michael but all of them have been transfered to the new repo/ 01:46:01 matthias: last one 01:46:08 ... issue on interoperability 01:46:40 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/174 consistency issue 01:46:57 matthias: still waiting for response from Jonathan, but we should be able to close this 01:47:07 (no objections) 01:47:15 matthias: so let's close this 01:47:40 ... closes issue 174 01:47:59 kajimoto has joined #wot 01:48:04 ... the other thing is wording 01:48:38 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/104 wording issue 01:48:58 matthias: time series instead of streams 01:49:06 dsr: use cases are business driver 01:49:11 jhund has joined #wot 01:49:16 q? 01:49:40 matthias: high impact to implementations 01:49:58 ... want to be safe 01:50:10 dsr: streaming is already on the Current Practice document 01:50:28 wenna has joined #wot 01:50:28 matthias: we can easily include existing scheme 01:50:49 dsr: quite common to use streaming for small devices 01:51:23 ... depends on what kind of device you're using 01:51:35 ... streaming is quite popular for IoT 01:52:19 joerg: we had discussion during the breakout yesterday 01:52:27 ... we'll restart our Use Case work 01:52:42 ... good to have explicit links on your proposal 01:53:06 matthias: on the other hand, we're talking about the WG Charter 01:53:20 dsr: the IG should do more than Use Cases 01:53:38 joerg: we had discussion during the breakout yesterday 01:53:49 ... and the discussion was kind of controversial 01:54:02 ... we need experts' references 01:54:11 ... to better understand the use cases 01:54:20 ... we need to make progress 01:54:44 ... may need links to reference implementations 01:54:57 q+ 01:56:46 joerg: provides very precise expression on his idea 01:57:01 matthias: we need to be very careful about the working for the WG Charter 01:57:21 dsr: several companies require streaming 01:57:56 ... we should generate some concrete wording so that people outside this IG can understand it 01:58:04 ... we have to clarify our intention 01:58:06 ack n 01:58:40 nimura: terminology of streaming and pub/sub is confusing 01:59:49 s/of/on/ 02:00:22 matthias: shows the draft WG Charter document 02:01:02 ... we want editors and contributors 02:01:09 -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/wot-wg-2016.html draft WG Charter 02:01:19 matthias: deliverables section 02:01:34 -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/wot-wg-2016.html#deliverables deliverables 02:01:47 matthias: would like Kajimoto-san to take care of Architecture 02:01:51 kajimoto: ok 02:02:01 matthias: and TD by Sebastian 02:02:06 sebastian: ok 02:02:20 matthias: if you are also interested, raise your hand 02:02:40 ... Scripting APIs by Johhanes 02:02:47 s/Johhanes/Johannes/ 02:02:49 johannes: ok 02:03:57 joerg: also we should identify who is active on which topic 02:04:11 ... thought Fujitsu was interested in scripting api 02:04:55 matthias: the last item is Protocol Binding 02:05:02 ... I myself 02:05:14 ... also Michael should be interested 02:05:30 matthias: something we need to work on is Test Cases 02:05:46 ... for test suties 02:05:49 s/suties/suites/ 02:06:14 (no objections or questions) 02:06:24 matthias: ok we'll move forward to the next agenda item 02:06:47 nimura: interested to join the Scripting API work 02:06:58 kinoshita has joined #wot 02:07:09 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_July_2016,_China,_Beijing#Thursday.2C_14th_of_July.2C_WoT_IG_Meeting agenda 02:07:25 joerg: we've done the first agenda item 02:07:57 ... we'll switch the topics and talk about the Home appliance Vocabulary topic first 02:08:07 topic: Home Appliance Vocabulary 02:08:51 yingying_ has joined #wot 02:10:13 dsr: shows his slides again 02:10:26 ... (Web of Things - Web Scale Interoperability) 02:10:46 ... interoperabilty based upon metadata 02:10:53 s/interoperabilty/interoperability/ 02:11:11 ... need to start work on semantic vocabulary 02:11:18 ... home appliance is a good starting point 02:11:30 ... (Scott Jenson's comments on 16 June 2016) 02:12:04 ... (Who is working on Smart Homes) 02:12:11 ... list of SDOs 02:12:34 ... home gateway initiative, allseen, cenelec, ... 02:13:07 yongjing: please include @@@ 02:13:24 q+ 02:13:29 s/@@@/oneM2M/ 02:13:40 ... home appliance model 02:14:01 ... quite similar to the Thing Description 02:14:09 ... the concept is same 02:14:30 dsr: more extensive survey is needed 02:14:49 kajimoto: ECHONET has clarified vocabulary for smart home appliance 02:15:06 ... also for the automotive area, Google and Apple promote their work 02:15:18 ... the leader is Toyota in the auto world 02:15:30 ... they also define some semantic information for automotive 02:15:32 q+ 02:15:41 ryuichi has joined #wot 02:15:47 ... this is an area of industries 02:15:59 ... the other is IIC 02:16:35 dsr: (Home Gateway Initiative) 02:16:45 q? 02:16:47 joerg: we have several people on the queue 02:17:00 q+ 02:17:06 jhund has joined #wot 02:17:16 q? 02:17:20 ack seb 02:17:31 sebastian: generic approach on industry domains within @@@ 02:17:43 dsr: this is an initial list 02:18:44 junling has joined #wot 02:18:52 s/@@@/EU project, OpenIoT/ 02:19:02 ack kaz 02:19:19 liupeiyun has joined #wot 02:19:26 kaz: Dave, are your suggesting we should try some more extensive survey about this for the Tech Landscape doc? 02:19:44 dsr: let's talk about that after the presentation 02:20:08 joerg: there are so many organizations working on semantic vocabulary 02:20:23 ... we're interested in interconnection rather than each industry area 02:20:50 ying_ying has joined #wot 02:21:05 ... afraid open survey is impossible 02:21:36 ... also if we look at the original Scott's email, his original intention was different 02:22:12 ... contributions on interexchange is our target 02:22:27 ... wondering what would be the reasonable approach 02:22:42 ... what would be your recommendation? 02:23:28 dsr: we don't have to create concrete vocabulary 02:23:38 mkovatsc has joined #wot 02:23:41 q+ 02:24:01 ... and we should demonstrate some specific area as an example 02:24:08 s/demonstrate/investigate/ 02:24:41 (some more discussion on the objective of the proposal) 02:25:16 jhund_ has joined #wot 02:25:24 q? 02:26:03 joerg: need clarification on our target, interexchange or specific industry area 02:26:21 kajimoto: my understanding for Scott's message is quite similar to the one of Joerg 02:26:30 yingying has joined #wot 02:26:47 ... there was not any strong intention for the WoT IG to handle specific industry vocabulary 02:26:49 dsr: right 02:27:05 kajimoto: we should not jump in a specific industry domain 02:27:15 q? 02:27:28 ... home appliance manufacturers themselves should work on the issue 02:27:41 yingying_ has joined #wot 02:27:52 ... meaning the necessary semantic vocabulary for their own specific industry area 02:28:17 ... Thing Description is a good candidate as the mechanism to describe that 02:28:22 dsr: agree 02:28:23 q? 02:28:34 ack jo 02:28:45 ... but we need to demonstrate how to use the semantic model using Thing Description 02:28:55 dsr: continues his presentation 02:29:01 <_yingying> _yingying has joined #wot 02:29:01 ... (Gateway) 02:29:06 ... (Google Smart Home) 02:29:22 ... bluetooth, wifi, ... 02:29:28 ... (Apple Homekit) 02:29:49 ... (Samsung SmartThings) 02:29:56 ... (Francis Daoust's List) 02:30:13 ... (Smart Home Appliances) 02:30:50 ... very few people will want to be locked to a single platform provider 02:30:58 ... (Francois says...) 02:31:03 Yongjing has joined #wot 02:31:12 ... (Common Device Categories) 02:31:20 ... (Common Characteristics) 02:31:25 http://www.onem2m.org/component/rsfiles/download-file/files?path=Release_2_Draft_TS%255CTS-0023-Home_Appliances_Information_Model_and_Mapping-V0_10_2.doc&Itemid=238 02:31:32 ... brightness, ... 02:31:46 ... (Summary) 02:31:47 this is the latest oneM2M Home Appliances Information Model 02:31:57 ... semantic models of devices and characteristics 02:32:08 ... further work is needed to study the details 02:32:26 ... how to work with other industry alliances/SDOs 02:32:41 ... PlugFest demos for services that work with devices 02:32:45 oneM2M also did some survey on existing home appliance models: http://www.onem2m.org/component/rsfiles/download-file/files?path=Draft_TR%255CTR-0017-Home_Domain_Abstract_Information_Model-V1_0_1.doc&Itemid=238 02:33:04 ... should the WoT WG Charter scope enable standardization of such models? 02:33:09 jhund has joined #wot 02:33:13 q? 02:33:16 q? 02:33:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 02:33:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-minutes.html kaz 02:33:30 ack mkovatsc 02:33:32 matthias: several comments 02:33:40 ... really confused 02:33:59 ... Scott didn't raise this proposal itself 02:34:06 how to get in the queue? 02:34:09 ... we have to be careful 02:34:16 q+ Yongjing 02:34:59 ... we should not build any industry specific vocabulary ourselves 02:35:24 ... should rather use linked data mechanism for existing ontologies 02:35:31 q+ to emphasize the work on tooling and process rather than content 02:35:36 ... this is already available for smart home 02:36:10 ... we're working on horizontal framework to interconnect with existing industry ontologies 02:36:49 q? 02:38:05 (some discussion between Matthias and Dave on interexchange framework vs vocabulary) 02:38:27 matthias: this kind of work should be done by a BG or a CG 02:38:40 ... and this work should not stop our technical work 02:38:56 yongjing: has just put links for oneM2M resources 02:38:59 wenna has joined #wot 02:39:29 ack Yongjing 02:39:37 ... regarding the semantic interoperability, we could think about the mapping mechanism with existing ontologies 02:39:44 nimura has joined #wot 02:40:24 ... Sara is RDF and could be easily integrated 02:41:12 dsr: proposed whitepaper is still in early stage 02:41:36 yongjing: oneM2M has survey document on existing SDOs as well 02:41:37 q? 02:41:40 ack j 02:41:40 jhund, you wanted to emphasize the work on tooling and process rather than content 02:42:03 jhund: wanted to emphasize the work on tooling and process rather than content 02:42:46 dsr: we have the data model, i.e., Thing Description 02:42:53 ... also have an idea of templates 02:43:02 s/templates/domain templates/ 02:43:26 q? 02:43:35 jhund: what is your concrete use case? 02:44:13 dsr: demonstrate cross-domain interoperability 02:44:31 ... for service composition 02:44:58 q? 02:45:18 joerg: what would be the next step? 02:45:29 kajimoto: totally agree with the motivation and the goal 02:46:19 ... however, each specific industry stakeholder, e.g., Panasonic, has already studied vocabulary for this purpose 02:46:30 ... and this work should be done outside of the WoT IG 02:46:52 ... we WoT is not an authority to handle the expected vocabulary 02:47:27 ... why don't you create another group to handle this? 02:47:57 q? 02:48:26 ... the "Standard" we as the WoT IG should do is different from defining vocabulary 02:48:36 dsr: agree 02:48:46 q? 02:48:46 q+ 02:48:48 q+ 02:49:33 kajimoto: each specific domain stakeholders themselves should create vocabulary for their own industry 02:50:23 dsr: this is demonstrating the expected semantic interoperability 02:50:30 ... not defining the vocabulary itself 02:50:59 joerg: wondering what the best way to proceed... 02:51:09 yingying has joined #wot 02:51:10 ... what can be the possibility? 02:51:25 ... maybe you can look into the work of oneM2M 02:51:51 ... we can look at the survey result during one of our teleconfs 02:52:49 ... and Scott joined our meeting in Sunneyvale, we should try to talk with him again 02:53:07 ... and see their intention 02:53:26 ... why don't we invite him to our teleconfs? 02:53:30 (ok) 02:53:54 action: joerg to invite Scott Jenson to the WoT IG call 02:53:54 Created ACTION-69 - Invite scott jenson to the wot ig call [on Joerg Heuer - due 2016-07-21]. 02:54:05 q- 02:54:30 jhund has joined #wot 02:54:31 sebastian: we should rely on existing ontologies 02:54:38 q? 02:54:43 yingying_ has joined #wot 02:54:44 ... nice to get more experience 02:54:46 ack seb 02:55:03 q? 02:55:05 oneM2M base ontology: http://www.onem2m.org/component/rsfiles/download-file/files?path=Release_2_Draft_TS%255CTS-0012-oneM2M-Base-Ontology-V0_10_0.doc&Itemid=238 02:55:26 joerg: can we make the two points as the conclusion? 02:55:40 ?+ 02:55:44 Action on Siemens to reach out to Scott Jensen and invite him to a webconf call 02:55:44 Created ACTION-70 - Siemens to reach out to scott jensen and invite him to a webconf call [on Osamu Nakamura - due 2016-07-21]. 02:55:46 (no objections) 02:56:10 masato has joined #wot 02:59:10 joerg: 1. provide tech report on oneM2M, 2. invite Scott Jensen to the IG web conf 02:59:27 yongjing: have already provided resources on oneM2M work 02:59:37 ... and happy to explain them 03:01:13 Max has joined #wot 03:02:17 ... on the other hand, would like to invite W3C experts to the oneM2M call or f2f 03:02:55 topic: Scripting API 03:02:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 03:02:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/14-wot-minutes.html kaz 03:03:45 jhund: how to do local discovery? 03:04:20 ... need read access to the THing Description, i.e., ConsumedThing.getTD(); 03:04:25 s/THing/Thing/ 03:04:44 ... event handling and decorators 03:05:46 ... extended sepc with optional parts/hints for runtime implementers 03:06:31 ... got comments from Cindy from W3C, Intel, ... 03:06:46 ying_ying has joined #wot 03:06:57 s/... got comments from Cindy from W3C, Intel, ...// 03:07:39 ... optional arguments / default vallues (and overriding them) 03:07:47 s/vallues/values/ 03:08:35 ... syntactic sugar: operator overloading, getter/setters 03:08:45