18:38:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:38:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/12-aapi-irc
18:38:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
18:38:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:38:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:38:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:38:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
18:38:29 <trackbot> Date: 12 July 2016
18:38:57 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 19-Jul-2016, 20:00 UTC)
18:39:06 <clown> agenda: this
18:39:12 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2089 (Cynthia) Check for value events for splitters in UIA.
18:39:19 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-441/ACTION-1373 (Cynthia) Mapping of partially missing aria-posinset and aria-setsize is now an error condition
18:39:26 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE=676 (Joanie/All) Identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings
18:39:33 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-540:  Section describing AAPI differences.
18:39:44 <clown> agenda+ Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
18:40:03 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:40:08 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:40:21 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
18:40:21 <clown> 
18:40:34 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:40:56 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:46 <Rich> Rich has joined #aapi
19:01:07 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:01:24 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:01:27 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:50 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:04:11 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:46 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:04:47 <clown> aria-roledescription=“null”
19:05:37 <joanie> present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
19:06:23 <clown> <abbr title="go to top">up-arrow-glyph</abbr>
19:08:11 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:08:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2089 (Cynthia) Check for value events for splitters in UIA." taken up [from clown]
19:08:17 <clown> issue-1029?
19:08:17 <trackbot> issue-1029 -- Add mappings for interactive separator (window splitter). -- open
19:08:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1029
19:08:36 <joanie> JS: We're almost finished with the Windows splitter.
19:08:46 <joanie> JS: Cynthia has one action left.
19:09:00 <joanie> CS: I've not gotten to this one yet.
19:09:08 <joanie> JS: There's an AXAPI action too.
19:09:11 <clown> action-2075
19:09:11 <trackbot> action-2075 -- Joanmarie Diggs to AXAPI mapping of role="separator", when it is a widget (window splitter). -- due 2016-06-02 -- OPEN
19:09:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2075
19:09:16 <joanie> JS: I'll wait another week.
19:09:31 <joanie> JS: But on the AXAPI issue which is on Joanie...
19:09:41 <joanie> JS: Do you know anything about this?
19:09:51 <joanie> JD: My recollection is that I said "ok, I'll check the code"
19:09:58 <joanie> JD: And I have not done that yet.
19:10:34 <joanie> JD: And I don't know if there's a WebKit mapping for this.
19:10:41 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-separator
19:11:14 <joanie> JS: Right now (URL above) it's mapped to AXSplitter.
19:11:19 <joanie> JD: Where'd that come from?
19:11:30 <joanie> JS: James Craig.
19:11:39 <joanie> JS: I don't think it has changed since ARIA 1.0.
19:11:45 <joanie> JD: Well, if it hasn't changed....
19:11:55 <joanie> JS: Yep, it's the same in the 1.0 REC.
19:12:56 <joanie> JS: I find it somewhat odd that an HR element would be mapped as a splitter.
19:13:07 <joanie> JD: We could make a test case and then examine it on the Mac.
19:13:15 <clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/roles-plain-concrete/roles-plain-concrete-separator.html
19:13:21 <joanie> JS: The above is our test file.
19:13:37 <joanie> JS: It has a div with role separator.
19:14:36 <joanie> JS: Case 52 passed in Safari.
19:14:38 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=52
19:14:46 <joanie> JS: James Craig was the one who tested it.
19:14:52 <joanie> JS: The results are above.
19:15:07 <joanie> JS: Maybe I have the wrong results, because this says it mapped to radio button.
19:15:13 <joanie> JS: Oops 59; not 52.
19:15:33 <joanie> RS: It says the AXAPI role is splitter.
19:16:11 <joanie> RS: If it's focusable, then presumably there would be an AXValue set.
19:16:48 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=59
19:17:08 <joanie> RS: Have you talked to Chris yet?
19:17:11 <joanie> JD: Not yet.
19:17:29 <joanie> JS: In ARIA 1.0, the value of a separator did not matter.
19:17:38 <joanie> JS: It's only mattered in the past month or so.
19:17:55 <joanie> JS: Because now we're supporting the value-related attributed if the separator is focusable.
19:18:04 <joanie> JS: I'll let Joanie work on this and get back to us.
19:18:06 <joanie> JD: OK.
19:18:24 <joanie> JS: I won't close this issue just yet, though we're close.
19:18:27 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:18:27 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ISSUE-441/ACTION-1373 (Cynthia) Mapping of partially missing aria-posinset and aria-setsize is now an error condition" taken up [from clown]
19:18:32 <clown> issue-441?
19:18:32 <trackbot> issue-441 -- Normative UAIG requirements for what UAs do when aria-posinset or aria-setsize is provided explicitly on some, but not all, elements within a set. -- open
19:18:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/441
19:18:37 <joanie> JS: This is the one I emailed Cynthia about.
19:18:42 <joanie> JS: Last week we discussed this.
19:18:53 <joanie> JS: Rich argued this was an error condition.
19:19:04 <joanie> JS: And that it's undefined what user agents do in that case.
19:19:11 <joanie> JS: And we all agreed to that.
19:19:21 <joanie> JS: So I updated the Core AAM to that effect.
19:19:21 <clown> action-1373?
19:19:21 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2016-08-02 -- OPEN
19:19:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1373
19:19:31 <joanie> CS: This action item is ancient.
19:19:43 <joanie> CS: And it came up because someone was trying to tweak a part of a list.
19:19:52 <joanie> CS: And we should probably have authoring guidance too.
19:19:58 <joanie> JS: Do you want us to close your action?
19:20:05 <joanie> CS: I think you can close it.
19:20:11 <joanie> JS: Are you happy with it?
19:20:15 <joanie> CS: I'm ok with it.
19:20:28 <joanie> CS: I'd really like to figure out how to get the browser to handle this condition.
19:20:42 <joanie> CS: But I don't see that happening in the near future.
19:20:54 <joanie> CS: Hence authoring guidance.
19:21:04 <joanie> CS: And/or a WCAG failure.
19:21:06 <joanie> RS: I agree.
19:21:27 <joanie> CS: A sentence that says, "Don't do this."
19:21:34 <joanie> RS: Can we put something in their bug tracker?
19:21:42 <joanie> RS: I think they're using GitHub.
19:21:53 <joanie> RS: But I don't know where specifically.
19:22:45 <joanie> JD: Is this issue for WCAG or APG?
19:22:51 <joanie> Group: Potentially both.
19:23:13 <joanie> RS: They're going to have to tie a lot of what they're doing to EO.
19:23:25 <joanie> RS: After APG is further along, we need to circle back with EO.
19:23:35 <joanie> CS: Does EO have more technical people now?
19:23:45 <joanie> RS: I think so, though I'd have to check with Sharon.
19:24:33 <joanie> JS: I have closed Cynthia's action and will close the issue.
19:24:45 <joanie> JS: Because I've already made the changes to Core AAM.
19:24:53 <joanie> JS: Objections to closing these?
19:24:57 <joanie> Group: No.
19:25:13 <joanie> RS: I'll create an action for APG.
19:25:37 <Rich> Action: Matt King Add aria aurthoring practices feature that tells authors how to do posinset/setsize
19:25:37 <trackbot> 'Matt' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., mgarrish, mking3).
19:26:08 <Rich> MKing3 Add aria aurthoring practices feature that tells authors how to do posinset/setsize
19:26:23 <Rich> action: MKing3 Add aria aurthoring practices feature that tells authors how to do posinset/setsize
19:26:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2093 - Add aria aurthoring practices feature that tells authors how to do posinset/setsize [on Matthew King - due 2016-07-19].
19:26:36 <clown> action-1093
19:26:36 <trackbot> action-1093 -- Michael Cooper to Write test cases for "implied boolean attributes" e.g., html5 required vs aria-required - ARIA 1.1 -- due 2012-07-16 -- OPEN
19:26:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1093
19:28:32 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2093
19:29:10 <joanie> Group: (Wordsmiths action)
19:29:33 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:29:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE=676 (Joanie/All) Identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings" taken up [from clown]
19:29:44 <clown> issue-676
19:29:44 <trackbot> issue-676 -- Is it useful to identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings? -- open
19:29:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676
19:29:55 <joanie> JS: This is an issue that Jason Kiss brought up a long time ago.
19:30:08 <joanie> JS: He wanted the Core AAM to add actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings.
19:30:31 <joanie> RS: That's an API/ARIA 2.0 thing.
19:30:35 <clown> action-1739
19:30:35 <trackbot> action-1739 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide all the missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces for joseph -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN
19:30:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739
19:30:39 <joanie> JD: No it's not.
19:30:57 <joanie> JS: Joanie already supplied me with the interfaces, which is applied to roles.
19:31:49 <joanie> JS: I went through and followed Joanie's advice and added the interfaces and associated notes.
19:32:10 <joanie> JS: I got stuck on AtkAction, "it's complicated".
19:32:16 <joanie> JS: So I did nothing for Action.
19:33:32 <joanie> JS: And you put AtkComponent applies for all roles. Do we really want to duplicate that?
19:33:40 <joanie> JD: I put statements of fact in the action.
19:33:50 <joanie> JD: And figured I would leave what you do up to you. :)
19:34:28 <joanie> CS + JS + JD: (Discuss possibility of a note rather than a duplication)
19:34:34 <joanie> JS: Does that include heading?
19:34:36 <joanie> JD: YEs.
19:35:25 <joanie> s/YEs/Yes/
19:36:35 <joanie> JD: Component gives you bounding boxes.
19:36:46 <joanie> JD: It also gives you a grab_focus() method.
19:36:55 <joanie> JD: And that wouldn't make sense on a heading.
19:37:02 <joanie> JD: But then grab_focus() could return false.
19:37:27 <joanie> JD: For the bounding box stuff, however, we do need Atk/AtspiComponent.
19:38:56 <joanie> JS: Given that I've added the interfaces now, which weren't there in the 1.0 spec, do we need to test these?
19:39:19 <joanie> JD: Not sure. It's not a new requirement or a new interface.
19:39:27 <joanie> JD: These have always been required.
19:39:59 <joanie> JD: Just not documented in our spec as such.
19:40:10 <joanie> JS: Who will take an action to add these test cases?
19:40:16 <joanie> JD: I will since it's my platform.
19:40:26 <clown> action:  Joanie to add expectations to test cases regarding the newly documented ATK/AT-SPI interfaces, etc. in the Core-AAM
19:40:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2094 - Add expectations to test cases regarding the newly documented atk/at-spi interfaces, etc. in the core-aam [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-07-19].
19:40:34 <clown> action-2094
19:40:34 <trackbot> action-2094 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add expectations to test cases regarding the newly documented atk/at-spi interfaces, etc. in the core-aam -- due 2016-07-19 -- OPEN
19:40:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2094
19:41:24 <joanie> JS: I'm making the product the ARIA 1.1 test plan.
19:41:57 <joanie> JS: I expect we need to do the same thing for IA2.
19:42:01 <joanie> JS: Whom can we ask?
19:43:54 <joanie> RS: I would not have a normative test for it at this point.
19:43:58 <joanie> RS: We didn't before.
19:44:46 <joanie> JS: So we're just going to complete ATK/AT-SPI2 and leave the rest.
19:44:55 <joanie> RS: You could leave ATK/AT-SPI2 out.
19:45:00 <clown> issue-676
19:45:00 <trackbot> issue-676 -- Is it useful to identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings? -- open
19:45:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676
19:45:00 <joanie> RS: I mean for actions.
19:45:12 <joanie> JS: We need to also answer Jason Kiss.
19:45:40 <joanie> RS: What do they do in the HTML AAM? Do they document this?
19:45:47 <joanie> JS + CS: Yes.
19:45:58 <joanie> RS: I understand, but I think even the HTML AAM will change.
19:46:08 <joanie> RS: Do you have all the control patterns in there yet?
19:46:16 <joanie> CS: For everything we've implemented, yes.
19:46:22 <joanie> CS: I still need to test more.
19:46:47 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-p
19:47:12 <joanie> RS: For actions, all we can do is click.
19:49:31 <joanie> RS: If all you can do is a click, is it worth documenting that?
19:49:41 <joanie> CS: That's all the DOM can do, in terms of mouse events.
19:49:58 <joanie> RS: Being pragmatic, I don't think it's worth adding all the additional testing for a click.
19:50:37 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_actions
19:51:40 <joanie> JD: I'm fine without documenting the Action interface on my platform.
19:51:44 <joanie> JS: I didn't document it.
19:51:58 <joanie> JS: I did Text, Selection, Value, Table, etc.
19:52:11 <joanie> JS: And the question is should I do the same for IA2.
19:52:21 <joanie> s/for IA2./for IA2?/
19:52:30 <joanie> JS: Forget about the Action interface; just the other ones.
19:52:39 <joanie> JS: This is what Jason Kiss is asking about.
19:52:47 <joanie> JS: Because they document this already in the HTML AAM.
19:52:57 <joanie> Group: (Crickets)
19:53:03 <joanie> JS: What does silence mean here?
19:53:10 <joanie> CS: Don't worry about Action right now.
19:53:17 <joanie> JS: I don't want to do anything about Action.
19:53:28 <joanie> JS: What about IAccessibleValue, IAccessibleText, etc.?
19:53:34 <joanie> CS: I think that should go in.
19:53:48 <joanie> RS: Sure.
19:53:59 <joanie> JS: Who's going to do that?
19:54:02 <joanie> CS: Joanie!
19:54:06 <joanie> JD: I think not. :)
19:54:13 <joanie> RS: Alex should be able to do it.
19:55:39 <joanie> JD: You could send it to James Teh.
19:55:49 <joanie> JD: Maybe show him what you've done for my platform.
19:56:37 <joanie> JD: Mention what's in HTML AAM.
19:57:18 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-table
19:57:36 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-tablist
19:57:54 <joanie> JS: (Reads from above)
19:58:59 <joanie> JS: Note that for UIA it states selection pattern; for ATK/AT-SPI2, it states selection interface.
19:59:25 <joanie> JS: But note that it doesn't say anything about selection for MSAA+IA2.
19:59:52 <joanie> RS: Is aria-selected supported on tablist?
20:01:08 <joanie> RS: I'm guessing the implement the IA2 selection interface for tablist.
20:01:16 <joanie> s/the imp/they imp/
20:01:34 <joanie> JS: Right. But it's not just this one role; it's practically all the roles.
20:02:14 <joanie> RS: Agreed.
20:13:06 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:13:06 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly, Richard_Schwerdtfeger
20:13:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:13:21 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:13:29 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop