IRC log of rax on 2016-07-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:59:29 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-irc
11:59:33 [fsasaki]
meeting: RAX CG
11:59:37 [fsasaki]
chair: christian:
11:59:39 [fsasaki]
chair: christian
11:59:42 [fsasaki]
scribe: fsasaki
12:04:45 [jpcs]
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12:04:53 [fsasaki]
present+ felix, christian, gerard, john, timea
12:05:01 [fsasaki]
present+ christoph
12:05:26 [fsasaki]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0004.html
12:05:49 [fsasaki]
topic: new members
12:06:00 [fsasaki]
no new members, skipped
12:06:04 [fsasaki]
topic: action items
12:06:20 [quentin]
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present+ quentin
12:06:49 [fsasaki]
github link for rax cg is https://github.com/rax-w3c
12:07:39 [fsasaki]
topic: input from quentin et al.
12:07:40 [fsasaki]
see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0002.html
12:08:08 [clange]
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12:08:10 [fsasaki]
"One solution that we have used is to transform the RDF input (in any supported syntax) to be converted into a XML canonical form prior to applying XSLTs. "
12:08:43 [clange]
help
12:08:46 [fsasaki]
processing RDF data in XML / xslt workflows
12:09:00 [fsasaki]
christian: also covered by one XML prague scenario
12:09:08 [quentin]
canonical format new to be optimized for performance
12:10:23 [fsasaki]
christoph: similar solution is here https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rax/2016Jul/0007.html
12:10:40 [fsasaki]
... has RDF abstraction layer, this is independent of RDF output serialization
12:10:55 [fsasaki]
... related: what RDF abstract serialization to use
12:11:08 [Zakim]
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12:11:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:11:36 [fsasaki]
collection of state of the art canonical representations of RDF in XML
12:11:56 [fsasaki]
quentin: you should always optimize canonical format that you are processsing
12:11:57 [clange]
there is, e.g., RXR (Regular XML RDF), there is TriX, and there are more
12:12:28 [clange]
q?
12:12:36 [fsasaki]
quentin: XSLT is generally not enough, one needs libraries on top of XSLT
12:14:46 [fsasaki]
christian: "processing RDF data in XML / xslt workflows" - important topic, has several solutions, we need to collect info what works good, what not etc.
12:14:52 [clange]
sources for the canonical formats mentioned above: RXR (https://www.dajobe.org/papers/xmleurope2004/), TriX (https://www.w3.org/2004/03/trix/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TriX_(syntax) )
12:14:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:15:10 [clange]
AFAIK there is also a newer approach based on the SPARQL XML results format
12:16:06 [clange]
q+
12:16:47 [fsasaki]
ack ch
12:17:02 [fsasaki]
https://github.com/rax-w3c
12:17:35 [clange]
@fsasaki my GitHub account is "clange"
12:18:03 [TimeaT]
my GitHub is theRealImy
12:18:15 [quentin]
@fasaki my GitHub is qhreul
12:18:23 [fsasaki]
action: felix to add people to rax-cg github
12:18:44 [quentin]
q+
12:18:57 [fsasaki]
ack cl
12:19:00 [clange]
q-
12:19:41 [fsasaki]
quentin: happy to do the description. won't be able to go through all material that christoph provided
12:19:47 [fsasaki]
christoph: happy to help
12:19:56 [clange]
q+
12:20:18 [fsasaki]
action: quention to start section on RDF data in XML / xslt workflows topic. christoph to add material
12:20:49 [fsasaki]
ack qu
12:20:52 [fsasaki]
ack cl
12:21:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:21:44 [TimeaT]
q+
12:22:31 [fsasaki]
ack TimeaT
12:23:03 [fsasaki]
TimeaT: previous problems, solutions were sent directly per mail. there was also a template, not sure how to send input
12:23:29 [fsasaki]
regrets+ rob, phil
12:24:00 [fsasaki]
Christian: use the template, send to the list
12:24:08 [clange]
BTW my colleagues will write up their two use cases (AutomationML Industry 4.0 and GATE NLP) by the next telco.
12:25:06 [fsasaki]
topic: mapping XML of dictionary data to RDF
12:25:42 [fsasaki]
timea: dictionary company stores data in XML format, for further publishing. They wanted to bring XML into RDF, to be able to enrich dictionaries
12:26:01 [fsasaki]
... they can be multi- or monolingual, because language is complex
12:26:14 [fsasaki]
... need a way to convert XML to RDF
12:26:45 [fsasaki]
.... for working with dictionaries you have to use lemon / ontolex, which may be extended
12:26:51 [fsasaki]
... solved currently with XSLT
12:27:08 [fsasaki]
... writing the XSLT proved to be very long and tedious
12:27:24 [fsasaki]
... not sure if we can achieve a general XSLT
12:27:38 [fsasaki]
.... next step is how to connect words between dictionaries
12:27:54 [fsasaki]
... we reached very good point with XSLT, just wondering if there is a better way
12:27:59 [clange]
q+
12:28:08 [fsasaki]
felix: so no integration of RDF in XML needed?
12:28:27 [fsasaki]
timea: would have been desired, but dropped because XML mapping took a long time
12:29:06 [fsasaki]
... roundtripping is difficult
12:29:29 [fsasaki]
... not sure if it is needed
12:29:44 [fsasaki]
ack cl
12:30:02 [fsasaki]
christoph: for making it easier to create XML / RDF translation, there are solutions
12:30:12 [fsasaki]
... I have developed something, felix has one
12:30:25 [fsasaki]
... so this should be a part: write a classification of existing libraries
12:30:51 [fsasaki]
... e.g. libraries that are based on XSLT. You start with that and it becomes hard to maintain, then people add an abstraction layer
12:31:04 [fsasaki]
... adding link to my implementation here
12:31:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:31:19 [quentin]
for RDF -> XML, an approach could be to use SPARQL and XML templates
12:31:38 [quentin]
... essentially creating registere queries
12:31:47 [clange]
https://github.com/EIS-Bonn/krextor is a library of XSLT templates and functions for XML to RDF
12:32:05 [fsasaki]
timea: we used "unified views", etl tool that read the XML and writes all data into virtuoso
12:32:20 [fsasaki]
... the actual mapping if endepend of unified views
12:32:22 [clange]
@Timea see http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-449/ShortPaper2.pdf for an old, high-level overview
12:32:36 [fsasaki]
http://fsasaki.github.io/stuff/feisgiltt2016/
12:33:04 [Gerard_Kuys]
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12:33:09 [fsasaki]
felix: currently purely XSLT based solution, without an abstraction layer
12:33:31 [quentin]
q+
12:33:32 [fsasaki]
timea: classification of existing libraries, describe their drawbacks etc.
12:34:45 [fsasaki]
christoph: would contribute to such a section
12:35:09 [quentin]
depending on the complexity of the transformation, you can use XPATH and templates to populate the RDF
12:35:56 [fsasaki]
action: timea to start section on existing tools & their classification, benefits and drawbacks - others to contribute
12:36:06 [fsasaki]
ack qu
12:36:46 [fsasaki]
quentin: you can also just use XPath and java @@@ and then are able to keep mappings
12:37:01 [fsasaki]
... you can do similar things from RDF > XML perspective, using SPARQL templates
12:37:15 [clange]
q+
12:37:46 [fsasaki]
timea: that sounds familiar how the XSLT is built; has a lot of tempaltes
12:37:55 [fsasaki]
s/tempaltes/templates/
12:38:27 [fsasaki]
timea: we transformed the XML in a simple RDF, and then converted RDF into the model needed
12:38:41 [fsasaki]
... ontolex / lemon + extension
12:38:44 [fsasaki]
ack chri
12:39:11 [fsasaki]
christioph: I have pointers to further systems, have seen a related paper
12:39:17 [fsasaki]
... will add a link here
12:39:30 [fsasaki]
.. on roundtripping, let's not forget the XSParql specification
12:39:43 [fsasaki]
.. it combines XQuery and SPARQL
12:39:58 [clange]
SPARQL templates for RDF to XML have actually been implemented as a proper language: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01150623/document. XSPARQL (http://xsparql.deri.org/) does a similar job but it's IMHO more suited for queries over XML or RDF or both at the same time, rather than transforming whole RDF graphs or whole XML documents.
12:39:58 [fsasaki]
... it is better for query than complete transformation, but very interesting approaches
12:41:02 [quentin]
there is an overlap between the two use-case in terms of transformation from 1 format to another
12:42:05 [fsasaki]
felix: asking john on mark logic support for RDF and how it fits into the picture
12:42:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
12:43:52 [fsasaki]
topic: other sections & topics
12:43:58 [fsasaki]
nothing at the moment
12:44:41 [fsasaki]
topic: next call in two weeks from now
12:44:44 [fsasaki]
same time
12:46:37 [fsasaki]
john: we are working on tech. to store RDF in XML
12:46:49 [fsasaki]
.. also to make it easier to work with XML described by RDF graph
12:47:06 [fsasaki]
... interested to see in problems that people have and finding solutions
12:48:39 [fsasaki]
adjourned
12:48:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/08-rax-minutes.html fsasaki
14:58:05 [Zakim]
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