14:02:43 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:02:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-irc 14:02:45 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:02:45 Zakim has joined #tt 14:02:47 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:02:47 ok, trackbot 14:02:48 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:02:48 Date: 09 June 2016 14:03:10 glenn has joined #tt 14:03:22 joining audio shortly 14:03:46 regrets from me on audio - just lurking on IRC today 14:04:50 Present: Andreas, Glenn, Nigel, Thierry 14:04:51 atai has joined #tt 14:05:01 Regrets: Frans 14:05:24 present+ 14:05:36 Present+ Mike 14:05:45 Present- Mike 14:05:52 Present+ Mike(IRC_only) 14:06:29 Topic: This meeting 14:06:34 scribe: nigel 14:07:19 nigel: It's been a couple of weeks - shall we cover mainly TTML? 14:07:29 ... In AOB I'd like to mention a BBC submission also 14:08:28 nigel: AOB? 14:08:38 group: No AOB. 14:09:09 nigel: I'm about to take a 2 week vacation. Would anyone like to chair while I'm absent? 14:09:16 glenn: I may be able to, but need to confirm. 14:09:33 nigel: Okay, thanks - let's catch up on that later. 14:10:02 Topic: Charter 14:10:11 nigel: Since we last met our new Charter has been approved! 14:10:21 nigel: https://www.w3.org/2016/05/timed-text-charter.html 14:10:52 Action: tmichel Update TTWG home page to point to new Charter 14:10:53 Created ACTION-471 - Update ttwg home page to point to new charter [on Thierry Michel - due 2016-06-16]. 14:11:43 Topic: IMSC 14:11:52 nigel: I don't think we have any specific topics to mention for IMSC today, but we did 14:12:07 ... publish the press release, which has already begun some conversations in industry. 14:12:41 Topic: TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs etc 14:13:07 nigel: First can we cover the pull request process proposal? 14:13:21 ... I think I've verified that all parties are happy with the current proposal, as described 14:13:41 ... in the agenda, to allow for early merge with labelling, and a minimum 3 business days 14:13:46 ... between opening a PR and merging it. 14:15:08 PROPOSAL: Accept the proposed process as described in the agenda for a trial period of 3 months and then review it. 14:15:41 RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed process as described in the agenda for a trial period of 3 months and then review it. 14:16:27 nigel: It's also worth noting that Glenn has described how this works for TTML2 at 14:16:28 ... https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/gh-pages/EDITING.md 14:16:56 nigel: Thanks all for helping us get to this agreement. 14:17:04 nigel: Let's move to Actions. 14:17:12 action-386? 14:17:12 action-386 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate whether region style inheritance from tt is necessary given the ability to redefine initial values -- due 2015-04-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:17:12 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/386 14:18:33 glenn: [describes comment in the action]. It is possible that the two mechanisms overlap 14:18:41 ... in some cases, but we don't have an issue to solve here. 14:19:31 ... So that's the investigation, which fulfils the action. 14:19:46 nigel: What are the cases where it is desirable to use root inheritance but not override the initial value on a inheritable style? 14:21:02 glenn: It's an authorial decision and also to do with what is efficient. 14:21:52 ... I made some notes on this and found that for translating into TTML in some cases it 14:22:04 ... is better to use initial and in others to use root inheritance. I'm not sure that we have 14:22:10 ... enough implementation experience here either. 14:22:51 ... I would like a concrete set of test sequences that verify this. I wouldn't object to 14:23:05 ... returning to this question again later as we get closer to CR, to see what the TTPE and 14:23:26 ... TTV implementation experience tells us. Originally the root inheritance was intended 14:23:49 ... to allow common inheritable styles for region elements. 14:24:05 ... Later on we realised there was also a need to override initial values when they are left 14:24:19 ... to be implementation dependent like tts:color. Both of those feature requests go back 14:24:31 ... to an earlier list of change proposals and items listed in those. So they had two 14:24:47 ... different origins. That's how we got here. The implicit proposal is to merge them 14:25:00 ... together. It makes it a little more complicated to describe in the spec that way. I have 14:25:13 ... to admit that implementing and testing both is a little more work. I'm not comfortable 14:25:29 ... merging them at this point but I'd like to see where implementation experience takes us. 14:25:39 close action-386 14:25:39 Closed action-386. 14:25:51 action-404? 14:25:51 action-404 -- Glenn Adams to Add note to issue 341 to reflect his current thinking -- due 2015-06-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:25:51 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/404 14:26:07 glenn: Issue-341 is a tracker issue, just to be clear. 14:26:18 issue-341? 14:26:18 issue-341 -- ambiguous definition for determination of descendant region identifier -- open 14:26:18 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/341 14:26:37 glenn: I need folk to look at and think about and respond to this. We need to make a 14:26:50 ... design choice. I have proposed a particular option out of 4. 14:27:28 https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/194 14:28:19 nigel: There is no equivalent TTML2 issue. 14:32:37 nigel: I think this relates also to the processing of implied anonymous inline regions, 14:32:50 ... where a proposal made was, rather then the current semantic of creating a new 14:33:05 ... anonymous region, that instead the currently selected region would be modified if a 14:33:23 ... region style attribute such as tts:origin were specified on an element, e.g. a

. 14:34:50 i'm not ready to concede this is a good or useful idea, i.e., having an anonymous region somehow override a region derived from an ancestor 14:34:56 nigel: Since I can't see an issue for this, I need to go back and look and make sure there is one so we don't lose this. 14:35:09 i think this will probably complicate processing in a big way 14:36:08 nigel: My reasoning is that I *think* when people specify origin or extent on a div or a p 14:36:32 ... this is what they expect, to modify the current region and retain all style settings. 14:37:51 ACTION: nigel make sure there is a TTML2 issue for considering adjustment of inline region semantics 14:37:51 Created ACTION-472 - Make sure there is a ttml2 issue for considering adjustment of inline region semantics [on Nigel Megitt - due 2016-06-16]. 14:38:37 glenn: We need to figure out what we think should be right and then figure out how badly that may break anything. 14:39:07 no specific bview 14:40:03 close action-404 14:40:03 Closed action-404. 14:40:32 action-458? 14:40:32 action-458 -- Glenn Adams to Create issue re: line height calculation for inline -- due 2016-04-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:40:32 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/458 14:40:56 glenn: I created https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/212 14:41:04 nigel: Thank you. Do we need an equivalent for TTML2? 14:42:02 glenn: Probably! Generally errata in TTML1 create an issue in TTML2 14:42:19 ... I'll go ahead and create an issue in TTML2 and cross reference the TTML1 issue URL 14:42:35 close action-458 14:42:35 Closed action-458. 14:43:38 nigel: I'd like to mention the submission that I made just at the start of this meeting. 14:44:05 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Jun/0003.html 14:44:30 nigel: This comes partly out of work done in another group, where we were considering 14:44:47 ... the case that TTML is used for subtitles or captions over video in one video aspect ratio 14:45:03 ... when the video is displayed on a different aspect ratio and partially cropped as a result. 14:45:15 created github issue for ttml2 https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/163 related to ttml1 issue 212; semantics of line height, inline height 14:49:00 glenn: Another issue that may be related is that there's some desire to specify positioning 14:49:11 ... of subtitles outside the root container region, or have it be larger than a video frame. 14:49:23 ... For example with letter box where you want the subtitles to appear beneath or above 14:49:31 ... content in black bars. 14:50:53 Topic: Profiles registry 14:50:58 action-470? 14:50:58 action-470 -- Nigel Megitt to Update the publications wiki page for the profile registry -- due 2016-05-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:50:58 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/470 14:51:06 nigel: I did that. 14:51:40 close action-470 14:51:40 Closed action-470. 14:52:38 nigel: We also have action-468 and action-469 on plh 14:52:43 tmichel: I have no update but will look into it. 14:53:19 nigel: There's also a useful process point to note, which is that the W3C pull request 14:53:45 ... checker (ash-nazg) now has an option for marking pull requests as non-substantive, 14:54:13 ... and this has been used on https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/20 14:54:26 ... which means that the Editor can now merge this safely without worrying about IPR. 14:57:18 Topic: TPAC 14:57:22 glenn: Registration is now open. 14:57:49 nigel: Thanks for the reminder! https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/ 14:58:00 ... Registration: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2016/?login 14:58:43 atai has left #tt 14:58:59 nigel: Okay. Thanks everyone, I'll be back here in 3 weeks! [adjourns meeting] 14:59:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:01:59 chair: Nigel 15:02:23 s/joining audio shortly// 15:03:29 s/i'm not ready to concede this/glenn: i'm not ready to concede this 15:03:46 s/i think this will probably complicate/glenn: i think this will probably complicate 15:03:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:03:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:04:03 s/bview/view 15:04:14 s/no specific/tmichel: no specific 15:05:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:05:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:06:46 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:06:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:06:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:10:19 Regrets+ Pierre 15:10:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:10:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:19:37 Zakim has left #tt