IRC log of webtv on 2016-07-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:03:11 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #webtv

13:03:11 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/06-webtv-irc

13:03:21 [kaz]

present: Kaz, Alexandra, Nilo, Steve

13:04:14 [colin]

colin has joined #webtv

13:05:01 [Nilo]

Nilo has joined #webtv

13:05:41 [kaz]

present+ Colin

13:06:58 [kaz]

zakim, pick a scribe

13:06:58 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Nilo

13:07:04 [kaz]

zakim, pick a scribe

13:07:04 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Steve

13:07:23 [kaz]

zakim, pick a scribe

13:07:23 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Colin

13:07:47 [kaz]

zakim, pick myself :)

13:07:47 [Zakim]

I'm glad that smiley is there, kaz

13:07:56 [kaz]

scribenick: kaz

13:08:43 [kaz]

alex: great that ActiveVideo has joined W3C :)

13:09:42 [kaz]

Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2016Jun/0001.html

13:10:02 [kaz]

alex: Colin made great job for the draft document

13:10:14 [kaz]

... will share the screen

13:11:25 [kaz]

colin: created a separate page

13:11:57 [kaz]

... will go to the page and introduce it

13:12:43 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/Introduction_cloud_browser Colin's write-up

13:14:17 [kaz]

colin: short introduction about what "Cloud Browser" is like

13:14:52 [kaz]

... the first diagram shows a "Local browser"

13:15:05 [kaz]

... and the second one shows a "Cloud browser"

13:15:34 [kaz]

s/second/second one and the following ones/

13:17:14 [kaz]

... "orchestration" responsible for communication between the client and cloud browser, etc.

13:17:23 [kaz]

nilo: need to define "orchestration"

13:17:49 [kaz]

colin: ok, we should update the main architecture document with the definition

13:18:55 [kaz]

... "rte" (Runtime Environment)

13:19:02 [kaz]

... Each client need to implement a small part which should be standardized to be vendor interchangeable

13:19:24 [kaz]

... identifying the gaps with the existing standards

13:20:03 [kaz]

... important to identify who uses resources

13:20:41 [kaz]

... For example, in the case of EME, this could be a problem because the media is send in the clear from the orchestration to the rte.

13:20:49 [alexandra-mikityuk]

q?

13:20:52 [kaz]

q+

13:21:08 [kaz]

nilo: very nice

13:21:43 [kaz]

... maybe you might want to expand the sentence saying "This is not the only task"

13:21:48 [kaz]

colin: right

13:21:55 [kaz]

... still generating the text

13:22:03 [kaz]

... and would like to improve it

13:22:16 [kaz]

... also want to edit the last block

13:22:27 [kaz]

alex: tx, Colin!

13:22:30 [kaz]

... 2 comments

13:22:45 [kaz]

... wanted to ask about the display example

13:22:58 [kaz]

... do you also address display as a client?

13:23:09 [kaz]

colin: have to add communication use case

13:23:41 [kaz]

alex: another one is

13:23:46 [kaz]

... a bit confused

13:24:05 [kaz]

... we wanted to establish standard APIs

13:24:36 [kaz]

... address browser vendors are expected to implement the API

13:25:09 [kaz]

... who has implementation?

13:25:22 [kaz]

... implemented by the browser itself

13:25:27 [kaz]

... or by the environment

13:25:43 [kaz]

... we should clarify that

13:25:47 [kaz]

colin: good question

13:26:17 [kaz]

... cloud browser without any change can use the API

13:26:50 [kaz]

... compatible API or vendor specific one

13:27:17 [kaz]

... sometimes communication between orchestration and environment

13:27:46 [kaz]

alex: three logical groups

13:28:26 [kaz]

... rte, gaps towards JS api, and implementation by Google/Microsof, etc.

13:28:45 [kaz]

... we have risk people won't implement our APis

13:29:11 [kaz]

... possibly implemented by Google/Mozilla

13:29:36 [kaz]

colin: cloud browser api?

13:29:57 [kaz]

alex: maybe there are something executed by the browser itself

13:30:08 [kaz]

colin: rte is something simple here

13:30:38 [kaz]

... cloud browser could be different from Android OS

13:31:39 [kaz]

alex: is the JS logic part of browser?

13:31:45 [kaz]

... or rte?

13:32:11 [kaz]

colin: API should be part of the cloud browser

13:32:23 [kaz]

... but should not be a specific cloud browser api

13:32:58 [kaz]

alex: MSE, EME or TV Control API, etc.

13:33:42 [kaz]

nilo: most compelling part is that application shouldn't change

13:34:38 [kaz]

... don't have to care about whether local or not

13:35:42 [kaz]

colin: we're able to do that

13:36:17 [kaz]

alex: requirements for cloud browser

13:36:36 [kaz]

s/requirements/maybe could put as requirements/

13:37:10 [kaz]

colin: maybe we could have use cases which don't depend on the mechanism (local or not)

13:37:16 [kaz]

alex: ok

13:37:30 [kaz]

... and you could expand the text as well

13:38:08 [kaz]

... we'll work with existing groups to see gaps

13:38:29 [kaz]

nilo: clarification question

13:39:14 [kaz]

colin: hoped to explain much more in the architecture section

13:39:25 [kaz]

... but started this separate article

13:39:37 [kaz]

q?

13:39:44 [alexandra-mikityuk]

q?

13:41:35 [kaz]

kaz: @@@

13:41:46 [kaz]

... what is done on which side

13:42:00 [kaz]

... and data transfer, etc., should be clarified

13:42:04 [kaz]

colin: good question

13:42:22 [kaz]

... orchestration deals with abstraction

13:42:37 [kaz]

... tuner api also is abstracted by orchestration

13:43:01 [kaz]

... we could implement tuner api

13:43:10 [kaz]

... and cloud browser could use that

13:43:28 [kaz]

... but how orchestration would do is fairly complicated

13:44:56 [kaz]

kaz: "orchestration" sounds similar to UI integration, i.e., multimodal interaction

13:45:05 [kaz]

colin: would see that spec as well

13:45:38 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2013/10/mmi-charter.html multimodal interaction charter

13:46:20 [kaz]

kaz: maybe state transition capability would be useful for cloud browser too

13:46:24 [kaz]

colin: should look at that

13:46:48 [alexandra-mikityuk]

q?

13:46:56 [kaz]

ack k

13:47:06 [kaz]

alex: tx a lot, Colin

13:47:22 [kaz]

... would be great if you could add a link from the main architecture page to this introduction wiki

13:47:24 [kaz]

colin: ok

13:47:47 [kaz]

alex: shaping the scope is great

13:48:23 [kaz]

... if we're ok with this, have another question on the architecture doc

13:50:00 [kaz]

topic: Main Architecture wiki

13:50:22 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/Architecture main architecture wiki

13:50:26 [kaz]

alex: we have 4 models

13:51:02 [kaz]

... we have "primary approaches" and "secondary approaches"

13:51:21 [kaz]

... and have "Cloud Browser Lifecycle"

13:51:57 [kaz]

... and "Terminology"

13:52:09 [kaz]

... and then "Evolution of the TV UI"

13:52:24 [kaz]

... and "Architecture" section after that

13:53:12 [kaz]

... sometimes to use cloud browsers

13:53:27 [kaz]

... in that case we use local browser

13:54:28 [kaz]

... diagrams of main/primary approaches and secondary approaches

13:54:37 [kaz]

... "Functions" section

13:54:48 [kaz]

... comments welcome

13:54:59 [kaz]

... good description we would address

13:55:07 [kaz]

colin: much more clear now

13:55:12 [kaz]

... good improvement

13:55:31 [kaz]

alex: tx!

13:56:47 [kaz]

... the TF Charter wiki says the deadline is 23 Sep.

13:58:00 [kaz]

kaz: we can extend the TF period :)

13:58:14 [kaz]

... we can send an announcement/proposal to the IG list

13:58:20 [kaz]

alex: ok

13:58:55 [kaz]

kaz: we can publish this architecture wiki after converting to HTML

13:59:09 [kaz]

alex: review for a few weeks

14:00:33 [kaz]

... we need to handle the session use cases as well

14:00:47 [kaz]

-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2016Jul/0001.html session use case discussion

14:01:20 [kaz]

alex: what is your view on session handling

14:01:24 [kaz]

s/handling/handling?/

14:01:41 [kaz]

... who would handle/establish sessions?

14:01:54 [kaz]

colin: could be both

14:02:09 [kaz]

... orchestration also called as session manager

14:02:48 [kaz]

alex: is it valid to use session id?

14:02:57 [kaz]

colin: yes

14:03:36 [kaz]

alex: in some case, the application has complete capability to handle sesson

14:04:05 [kaz]

colin: has just read this message

14:04:16 [kaz]

... client sets up the connection

14:04:50 [kaz]

alex: if we destroy the session, every entity in the framework could destroy it?

14:05:05 [kaz]

... or only the guy who created can destroy?

14:05:12 [kaz]

colin: both should be possible

14:06:12 [kaz]

kaz: in that case the guy (who didn't create the session but would destroy the session) need to get the session id and permission to destroy the session

14:07:07 [kaz]

alex: before writing the concrete use cases, would be good to have description on every entity within the architecture

14:07:22 [kaz]

... who could destroy whom

14:07:38 [kaz]

... if you have any opinions, please respond to the email

14:07:45 [alexandra-mikityuk]

q?

14:07:58 [kaz]

colin: question regarding TPAC

14:08:05 [kaz]

... never joined TPAC sessions

14:08:14 [kaz]

... most of us are going to TPAC?

14:08:17 [kaz]

alex: yes

14:08:48 [kaz]

... as a part of the main Web&TV IG, we'll get a session during the f2f

14:09:04 [kaz]

... TF update, etc.

14:09:13 [kaz]

... have already contacted the Chairs

14:09:33 [Nilo]

what are the dates of the TPAC?

14:09:42 [kaz]

... would have a specific session for cloud browser discussion

14:10:22 [kaz]

kaz: TPAC will be held Sep. 19-23

14:11:37 [kaz]

alex: can extend the meeting schedule?

14:11:42 [kaz]

kaz: need to pay more

14:11:54 [kaz]

... but we can use Wednesday for additional discussion

14:12:06 [kaz]

... using the breakout meeting

14:12:33 [kaz]

kaz: will remind the IG co-Chairs of the TPAC schedule

14:12:39 [kaz]

alex: ok

14:12:48 [kaz]

... please review the architecture wiki

14:13:00 [kaz]

... also look at the use case document as well

14:13:10 [kaz]

... the next meeting will be held in 2 weeks

14:13:17 [Nilo]

ok, bye

14:13:40 [kaz]

[ adjourned ]

14:15:16 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:15:22 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:15:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/06-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:18:03 [kaz]

Meeting: Web and TV IG - Cloud Browser TF

14:18:10 [kaz]

Chair: Alexandra

14:18:33 [kaz]

i/great that/topic: Architecture introduction/

14:18:36 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:18:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/06-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:19:46 [kaz]

s/@@@/TV Control API could be used on the Cloud Browser side/

14:20:07 [kaz]

s/what is done on which side/need to clarify what is done on which side/

14:20:25 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:20:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/06-webtv-minutes.html kaz