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08:41:46 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
08:41:46 <trackbot> Date: 20 June 2016
08:42:01 <nikos> chair: nikos
08:42:03 <nikos> present+ nikos
08:42:08 <nikos> present+ Tav
08:42:16 <nikos> present+ AmeliaBR
08:42:38 <nikos> Meeting: Amsterdam editors meeting 2016
08:43:43 <stakagi> present+ stakagi
08:43:59 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #svg
08:48:53 <Tav> Tav has joined #svg
08:55:51 <nikos> For those following along at home, we are going to do some editing to start
08:56:08 <nikos> Then, we'll go through the open issues and work out what is critical for CR and what can be deferred
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10:11:23 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #svg
11:34:51 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #svg
11:37:23 <nikos> Topic: SVG 2 CR issue triage
11:37:31 <nikos> scribe: nikos
11:37:35 <nikos> scribenick: nikos
11:37:36 <nikos> Topic: SVG 2 CR issue triage
11:38:13 <nikos> nikos: The list of issues assigned to the CR milestone is at https://rawgit.com/nikosandronikos/svg2-cr-issues/master/svg2-cr-issues.html
11:39:04 <nikos> ... Anything that's not critical to the publication of CR - e.g. stuff that is just tidying up, or fixing lists, or markup we will move to another milestone
11:40:22 <nikos> ... Then we'll have the short list of stuff that must be done, which we'll work through at this meeting
11:41:22 <nikos>  Keep xlink:href in examples linked to in spec. #105
11:41:25 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/105
11:41:58 <nikos> AmeliaBR: Tav brought this one up, we got rid of xlink from all our embedded examples
11:42:45 <nikos> nikos: My issue with this is that we pull these examples into the spec as markup examples
11:42:58 <nikos> ... I don't think we should be recommending the use of xlink in those examples
11:43:14 <nikos> AmeliaBR: it's still best practice at the moment to use xlink
11:43:50 <nikos> nikos: In any case, we can move this and look at it after CR
11:44:32 <nikos>  Make "show" widget in element definitions boxes play nicely with screen readers #110
11:44:59 <nikos> nikos: This is just a template fix
11:45:11 <nikos> ... we just need to fix our markup, which we can do after CR
11:45:35 <nikos> nikos:  Rewrite all element descriptions to use normative language #111
11:45:42 <nikos> ... https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/111
11:45:48 <nikos> ... this one is big and very vague
11:46:08 <nikos> ... as I touch text I've been updating descriptions to use proper normative language
11:46:50 <nikos> ... I think we keep this in the CR, but it's not going to block publication
11:47:01 <nikos> ...  Remove redundant <dl> wrapper for the attribute table + prose block of each element #113
11:47:04 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/113
11:47:28 <nikos> nikos: this is another markup fix
11:47:59 <nikos> AmeliaBR: we shouldn't have a table embedded into a definition list
11:48:45 <nikos> ... Unfortunately I think this is more than template, we have to go over each chapter and do a sweep of the markup
11:49:06 <nikos> nikos: I'd rather just switch to bikeshed
11:49:50 <nikos> ... it's not urgent, we'll fix it after CR
11:50:05 <nikos> AmeliaBR: we need to document how our markup should be written
11:51:46 <nikos>  Does conditional processing mute sound playback? #44
11:51:53 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/44
11:52:00 <nikos> AmeliaBR: we talked about this on a call recently
11:52:26 <nikos> ... TabAtkins mentioned how he thought this would work, but my testing showed it was implemented differently
11:52:34 <nikos> ... and doesn't seem to be specced that way
11:52:41 <nikos> ... can't find anything in HTML about display:none
11:53:02 <nikos> ... HTML doesn't specifically spec one way or the other
11:53:13 <nikos> ... it's more than just display:none for SVG
11:53:16 <nikos> ... what happens if it's in defs
11:53:30 <nikos> ... or an unactivated part of switch
11:53:42 <nikos> ... I think this is more than something we can decide in a triage session
11:53:46 <nikos> ... it's definitely a CR issue
11:54:05 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/93
11:54:12 <nikos>  Review content model and allowed attributes on all elements #93
11:54:39 <nikos> nikos: definitely something needed before CR. Sounds like something a chair should do
11:54:47 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/94
11:54:51 <nikos> nikos:  Update Document Structure chapter to describe document's behaviour in terms of the DOM #94
11:55:09 <nikos> AmeliaBR: think this is editorial, to say that no matter how you create the DOM, it works the same way
11:55:31 <nikos> nikos: We'll make it CR2
11:55:39 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/99
11:55:43 <nikos> nikos:  We should define the behavior of ‘use’ in terms of Web Components #99
11:55:49 <nikos> AmeliaBR: that's CR and it's next on my todo list
11:56:07 <nikos> AmeliaBR: #101 and #102 are also CR and I'm working on them right now
11:56:16 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/116
11:56:19 <nikos>  Multilingual titles and ARIA fallbacks don't work well together #116
11:56:26 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I think this can be dealt with in authoring practices
11:56:29 <nikos> ... think we can take it off CR
11:57:10 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/117
11:57:14 <nikos>  Figure out where the list of aria-properties comes from, & sort them in logical/alphabetical order #117
11:57:22 <nikos> nikos: I did find where in the scripts this happens
11:57:29 <nikos> ... but didn't exactly work out how to fix it
11:57:39 <nikos> ... but it's CR2
11:58:03 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/139
11:58:09 <nikos> nikos:  Fix switch & conditional processing #139
11:58:14 <nikos> nikos: this is a meta issue
12:00:04 <nikos> ... most aspects have been addressed, some haven't but they have their own issues
12:00:11 <nikos> ... so we'll take this one off the milestone
12:00:43 <nikos> ... Takagi-san added a new proposal here which we'll talk about over lunch or  something and then discuss properly in a telcon
12:06:04 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/163
12:06:12 <nikos> nikos:  <script> and <style> content model should allow only character data. #163
12:06:23 <nikos> AmeliaBR: At the moment it just allows anything, not sure if anyone has tested that
12:06:33 <nikos> ... I expect you'll just get the text rather than objects
12:06:59 <nikos> Tav: can we resolve that we only allow character data?
12:07:39 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I'd like to. I'm writing a test
12:07:53 <nikos> AmeliaBR: nope, markup gets parsed as markup
12:09:10 <AmeliaBR> http://jsbin.com/qekuribufi/edit?html,console,output
12:09:57 <nikos> AmeliaBR: it's cross browser, FF, Edge, Chrome all parse that as a valid link
12:13:50 <nikos> Tav: why would you want to put an element inside?
12:14:08 <nikos> ... just because browsers parse it doesn't mean we have to spec it
12:14:23 <nikos> nikos: Let's leave it in CR and come back to it
12:14:42 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/74
12:14:48 <nikos> nikos:  Initial value for the 'rx' and 'ry' properties #74
12:15:16 <nikos> nikos: I think this is CR and Amelia has mostly taken care of it
12:15:36 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I'll take care of that this week
12:15:45 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/40
12:15:48 <nikos>  Full glyph cell term is not defined #40
12:16:00 <nikos> nikos: I defined this but wanted to check it with Tav
12:16:29 <nikos> ... We'll talk about it after triage
12:16:36 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/159
12:16:41 <nikos> nikos:  Update bounding box algorithm for inline-size #159
12:17:10 <nikos> nikos: we were talking about this yesterday, and couldn't remember why the bounding box width is always the same width as the content box
12:17:29 <nikos> AmeliaBR: my argument was that if you're calling getBBox() you're trying to find out information you don't know
12:17:48 <nikos> Tav: I counter that by saying what you don't know is the height, and that's what you want here
12:18:06 <nikos> AmeliaBR: so use getBBox() to get the height and get the inline-size value if that's what you need
12:18:31 <nikos> nikos: It makes more sense to me that you would get the actual bbox of the glyphs
12:18:41 <nikos> Tav: Ok, we'll go with that
12:19:21 <nikos> RESOLUTION: getBBox() on text that uses inline-size will return the union of the glyph cells rather than anything based on the content box
12:20:45 <nikos> Tav: this applies to bounding box that is used for paint servers also
12:21:04 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I think if you want predictable box behaviour, use text in a shape
12:21:38 <nikos> AmeliaBR: do we have special rules for text in a shape?
12:21:48 <nikos> ... is it the bounding box of the text or the shape?
12:21:53 <nikos> Tav: It should be the shape
12:22:20 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I'll update the issue to not those points
12:23:02 <nikos> Tav:
12:23:18 <nikos> Tav: I guess as the content box height increases the gradient is going to change as well
12:23:48 <nikos> ... so it probably not going to be as consistent as I'd like it to be anyway
12:24:26 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/49
12:24:31 <nikos> nikos:  `d` geometric property needs a clear & extensible name #49
12:24:42 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I added this to CR yesterday, not sure if there's anything that needs addressing
12:25:08 <nikos> nikos: we were only going to do the most basic option
12:25:18 <nikos> AmeliaBR: have a separate issue for that so let's take CR off the big issue
12:28:25 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/119
12:28:31 <nikos> nikos:  Make d a presentation attribute on path #119
12:28:59 <nikos> nikos: Tav said he'd do that
12:29:03 <nikos> Tav: I did?
12:29:09 <nikos> ... I'll do it this week
12:30:17 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/34
12:30:28 <nikos> nikos:  Adding default values for hanging and mathematical baselines #34
12:30:40 <nikos> Tav: We're just waiting on CSS to add this to their spec
12:30:46 <nikos> ... it's not a CR issue for us
12:31:22 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/125
12:31:27 <nikos> nikos: Spec behavior of ::before and ::after within SVG text #125
12:32:23 <nikos> Tav: I think we don't do anything with this one
12:32:28 <nikos> ... it's a lot of work to figure out how to handle it
12:32:47 <nikos> nikos: So we'll spec it up later in a module or something
12:33:56 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/88
12:34:02 <nikos> nikos:  Can we update image's href attribute description to reference HTML51's obtain the resource algorithm? #88
12:43:26 <AmeliaBR> Issue list: https://nikosandronikos.github.io/svg2-cr-issues/svg2-cr-issues.html
12:46:20 <nikos> nikos: This is an area I'm comfortable making changes
12:46:30 <nikos> AmeliaBR: it's really just editorial if we're just referencing HTML
12:47:33 <nikos> ... Would be better to reference HTML, we don't want to unintentionally introduce variations
12:47:43 <nikos> ... someone needs to sit and go through and work out what the differences are
12:48:13 <nikos> nikos: Let's leave it as CR for the moment and see if we get time to look at it
12:48:29 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/150
12:48:33 <nikos> nikos:  Simplify <image> element content model #150
12:48:41 <nikos> AmeliaBR: this is CR, should be a case of going through definitions.xml and cleaning up
12:48:59 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/160
12:49:03 <nikos> nikos:  some remaining preserveAspectRatio="defer" wording needs removing #160
12:49:11 <nikos> AmeliaBR: this is another editorial issue
12:50:19 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/64
12:50:30 <nikos> nikos: Marker element percentages are missing reference values #64
12:58:18 <nikos> nikos: I resolved most of this last week
12:58:32 <nikos> ... didn't close issue because I wanted to talk about markerWidth and markerHeight percentages
12:58:39 <nikos> ... I think since UAs support them we leave it in
12:58:58 <nikos> AmeliaBR: issue of what viewport the percentages are resolved against is part of a bigger bug - not marker specific
12:59:25 <nikos> nikos: I'll take off CR milestone and note that we need to file a bug on the browsers
13:02:03 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/141
13:02:08 <nikos> nikos:  Define how to interpolate multiple paints in fill and stroke #141
13:02:19 <nikos> AmeliaBR: this is about making it clear
13:02:28 <nikos> ... not sure if we need to do too much or if we can just reference css
13:02:54 <nikos> ... as far as multiples go, CSS has a rule that you pair things up and if you have the same number of elements in each list you interpolate between them
13:10:46 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #svg
13:11:15 <nikos> s/This is an area I'm comfortable making changes/This is an area I'm not comfortable making changes
13:12:06 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I can take a look and  see if there's tidy up to be done. But I think it's related to the new issues I added
13:12:20 <nikos> ... https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/167
13:12:26 <nikos> ... https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/168
13:12:50 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/87
13:12:55 <nikos>  Add diagram for mapping points inside Coon's patch to gradient vales #87
13:12:58 <nikos> nikos: definitely not CR
13:13:05 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/121
13:13:10 <nikos> nikos: Limit pattern & gradient attributes that are inheritable using href #121
13:13:57 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I said I'd look at this one, but I've been delaying until I look at how things will be defined in terms of shadow dom
13:20:06 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/135
13:20:11 <nikos> nikos: Shouldn't gradientTransform precede object bounding box to user space conversion? #135
13:20:30 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I've been planning to sit down and work this out, to see if there is an issue there
13:20:42 <nikos> ... feel free to pick it up if you're keen
13:21:00 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/140
13:21:04 <nikos>  Define how meshes are rendered when children of shapes #140
13:21:17 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I think the real issue is whether we should have meshes being a renderable obejct
13:21:21 <nikos> s/obect/object
13:21:35 <nikos> ... we have paint servers as children of other elements
13:21:47 <nikos> ... so we need special rules for meshes if they're going to be geometry elements
13:21:59 <nikos> ... the bigger issue is where paint servers and shapes have different dom representations
13:22:44 <nikos> nikos: we could have mesh and meshGradient and they have the appropriate interface
13:23:03 <nikos> AmeliaBR: I was thinking we could have a path that automatically takes on the shape of the mesh
13:23:11 <nikos> ... but that might be complicated with css
13:28:38 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/26
13:28:44 <nikos> nikos:  Two questions about the `<a>` element #26
13:29:03 <nikos> AmeliaBR: we have a resolution, it may need revising
13:29:08 <nikos> ... the html parser doesn't allow nested elements
13:30:01 <nikos> ... the other question is should we borrow the html link attributes like rel, etc
13:30:07 <nikos> ... think we agreed and I was going to add them
13:30:14 <nikos> ... but links and nested may need to be revisited
13:30:20 <nikos> ... if anyone else wants to take this on, go ahead
13:31:50 <nikos> ... tests shows that it's still two links - not broken into three
13:31:58 <nikos> ... so whatever I saw about the html parser may not be true
13:32:33 <nikos> ... ohhh, Cameron had to inject the second link using script
13:32:37 <nikos> ... so parser doesn't allow it
13:36:41 <nikos> nikos: we'll need to resolve one way or the other before CR
13:36:44 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/61
13:36:52 <nikos> nikos: Possible to use `<use xlink:href="#id">` in the presence of an HTML `<base>` element? #61
13:37:10 <nikos> nikos: This one stays, just needs editing
13:37:21 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/52
13:37:26 <nikos> nikos:  Error Processing should talk about when to use initial values for attributes #52
13:38:10 <nikos> nikos: I think this one is already resolved, its just that the link to 'error processing' on viewbox isn't helpful
13:40:48 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/71
13:40:55 <nikos> nikos:  SVG 2 has un-used references #71
13:41:01 <nikos> ... this one is post cr
13:41:25 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/82
13:41:35 <nikos> nikos: Property index (appendix) needs updating #82
13:41:40 <nikos> nikos: think this can be done after CR
13:42:04 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/83
13:42:10 <nikos> nikos:  Can we remove presentation attribute / element table from Attribute Index appendix? #83
13:44:24 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/84
13:44:34 <nikos> nikos: Define conformance classes without reference to feature strings #84
13:44:55 <nikos> AmeliaBR: We need to do this one before CR
13:46:28 <nikos> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/85
13:46:36 <nikos> nikos:  Update SVG DOM object initialisation to reflect promoted properties #85
13:47:24 <nikos> AmeliaBR: think we talked about DOM properties not reflecting the computed style, only the value of the presentation attribute
14:12:52 <nikos> Topic: Full glyph cell for vertical text
14:13:03 <nikos> Tav: For vertical text, use the vertical advance and em box width
14:13:09 <nikos> nikos: what happens if font has no vertical advance
14:13:16 <nikos> Tav: use the em box height
15:04:35 <nikos> rrsagent, make minutes
15:04:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-svg-minutes.html nikos