12:02:33 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:02:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-wot-irc 12:02:39 present+ 12:02:58 toru has joined #wot 12:03:25 present+ Daniel_Peintner 12:03:48 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 12:04:06 present+ Toru_Kawaguchi 12:04:19 present+ Kaz 12:04:23 knimura has joined #wot 12:04:26 rrsagent, make log public 12:04:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:04:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:05:13 mkovatsc has joined #wot 12:05:47 joerg has joined #wot 12:06:07 michael has joined #wot 12:06:15 katsu has joined #wot 12:06:28 yingying has joined #wot 12:06:51 kaz_ has joined #wot 12:07:40 [ present now: Kaz, Dave, Michael, Daniel, Darko, Joerg, Kazuaki, Matthias, Pankesh, Takuki, Toru ] 12:08:18 zakim, pick a scribe 12:08:18 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dsr 12:08:29 scribenick: dsr 12:09:07 q+ 12:09:16 Topic: status updates 12:09:50 Daniel: I noticed that there are still some open issues in the old charter space, so we should clean these up. 12:10:02 Matthias: what space? 12:10:10 see https://github.com/w3c/charter-drafts/ 12:10:17 Sebastian: …. 12:10:18 sebastian has joined #wot 12:10:27 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 12:10:52 Matthias: we need to close our issues and remove the old draft 12:11:18 Kaz: we can add a status note to the old draft to point people to the new charter 12:11:28 … we can simply close the issues, right? 12:12:01 s/Toru/Toru, Yingying/ 12:12:05 Matthias: Sebastian, you could close them as a lot of them are yours, right? 12:12:33 ack kaz_ 12:12:34 I will ask Kaz to help with this 12:12:35 masato has joined #wot 12:12:35 q? 12:12:57 Kaz: I wanted to mention the status of the IG charter review 12:13:01 -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/wot-ig-2016/results ac review results 12:13:50 Kaz: So far we have 5 reviews and we need to get a lot more, and I want some help with reaching out 12:14:11 Matthias: so this is something for everyone in the IG to follow through on. 12:14:39 q? 12:14:54 Action: Joerg to email the IG list to ask people to contact their AC Reps to respond to the IG charter AC Review 12:14:54 Created ACTION-59 - Email the ig list to ask people to contact their ac reps to respond to the ig charter ac review [on Joerg Heuer - due 2016-06-29]. 12:15:12 s/results/results (member-only)/ 12:15:44 Topic: WG Charter Roadmap 12:16:14 Joerg: in Montreal I had some discussion with Jeff Jaffe (W3C CEO) on a roadmap for preparation of a WoT WG 12:16:32 (Joerg projects a slide with the roadmap) 12:17:00 He talks us through the roadmap 12:18:20 We had discussions in May on the draft charter. In June the idea is to agree on integration of comments by other stakeholders. 12:19:26 The roadmap also covers a milestone for the current practices document in the run up to Beijing 12:20:12 We’re also working on a public call for implementations. Daniel, can you give a status update on that? 12:20:41 Daniel: we sent that out and are collecting material on the wiki. 12:20:48 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Implementations 12:21:16 There are 2 more I will add later today 12:21:58 The deadline for final IG comments on the WG charter is 22nd June. 12:22:49 The idea is to encourage a peer to peer discussion with external contacts on the WG charter 12:23:07 This is expected to continue for 4 to 5 weeks 12:23:25 [ present+ Carsten, Frank, Katsuyoshi, Masato ] 12:24:29 In July, we want to record the outcome of the plugfest in Beijing, and to integrate comments into the WG charter. 12:25:12 In August, we want to finalize the WG charter and get it ready for AC Review in September 12:25:51 q+ 12:25:53 q+ 12:26:54 The aim is to have the WG launched six weeks or so after the AC Review starts 12:27:06 Joerg: any comments? 12:27:31 Dave: we’re missing milestones for the work on use case requirements and tech landscape 12:28:04 we need to document and encourage discussion on technologies which isn’t happening in the current practices doc 12:28:42 Matthias: we wanted to have public releases for these documents to show companies 12:29:25 katsu has joined #wot 12:29:27 I understand that we’re ready to do this for the architecture document and to then work on a more detailed architecture in the WG 12:31:51 katsu has joined #wot 12:31:56 Dave: We’ve been operating since the start of 2015, and it is kind of weird that we’ve not yet published any reports 12:33:03 We need to identify editors and then to trigger a call for comments on publishing a snap shot of the document as IG notes. This could last a week, and result in a formal resolution in the next IG call 12:33:08 q? 12:33:28 http://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/wot-ig-2016.html 12:33:52 Matthias: we have editors so that’s ok 12:35:49 Matthias summarises the editors involved, some of whom aren’t on the call today 12:36:10 Joerg: we need a clear understanding of what needs to be done 12:37:52 i/Joerg/kaz: I agree what you're saying is important, but we're now discussing "WG Charter Roadmap". So we should talk about IG document timeline later separately, shoulnd't we?/ 12:38:35 Kaz: can we defer the discussion of the publication of IG reports in a later agendum? 12:39:07 Joerg: we need to add the documents we plan to publish to the roadmap 12:39:31 cabo has joined #wot 12:39:54 Kaz: can we split the roadmap into one for the WG and another for the IG? 12:42:43 ack dape 12:42:44 Dave summarises the short term for the IG rechartering process and the need for discussion on what’s missing 12:43:05 Daniel: how are we going to publish the roadmap? 12:43:46 We need to provide roadmaps for the IG and the WG 12:44:07 Matthias: agreed that it should be publicly accessible, perhaps the wiki? 12:44:23 Daniel: my preference is for github for issue tracking 12:44:51 Matthias: the issues will be about the work, and not the roadmap so much 12:44:54 +1 to put the roadmap on the wiki and manage issues using github 12:45:37 Matthias: so let’s publish the roadmap on the wiki 12:45:37 ack kaz 12:46:50 Kaz: given that the roadmap has us closing the WG charter today, we should discuss this now. I chatted with Dave and others and we agree that we need to add content for the relationships to W3C and external groups ASAP. 12:47:42 s/ASAP./ASAP. Also we should review the draft charter specifically from the viewpoint of how to handle "semantic" and "abstraction"./ 12:47:46 Joerg: the idea for the current milestone is to be ready for outreach to external stakeholders. 12:48:24 I will update the roadmap to clarify this goal 12:49:20 Rephrase to [Milestone-Jun-4] Deadline for final comments on WG Charter for the purpose of P2P review comments (22nd of June) 12:49:25 Kaz: we can discuss the charter during the Beijing F2F 12:51:00 We should add a milestone in early September on IG release of the WG charter for AC Review 12:51:14 s/we can discuss the charter during the Beijing F2F/In that case, you actually mean we'll discuss the draft charter during the Beijing F2F as well./ 12:51:24 Add –[Milestone-Aug/Sep-2] Release Charter for AC review 12:52:39 Kaz: we should clarify the timing for bringing the WG Charter to W3M approval for the AC Review 12:54:26 Matthias: we expect to make changes following discussion in Beijing, and taking into account feedback from external stakeholders. 12:54:55 Dave: after that we need a IG Resolution on seeking W3M Approval for initiating the AC Review 12:54:57 q+ 12:56:41 Kaz: if we want to review the WG charter in Lisbon, we don’t want to seek W3M approval before then 12:57:02 ack toru 12:57:12 In other words we should have the resolution in Lisbon on Sep 19 12:57:41 Toru asks for clarification of the process 12:59:11 Kaz: the IG resolves to seek W3M approval for starting an AC Review. W3M then needs review from some W3M Members, resulting in some changes, and then W3M will approve the start of the review, which is then normally 4 week in duration. 12:59:16 q+ 12:59:19 Toru: is there a way to accelerate this? 13:00:05 Maybe we should start outreach to stakeholders in July 13:01:04 Kaz: some us have already started outreach with key stakeholders, but it can take quite a while to get results. 13:01:31 s/some/some of/ 13:01:43 q+ 13:01:50 If we want to accelerate the timescale we can bring forward the IG resolution to end of August with the aim of starting the AC Review in mid September 13:02:20 q? 13:02:24 Joerg: the stakeholder feedback is very important 13:02:51 and this may alter the timeline according to what we’re told 13:03:17 Proposal: bilateral outreach now, detailed review and issue collection in Beijing, start resolving issues and group resolution 2 weeks after Beijing, start W3C mgmt review directly so it is done at TPAC, start AC Review at TPAC for more promotion 13:03:22 s/but it can take quite a while to get results./but AC review will take 4 weeks in any way./ 13:03:22 ack mko 13:04:04 Matthias: we should start outreach now and collect the issues in Beijing and resolve then soon after 13:06:23 Dave recaps how we handled this for the IG charter 13:07:16 Matthias: we can use TPAC to reach out to the AC 13:07:39 Dave: Joerg could perhaps briefly talk about this during the AC meeting at TPAC 13:09:21 Joerg: so I should ask for an AC agendum on the WoT IG AC Review 13:09:35 Kaz: we should also use the plenary day for outreach 13:09:38 Dave: indeed 13:09:40 q? 13:10:50 Nimura-san: we will discuss the comments in Beijing, right? 13:10:53 Matthias: yes 13:10:53 ack knimura 13:11:22 jhund has joined #wot 13:11:51 just use f2f for comments resolution 13:11:52 Matthias: 2 issues open, one on capitalisation that I will deal with and another on being more neutral in respect to protocols 13:12:32 Daniel: we can remove the names of protocols in the WG charter 13:12:42 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues GitHub Issues 13:13:10 Sebastian: for security I can ask Oliver for rewording 13:13:25 Matthias: Oliver’s text was hard for non-experts to understand 13:14:09 Sebastian: we need to be neutral and try to find descriptions will reflect that 13:14:23 s/will/that/ 13:14:46 Matthias: the security section is the one that is most effected 13:15:11 q+ 13:15:40 Matthias: you need to give some concrete examples, e.g. in the introduction 13:15:59 Sebastian: in the introduction that’s fine, but we should be very careful in the scope section 13:16:11 q? 13:16:14 rrsagent, set logs public 13:16:45 ack kaz 13:17:16 Kaz: it should be okay to include examples so long as we made clear that these are just examples and not a prescriptive list 13:17:54 q? 13:17:58 Matthias: I will check the wording on this 13:18:14 Topic: Plugfest preparation 13:18:33 Matthias: we had the document freeze but there were a few things missing 13:18:52 We still need an explanation on security. 13:19:05 http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-beijing-2016.html 13:19:25 Daniel: we will include the links we had from the Sophia Antiplois F2F 13:20:06 Matthias: I created a copy of the document, see above link. Please review this and provide feedback on what’s missing 13:20:29 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 13:21:18 I also want to talk about discovery. We want to use a repository. There is a possibility for experimenting with ideas from the IETF and OCF 13:21:23 q+ 13:21:30 Who hsa used the respository? 13:21:44 Daniel: we have in the EU ThingWeb project 13:22:04 s/hsa/has/ 13:22:48 Matthias: would you be able to adapt the process quickly, so that it aligns with the CORE WG resource discovery approach 13:22:58 Daniel: yes this should be ok 13:24:20 Darko describes some details … 13:25:01 Matthias: perhaps some others using the client we provided? 13:25:53 Perhaps we can look at who was involved in the previous face to face meetings and check with them? 13:26:26 s/respository/repository/ 13:27:22 q? 13:27:25 Matthias: I will update the current practices document to include text on how the repository is supposed to work 13:27:45 ack dape 13:27:45 ack da 13:27:54 q- 13:28:05 [ present+ Johannes ] 13:28:15 Yingying tells us that we can 13:28:43 s/can/can’t use a router, but will be able to use a static block of IP addresses/ 13:28:53 yes. That's what I got from hotel IT person. 13:29:38 Matthias: we need to assign static IP addresses in the wiki, I can assign you an address when you register. 13:29:43 q+ 13:30:19 Michael will only be able to participate remotely 13:30:43 Michael: I will be in Berlin, but can’t make it to Beijing 13:31:10 Matthias: one of us can carry a router as a backup 13:31:41 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_July_2016,_China,_Beijing#Participation 13:32:10 s/IP addresses/IP addresses, and there is not need for a wifi password of HTTP based credentials/ 13:32:34 Matthias: we will list all of the IP settings on the wiki 13:33:07 Please enter what ever you’re bringing to Beijing in the wiki (see link above) 13:33:08 q? 13:33:11 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_July_2016,_China,_Beijing#Requirements 13:33:13 ack da 13:33:48 Daniel: we should encourage people to provide more details on their requirements, e.g. whether you need to add an external service so that we can test it. 13:34:11 Matthias: this especially applies to Panasonic 13:34:28 q? 13:34:33 Toru: for security reasons we don’t want to include the IP address on the wiki 13:34:51 Matthias: fine, just contact Daniel so we can update the test tool 13:35:21 Toru: we use skype for business, and would like to use that in Beijing 13:35:33 Daniel: that is hard for us to test 13:35:43 Kaz: and we can try webex as well 13:36:36 Kaz asks Yinying if she has tried skype and webex from the hotel network? 13:36:52 Yingying: we can try that tomorrow 13:36:54 q? 13:37:41 Topic: Any other business 13:38:30 Sebastian: just a reminder to Dave and Louay on web sockets and Bluetooth Smart where we’re expecting pull requests 13:39:04 Dave to chase Louay on that 13:39:20 Matthias: ok that’s it for today, bye! 13:39:25 rrsagent, make minutes 13:39:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-wot-minutes.html dsr 13:42:02 cabo has joined #wot 14:48:02 meeting: Web of Things IG 14:48:13 chair: Matthias 14:48:16 scribe: Dave 14:48:23 rrsagent, make minutes 14:48:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-wot-minutes.html dsr 15:56:07 Zakim has left #wot 17:39:53 dsr has joined #wot 18:10:14 cabo has joined #wot