18:46:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:46:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-aapi-irc
18:46:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
18:46:27 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:46:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:46:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:46:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
18:46:30 <trackbot> Date: 28 June 2016
18:46:57 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 05-Jul-2016, 20:00 UTC)
18:47:20 <clown> agenda: this
18:47:26 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-1029 (All) Mappings for separator when it is a window-splitter.
18:47:37 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1696 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts.
18:47:46 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:47:58 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1698 (Joanie) Quick update re: AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts.
18:48:04 <clown> agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
18:48:11 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:48:19 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:48:27 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
18:48:32 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:52:43 <clown> brb
18:59:43 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
18:59:48 <joanie> scribe: joanie
18:59:56 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:01:09 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:01:31 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:01:33 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:02:57 <clown> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:06:10 <Rich> Rich has joined #aapi
19:06:16 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:06:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-1029 (All) Mappings for separator when it is a window-splitter." taken up [from clown]
19:08:19 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-separator
19:08:20 <joanie> JS: We can start with UIA mappings.
19:08:31 <joanie> JS: Here's the URL (above) to what I've done.
19:08:43 <joanie> JS: (Reads UIA mapping)
19:09:30 <joanie> CS: I doesn't need to say that because aria-expanded is already mapped to ExpandCollapse Pattern.
19:09:43 <joanie> CS: Is there an implied aria-expanded on there?
19:09:49 <joanie> JS: Currently in the spec text, there is.
19:10:10 <joanie> RS: We can probably do that automatically in the mapping spec.
19:10:23 <joanie> JS: Then the text I put in there probably fits.
19:10:36 <joanie> CS: If the author puts in aria-expanded, we don't need to say it.
19:10:43 <cyns_> cyns_ has joined #aapi
19:10:45 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-separator
19:10:53 <joanie> CS: But if it's implied, we do need to add text to that effect.
19:11:11 <joanie> JS: I guess I should look at the tet.
19:11:20 <joanie> CS: What defines it as being an interactive window splitter.
19:11:27 <joanie> JS: Let me get the ARIA text.
19:11:49 <joanie> JD: It's in master now.
19:12:09 <joanie> JD: I have some proposed changes, but I'm waiting to hear back from Matt.
19:13:00 <joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#separator
19:13:16 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#separator
19:13:34 <joanie> JS: (Reads spec text found at above URL)
19:13:47 <joanie> CS: Is it just being focusable that defines it being an interactive widget?
19:14:09 <joanie> CS: If so, we should have explicit text. "If focusable..."
19:14:32 <joanie> CS: Does "focusable" mean tabindex of 0 or -1?
19:14:53 <joanie> JS: It means tabindex of 0 or it can be an activedescendant.
19:15:03 <joanie> CS: Then say that, providing a link to the definition of focusable.
19:15:25 <joanie> JS: Because it say authors MAY use aria-expanded, does that mean the pattern should be there?
19:15:36 <joanie> CS: It's not necessary because that's in the pattern table.
19:15:42 <joanie> JS: Ok, then I'll take the pattern out.
19:15:47 <joanie> JS: One fine thing:
19:15:57 <joanie> JS: (Reads from the spec about value)
19:16:29 <joanie> JS: I think Joanie wants to change the value MAY statement to a MUST.
19:16:33 <joanie> JD: Yes.
19:18:28 <joanie> JS: If the MUST change goes through, does UIA have a mapping for that?
19:18:44 <joanie> CS: In UIA, the panes are what have sizes; the splitter is just the thumb.
19:19:00 <Rich> yes
19:19:10 <clown> action:  Cynthia to double check potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes position.
19:19:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2089 - Double check potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes position. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2016-07-05].
19:19:28 <joanie> CS: If the events are happening in another part of the tree, I'm not sure how to express that.
19:19:36 <joanie> RS: What events are there?
19:19:38 <clown> action-2089
19:19:38 <trackbot> action-2089 -- Cynthia Shelly to Double check potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes position. -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN
19:19:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089
19:19:55 <joanie> JS: I believe that the splitter is between the two panes, and the panes have size-change events.
19:20:07 <joanie> RS: So it sounds like you're not using expand/collapse.
19:20:13 <joanie> CS: No, we're not.
19:20:58 <joanie> RS: So why do we need to support expand/collapse?
19:21:03 <joanie> CS: We don't for me.
19:21:11 <joanie> s/me/my platform/
19:21:17 <joanie> JD: We don't for mine either.
19:21:48 <joanie> RS: We might need it for Apple.
19:22:10 <joanie> JS: I think James did say they need it.
19:22:32 <joanie> JS: Pending Cynthia's action to verify value events....
19:22:39 <joanie> CS: I should hopefully know next week.
19:22:50 <joanie> JS: I'll add text about focusable for all platforms.
19:22:57 <joanie> JS: I'll link to the definition of focusable.
19:23:13 <joanie> JS: And I'll take out the Expand/Collapse Pattern.
19:23:35 <joanie> CS: Actually, there's a holiday.
19:25:36 <joanie> JS: Regarding ATK/AT-SPI:
19:25:43 <joanie> JS: (Reads mapping)
19:26:24 <joanie> JS: And the value interface?
19:26:37 <joanie> JD: Yes, in ATK/AT-SPI2 it is needed.
19:27:05 <joanie> CS: I think we might ignore the value in UIA.
19:28:51 <joanie> (Discussion about what, if anything, expands/collapses with respect to the splitter)
19:29:47 <joanie> JS: I'm going to then remove the STATE_EXPANDABLE and STATE_EXPANDED
19:30:28 <joanie> CS: I think that makes sense that we only expose it if the author provides it.
19:30:41 <joanie> JD: I want it removed, thanks!
19:31:04 <joanie> JS: For now, I'm going to use the mapping for ATK/AT-SPI2 for my tentative mapping for MSAA/IA2.
19:31:15 <joanie> JS: And hope that James Teh and Alex like it.
19:32:37 <joanie> JS: I have a mapping for AXAPI
19:32:44 <joanie> JD: Do you know for sure?
19:32:49 <joanie> JS: I don't know for sure.
19:32:56 <joanie> JD: Let's email Chris and James then.
19:33:26 <joanie> action Joanie to verify splitter mappings for AXAPI
19:33:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2090 - Verify splitter mappings for axapi [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-07-05].
19:33:33 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:33:33 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1696 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts." taken up [from clown]
19:33:55 <joanie> Topic: Meeting next week?
19:34:18 <joanie> CS: If people are on vacation for the 4th of July....
19:35:46 <joanie> JS: It sounds like we're meeting.
19:36:16 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 2
19:36:16 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1696 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts." taken up [from clown]
19:36:25 <clown> action-1696
19:36:25 <trackbot> action-1696 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- due 2016-06-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:36:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
19:36:36 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts
19:37:10 <clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/76bc1cde613d96beb831b77557b05eea7e8381da
19:37:10 <joanie> JS: On aria-keyshortcuts for ATK/AT-SPI2:
19:37:19 <joanie> JS: I made the changes that Joanie asked me to.
19:37:32 <joanie> JS: First URL is the spec, second is the commit.
19:38:03 <joanie> JD: Looks good to me.
19:38:09 <joanie> JS: I did verify it in Firefox too.
19:38:16 <joanie> JS: I'm going to close action-1696.
19:38:34 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:38:34 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1698 (Joanie) Quick update re: AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts." taken up [from clown]
19:38:45 <clown> action-1698
19:38:45 <trackbot> action-1698 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose AXAPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN
19:38:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698
19:39:09 <joanie> JS: I put this on the agenda because we said we'd touch base this week.
19:39:10 <clown> AXARIAKeyboardShortcuts
19:39:23 <joanie> JS: We have an answer. It's the above property.
19:39:29 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jun/0271.html
19:39:34 <joanie> JS: Chris from Apple applied on the list. URL is above.
19:39:44 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jun/0273.html
19:40:00 <joanie> JS: I replied to him asking if it was a string.
19:40:07 <joanie> JS: I don't think he's responded yet.
19:40:24 <joanie> JD: On those properties, I'm nearly positive everything is a string.
19:40:30 <joanie> JS: I'll get that done next week.
19:40:43 <joanie> JS: Once I get it done I'll bring it up for final review.
19:40:51 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:40:51 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
19:41:18 <clown> action-1735
19:41:18 <trackbot> action-1735 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Edit role mappings for elements borrowed from html (canvas, iframe, audio, video) to refer to the html mapping spec -- due 2015-10-16 -- OPEN
19:41:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1735
19:41:39 <joanie> JS: Is this a Core AAM action, really?
19:41:43 <joanie> RS: Why do I have that?
19:41:46 <joanie> JS: No idea.
19:41:51 <joanie> RS: I don't know why canvas.
19:42:01 <joanie> RS: We have referred to the mapping for the host language.
19:42:22 <joanie> RS: I don't know what our todo is here.
19:42:36 <joanie> RS: They can refer to us, but at the end of the day, they own the mapping.
19:43:18 <joanie> RS: So it's not anything for us to do as far as I know.
19:43:37 <joanie> JS: Do we have audio and video and iframe?
19:43:45 <joanie> RS: We have audio and video in SVG.
19:44:06 <joanie> JS: There's img
19:44:22 <joanie> RS: (Reads from SVG mapping spec)
19:44:30 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#role_definitions
19:44:37 <joanie> RS: They map to the HTML elements.
19:45:30 <joanie> RS: Even for canvas.
19:45:35 <joanie> JS: Can we close this action.
19:45:39 <joanie> RS: I think so, yes.
19:45:52 <joanie> RS: We point to the host language.
19:46:05 <joanie> JS: Closed.
19:46:31 <clown> action-1692
19:46:31 <trackbot> action-1692 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:46:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1692
19:46:36 <joanie> JS: There are a bunch of aria-errormessage actions.
19:46:59 <joanie> JD: This is stalled.
19:47:05 <joanie> JD: Though I thought Rich sent an email.
19:47:15 <joanie> JS: To James Teh on the IA2 list.
19:48:14 <joanie> JS: Probably... April?
19:48:24 <joanie> JS: There's been nothing on this list since April.
19:51:14 <clown> action-1738
19:51:14 <trackbot> action-1738 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine what the msaa+ia2 mapping for role="search" -- due 2015-11-17 -- OPEN
19:51:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1738
19:52:03 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-search
19:52:17 <joanie> JD: Why do I have that?
19:52:32 <joanie> JS: It's already mapped to landmark with "search" exposed via object attribute.
19:52:49 <joanie> RS: They're supposed to be adding the landmark role.
19:53:05 <joanie> JS: So I think this action is obsolete.
19:53:27 <joanie> JS: Closed
19:53:56 <clown> action-1745
19:53:56 <trackbot> action-1745 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Make a proposal to address issue-682 -- due 2015-11-26 -- OPEN
19:53:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1745
19:54:06 <clown> issue-682
19:54:06 <trackbot> issue-682 -- Clarify what happens to required owned childrens' roles when native host language parent is overridden with a WAI-ARIA role. -- open
19:54:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/682
19:54:24 <joanie> JS: This is vaguelly familiar.
19:54:45 <joanie> JS: The thing that causes the problem is this
19:54:48 <clown> <table role="dialog"> …</table>
19:55:17 <joanie> JS: So you have a table, but you give it a role of dialog. What happens to the tr, td, etc. instances.
19:55:35 <clown> <div role="dialog"><table> …</table> </div>
19:55:44 <joanie> JS: My proposal is that this is actually the same as the above.
19:56:03 <clown> table="presentation"
19:56:24 <joanie> JD: That has some technical issues.
19:56:48 <joanie> JS: So what do we do?
19:56:54 <joanie> RS: Why would authors do this?
19:57:02 <joanie> JS: The table is presentational.
19:57:13 <joanie> RS: Right, so I think the children become presentational.
19:57:17 <clown> <table role="dialog">  treat the table as presentational.
19:57:19 <clown> ?
19:57:28 <joanie> RS: Treat all the structural descendants of table as presentational.
19:57:35 <joanie> RS: And replace the table role with dialog.
19:57:38 <joanie> +1
19:57:48 <joanie> RS: That's probably the easiest thing to do.
19:58:12 <joanie> JD: I agree.
19:58:22 <joanie> RS: Is that an error condition?
19:58:34 <joanie> JS: Yeah, where would I put it in the Core AAM?
19:58:42 <joanie> RS: I think you'd add a section.
19:58:48 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_conflicts
19:58:54 <joanie> RS: What you really want to do... You could do it on a list as well.
20:00:07 <joanie> JD: I thought we already dealt with this.
20:00:18 <joanie> JD: I recall pushing to get the changes made by Alex in Gecko.
20:00:26 <joanie> JD: And making the changes myself in WebKitGtk.
20:00:28 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-none
20:00:40 <joanie> JD: So can we not put this content in that part of the spec.
20:00:54 <joanie> JS: Under the role mapping for none (reads text from spec)
20:01:29 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_conflicts
20:02:08 <joanie> JS: I think the section for it is here (above URL)
20:02:19 <joanie> JD: And link from that to the role none mapping.
20:02:24 <joanie> JS: I will do that soon.
20:04:59 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:04:59 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly
20:04:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:05:09 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:05:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:05:39 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
20:05:51 <joanie> present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
20:06:01 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:06:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:06:40 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:06:42 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:06:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:06:58 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop