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11:59:33 <fsasaki> meeting: RAX CG
11:59:37 <fsasaki> chair: christian:
11:59:39 <fsasaki> chair: christian
11:59:42 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
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12:04:53 <fsasaki> present+ felix, christian, gerard, john, timea
12:05:01 <fsasaki> present+ christoph
12:05:26 <fsasaki> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0004.html
12:05:49 <fsasaki> topic: new members
12:06:00 <fsasaki> no new members, skipped
12:06:04 <fsasaki> topic: action items
12:06:20 <quentin> quentin has joined #rax
12:06:28 <fsasaki> present+ quentin
12:06:49 <fsasaki> github link for rax cg is https://github.com/rax-w3c
12:07:39 <fsasaki> topic: input from quentin et al.
12:07:40 <fsasaki> see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0002.html
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12:08:10 <fsasaki> "One solution that we have used is to transform the RDF input (in any supported syntax) to be converted into a XML canonical form prior to applying XSLTs. "
12:08:43 <clange> help
12:08:46 <fsasaki> processing RDF data in XML / xslt workflows
12:09:00 <fsasaki> christian: also covered by one XML prague scenario
12:09:08 <quentin> canonical format new to be optimized for performance
12:10:23 <fsasaki> christoph: similar solution is here https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0007.html
12:10:40 <fsasaki> ... has RDF abstraction layer, this is independent of RDF output serialization
12:10:55 <fsasaki> ... related: what RDF abstract serialization to use
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12:11:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:11:36 <fsasaki> collection of state of the art canonical representations of RDF in XML
12:11:56 <fsasaki> quentin: you should always optimize canonical format that you are processsing
12:11:57 <clange> there is, e.g., RXR (Regular XML RDF), there is TriX, and there are more
12:12:28 <clange> q?
12:12:36 <fsasaki> quentin: XSLT is generally not enough, one needs libraries on top of XSLT
12:14:46 <fsasaki> christian: "processing RDF data in XML / xslt workflows" - important topic, has several solutions, we need to collect info what works good, what not etc.
12:14:52 <clange> sources for the canonical formats mentioned above: RXR (https://www.dajobe.org/papers/xmleurope2004/), TriX (https://www.w3.org/2004/03/trix/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TriX_(syntax) )
12:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:15:10 <clange> AFAIK there is also a newer approach based on the SPARQL XML results format
12:16:06 <clange> q+
12:16:47 <fsasaki> ack ch
12:17:02 <fsasaki> https://github.com/rax-w3c
12:17:35 <clange> @fsasaki my GitHub account is "clange"
12:18:03 <TimeaT> my GitHub is theRealImy
12:18:15 <quentin> @fasaki my GitHub is qhreul
12:18:23 <fsasaki> action: felix to add people to rax-cg github
12:18:44 <quentin> q+
12:18:57 <fsasaki> ack cl
12:19:00 <clange> q-
12:19:41 <fsasaki> quentin: happy to do the description. won't be able to go through all material that christoph provided
12:19:47 <fsasaki> christoph: happy to help
12:19:56 <clange> q+
12:20:18 <fsasaki> action: quention to start section on RDF data in XML / xslt workflows topic. christoph to add material
12:20:49 <fsasaki> ack qu
12:20:52 <fsasaki> ack cl
12:21:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:21:44 <TimeaT> q+
12:22:31 <fsasaki> ack TimeaT
12:23:03 <fsasaki> TimeaT: previous problems, solutions were sent directly per mail. there was also a template, not sure how to send input
12:23:29 <fsasaki> regrets+ rob, phil
12:24:00 <fsasaki> Christian: use the template, send to the list
12:24:08 <clange> BTW my colleagues will write up their two use cases (AutomationML Industry 4.0 and GATE NLP) by the next telco.
12:25:06 <fsasaki> topic: mapping XML of dictionary data to RDF
12:25:42 <fsasaki> timea: dictionary company stores data in XML format, for further publishing. They wanted to bring XML into RDF, to be able to enrich dictionaries
12:26:01 <fsasaki> ... they can be multi- or monolingual, because language is complex
12:26:14 <fsasaki> ... need a way to convert XML to RDF
12:26:45 <fsasaki> .... for working with dictionaries you have to use lemon / ontolex, which may be extended
12:26:51 <fsasaki> ... solved currently with XSLT
12:27:08 <fsasaki> ... writing the XSLT proved to be very long and tedious
12:27:24 <fsasaki> ... not sure if we can achieve a general XSLT
12:27:38 <fsasaki> .... next step is how to connect words between dictionaries
12:27:54 <fsasaki> ... we reached very good point with XSLT, just wondering if there is a better way
12:27:59 <clange> q+
12:28:08 <fsasaki> felix: so no integration of RDF in XML needed?
12:28:27 <fsasaki> timea: would have been desired, but dropped because XML mapping took a long time
12:29:06 <fsasaki> ... roundtripping is difficult
12:29:29 <fsasaki> ... not sure if it is needed
12:29:44 <fsasaki> ack cl
12:30:02 <fsasaki> christoph: for making it easier to create XML / RDF translation, there are solutions
12:30:12 <fsasaki> ... I have developed something, felix has one
12:30:25 <fsasaki> ... so this should be a part: write a classification of existing libraries
12:30:51 <fsasaki> ... e.g. libraries that are based on XSLT. You start with that and it becomes hard to maintain, then people add an abstraction layer
12:31:04 <fsasaki> ... adding link to my implementation here
12:31:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:31:19 <quentin> for RDF -> XML, an approach could be to use SPARQL and XML templates
12:31:38 <quentin> ... essentially creating registere queries
12:31:47 <clange> https://github.com/EIS-Bonn/krextor is a library of XSLT templates and functions for XML to RDF
12:32:05 <fsasaki> timea: we used "unified views", etl tool that read the XML and writes all data into virtuoso
12:32:20 <fsasaki> ... the actual mapping if endepend of unified views
12:32:22 <clange> @Timea see http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-449/ShortPaper2.pdf for an old, high-level overview
12:32:36 <fsasaki> http://fsasaki.github.io/stuff/feisgiltt2016/
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12:33:09 <fsasaki> felix: currently purely XSLT based solution, without an abstraction layer
12:33:31 <quentin> q+
12:33:32 <fsasaki> timea: classification of existing libraries, describe their drawbacks etc.
12:34:45 <fsasaki> christoph: would contribute to such a section
12:35:09 <quentin> depending on the complexity of the transformation, you can use XPATH and templates to populate the RDF
12:35:56 <fsasaki> action: timea to start section on existing tools & their classification, benefits and drawbacks - others to contribute
12:36:06 <fsasaki> ack qu
12:36:46 <fsasaki> quentin: you can also just use XPath and java @@@ and then are able to keep mappings
12:37:01 <fsasaki> ... you can do similar things from RDF > XML perspective, using SPARQL templates
12:37:15 <clange> q+
12:37:46 <fsasaki> timea: that sounds familiar how the XSLT is built; has a lot of tempaltes
12:37:55 <fsasaki> s/tempaltes/templates/
12:38:27 <fsasaki> timea: we transformed the XML in a simple RDF, and then converted RDF into the model needed
12:38:41 <fsasaki> ... ontolex / lemon + extension
12:38:44 <fsasaki> ack chri
12:39:11 <fsasaki> christioph: I have pointers to further systems, have seen a related paper
12:39:17 <fsasaki> ... will add a link here
12:39:30 <fsasaki> .. on roundtripping, let's not forget the XSParql specification
12:39:43 <fsasaki> .. it combines XQuery and SPARQL
12:39:58 <clange> SPARQL templates for RDF to XML have actually been implemented as a proper language: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01150623/document. XSPARQL (http://xsparql.deri.org/) does a similar job but it's IMHO more suited for queries over XML or RDF or both at the same time, rather than transforming whole RDF graphs or whole XML documents.
12:39:58 <fsasaki> ... it is better for query than complete transformation, but very interesting approaches
12:41:02 <quentin> there is an overlap between the two use-case in terms of transformation from 1 format to another
12:42:05 <fsasaki> felix: asking john on mark logic support for RDF and how it fits into the picture
12:42:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:43:52 <fsasaki> topic: other sections & topics
12:43:58 <fsasaki> nothing at the moment
12:44:41 <fsasaki> topic: next call in two weeks from now
12:44:44 <fsasaki> same time
12:46:37 <fsasaki> john: we are working on tech. to store RDF in XML
12:46:49 <fsasaki> .. also to make it easier to work with XML described by RDF graph
12:47:06 <fsasaki> ... interested to see in problems that people have and finding solutions
12:48:39 <fsasaki> adjourned
12:48:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
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