12:00:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
12:00:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-irc
12:00:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:00:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:00:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:00:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
12:00:51 <trackbot> Date: 13 June 2016
12:01:02 <phila_> zakim, this is POE Weekly
12:01:02 <Zakim> got it, phila_
12:01:57 <phila_> zakim, this is POE Weekly https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4a8e3a5032905e8ce9ef1f4b569fcc2e Meeting ID: 648 497 127 (+1-617-324-0000)
12:01:57 <Zakim> got it, phila_
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12:02:03 <phila_> zakim, save this description
12:02:03 <Zakim> this conference description has been saved, phila_
12:02:13 <renato> Any volunteer to scribe?
12:02:14 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Scribes
12:02:17 <victor> Hi all! I have never scribed but I volunteer to.
12:02:23 <ivan> present+
12:02:27 <phila> You get the job victor!
12:02:32 <phila> I will help of courser
12:02:34 <renato> Thanks V
12:02:39 <phila> scribe: victor
12:02:40 <james> james has joined #poe
12:02:45 <victor> scribe: victor
12:02:51 <Serena> present+
12:02:53 <victor> chair: renato
12:02:55 <victor> present+
12:02:56 <phila> scribeNick: victor
12:03:01 <james> present+
12:03:08 <simonstey> present+
12:03:09 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:03:11 <victor> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160613
12:03:12 <renato> present+ renato
12:03:29 <phila> present+ phila
12:03:35 <renato> regrets: michael, caroline
12:04:10 <phila> regrets+ michael, caroline
12:04:18 <benws2> present+ benws
12:04:19 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:04:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html phila
12:04:27 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:05:02 <victor> TOPIC: Approve last meeting minutes
12:05:16 <mmcrober> mmcrober has joined #poe
12:05:17 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/06-poe-minutes
12:05:30 <Sabrina> Sabrina has joined #poe
12:05:49 <victor> (thank)
12:05:55 <phila> RESOLUTION: Last week's minutes approved
12:05:55 <Sabrina> present+ Sabrina
12:06:06 <victor> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes
12:06:21 <victor> TOPIC: Spec Name proposal
12:06:46 <victor> RESOLUTION: this topic is postposed until the next week
12:06:50 <phila> Topic: Use cases
12:06:57 <victor> TOPIC: Use Case Update
12:07:46 <victor> benws2: Should we discuss the requirements one by one?
12:07:56 <jo> present+ Jo
12:09:01 <victor> benws2: I want to discuss the requirements derived from my contribution, on Complex Constraints (constraints on constraints)
12:09:24 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements
12:09:42 <simonstey> 1.3.18
12:09:46 <simonstey> 1.3.1.8
12:09:54 <victor> benws2: I am not clear if the 1.3.8 is a new Requirement or not.
12:09:55 <simonstey> +q
12:11:11 <victor> renato: As it is formulated, this is to vague as to be a Requirement.
12:12:01 <phila> ack s
12:12:05 <mmcrober> it's not actually a prohibition, it's a constrained grant, I think
12:12:19 <victor> renato:  "Express complex constraints such as 'No use in UK after 7 days' " is the conjunction of two constraints.
12:12:59 <victor> simonstey: The boolean operators OR/AND were already described in a nonnormative section of ODRL2.1
12:13:46 <phila> q+ to talk about Booleans and rules
12:14:13 <victor> renato: They were named as "extended relations", perhaps being the same as "complex constraint".
12:14:22 <phila> ack me
12:14:22 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about Booleans and rules
12:15:01 <mmcrober> renato: "no use in the UK or after 7 days" you could actually do (geographical prohibition + temporally-limited usage grant), but something more complex could be harder
12:15:05 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/model/2.1/#section-5 -> 4.1 extended relations
12:15:05 <victor> phila: Please do note that we are not defining a rule language, as stated in the charter.
12:15:12 <ivan> q+
12:16:34 <victor> ivan: I disagree with Phil. Having a requirement based on a Use Case is perfectly useful and good to have. At the end of the discussions, we can say certain Requirements will not be satisfied. But they can be material for a later work.
12:16:58 <mmcrober> ivan: +1
12:17:02 <phila> ack i
12:17:12 <simonstey> +q
12:17:58 <phila> ack s
12:19:58 <victor> simonstey: we should keep the requirements we can all agree on, and we should discuss more on them.
12:20:59 <victor> ISSUE: Should requirements be limited to those that we plan to fulfill?
12:20:59 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-8 - Should requirements be limited to those that we plan to fulfill?.  Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/8/edit>.
12:22:17 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Temporal_Constraint
12:22:35 <victor> benws2: I would like to discuss the next requiremen t1.3.2.11, temporal constraints https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Temporal_Constraint
12:23:28 <phila> q+ to talk about time
12:23:36 <mmcrober> renato: does the ODRL interpretation of xsd:dateTime agree with XSD's?
12:23:50 <victor> renato: there is a term to talk about a recurringly occuring event
12:24:31 <phila> ack me
12:24:31 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about time
12:24:33 <victor> renato: Example: "Set a temporal constraint (ex. after some date) for the exercise of the object of the odrl:action predicate" --> the problem with the example is about "when does the embargo start?"
12:24:39 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/time/ OWL Time update (Editor's draft)
12:26:13 <victor> what about existing, older ontologies like https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/ ?
12:26:47 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Reference_to_Source_License
12:26:48 <victor> victor: I do note that other time ontologies exist
12:27:07 <phila> s/renato: does the ODRL/renato - does the ODRL/
12:27:49 <simonstey> +q
12:28:05 <victor> (thanks phila!)
12:28:12 <victor> renato: Regarding the requirement https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Reference_to_Source_License , at the moment ODRL can relate to a license but not link
12:28:38 <mmcrober> +q
12:28:40 <victor> simonstey: policy should inherit from policy
12:28:52 <phila> ack si
12:29:05 <victor> (I made an error. learning how to correct it...)
12:30:03 <victor> s/policy should inherit from policy/policy may inherit from asset
12:30:14 <victor> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:30:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html victor
12:31:29 <victor> [[[ phila, can you please help me? I see no valuable output at http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html have I done anything wrong?]]]
12:33:13 <simonstey> +q
12:33:17 <mmcrober> ack m
12:33:28 <phila> ack s
12:33:44 <victor> benws2: this might be a different problem for each of the serializations
12:34:35 <victor> simonstey: this is more of a semantic relation
12:34:44 <phila> s/[[[ phila, can you please help me? I see no valuable output at http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html have I done anything wrong?]]]//
12:35:56 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Guidance_on_Rights_Assignments_through_Aggregation_and_Derivation
12:36:06 <victor> benws2: The next requirement i want to discuss is 1.3.4.5 https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Guidance_on_Rights_Assignments_through_Aggregation_and_Derivation
12:37:07 <victor> benws2: derivations and aggregations of datasets are very common, and I would like to have automatically a compliant policy for the derivative resource
12:37:43 <simonstey> +q
12:37:53 <victor> renato: there should be a "good practices" document
12:38:32 <simonstey> -q
12:38:33 <jo> q+ to witter on about tools
12:38:37 <Sabrina> +1 for best practices guide
12:39:04 <victor> renato: the section on processing rules is actually about having best practices
12:39:24 <simonstey> +q
12:40:28 <victor> benws2: In this particular point, I would like to check with a lawyer that this is the right thing to do. If you aggregate two datasets you can automatically create a license including the previous permissions. This is obvious for me, as a computer scientist, but should be checked with a lawyer.
12:40:29 <jo> ack me
12:40:29 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to witter on about tools
12:41:56 <victor> jo: best practices are related to particular tasks
12:42:11 <phila> q+ to talk about a test suite as complement to Primer
12:42:35 <victor> benws2: actual adopters of ODRL will have specific problems they would like to have guidance in.
12:43:38 <victor> simonstey: An ODRL primer can fulfill this need for guidance.
12:43:56 <phila> ack me
12:43:56 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about a test suite as complement to Primer
12:44:07 <jo> One should have a view as to what kinds of tools could or should be developed to carry out tasks related to ODRL and this informs the nature of BEst Practice statements
12:44:59 <victor> phila: atomic elements of licenses have been mapped into digital expressions. this can be arguable, but stating the provenance, the problem vanishes: "Lawyer X says that...."
12:46:07 <mmcrober> ack s
12:46:17 <victor> phila: primer and testsuite are all the same if perceived as elements towards granting conformance
12:46:39 <victor> benws2: Next requirement to be discussed is 1.3.4.6
12:47:00 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Guidance_on_Specifying_Subsets
12:47:41 <james> q+
12:47:59 <victor> benws2: I want to express "This policy applies to all the members of this collection, or "to the results of this query"". This is the sense of the requirement (https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#Guidance_on_Specifying_Subsets)
12:48:01 <phila> q+ to talk about subsets
12:48:09 <Serena> q?
12:48:58 <phila> q-
12:49:39 <victor> james: there is another similar requirement
12:50:06 <phila> q?
12:50:17 <mmcrober> ack j
12:50:17 <james> q-
12:50:56 <victor> benws2: we have to make sure that the same requirement, if coming from different UCs, is not repeated
12:51:31 <victor> simonstey: some requirements are still pending to be processed. and yes, some are overlapping, so not many new requirements are to be expected.
12:52:14 <victor> renato: requirements should be sorted and categorized by the next call
12:52:43 <victor> renato: message to all participants: please help inasmuch as needed in this task
12:53:15 <victor> ACTION: Use Case editors to integrate the contributions
12:53:16 <trackbot> Error finding 'Use'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/users>.
12:53:49 <victor> TOPIC: WG Tracker
12:54:03 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/pendingreview
12:54:19 <phila> action-11
12:54:19 <trackbot> action-11 -- Stuart Myles to Add a template use case -- due 2016-05-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
12:54:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/11
12:54:28 <phila> close action-11
12:54:28 <trackbot> Closed action-11.
12:54:38 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/open
12:54:51 <victor> renato: there were open actions for mo, ben and phila
12:55:07 <mmcrober> close action-1
12:55:07 <trackbot> Closed action-1.
12:55:12 <phila> close action-1
12:55:12 <trackbot> Closed action-1.
12:55:37 <victor> mo: my action has been done.
12:55:59 <victor> phila: I expect to get feedback from bigdataeurope
12:56:05 <victor> phila: regrets for the next week
12:56:22 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/raised
12:56:43 <phila> q+ to raise an AOB just before we close
12:57:04 <phila> ack me
12:57:04 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to raise an AOB just before we close
12:57:11 <victor> renato: four issues had already been raised https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/raised
12:57:12 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/ SDS Voc
12:58:36 <victor> phila: I announce a Workshop in Amsterdam on 30/11/2016 https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/ , on content negotiation: we will be able to specify "I want ODRL2.1 in JSON, or in XML, or in RDF"
12:58:49 <victor> phila: I am open to receive candidates to become PC members.
12:59:26 <victor> renato: remember TPAC, where a f2f meeting will be held
12:59:55 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:59:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html phila
13:00:20 <james> thanks
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13:00:46 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:00:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/13-poe-minutes.html phila
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