See also: IRC log
<stakagi> hello
<scribe> scribe: Nikos
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/138
AmeliaBR: There's one issue as a summary, with lots of specific issues hanging off that
<AmeliaBR> Summary: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/139
switch originally had three different attributes for controlling when you switch different features
scribe: one is
requiredExtensions, think the idea was that if somebody
somewhere in some other spec or software defined an extension,
then in svg we could define something that should only be
rendered if that was supported
... it doesn't seem to be well used
... but some things would be useful to define
... like whether this svg ua can render html
... have a non standard extension in FireFox that takes the xml
namespace
... not defined in the standard anywhere, and not supported by
other browsers
... think it would be useful to have some way of saying what
type of documents this UA supports
... or suggest what type of image file can you embed?
nikos: I think I'd like to defer
this.
... can we put this in the integration spec?
... or another spec that's just a list of supported
extensions?
... I'm supportive of capturing the extensions that are used by
user agents so we can get interop
shepazu: I thought integration spec too
AmeliaBR: SVG 2 just defines the content as a url and doesn't have requirements beyond that
RESOLUTION: SVG WG will list details of common extensions and supported values for the requiredExtensions attribute in the integration spec
nikos: Would it be better to just support the picture element rather than image formats in switch?
AmeliaBR: That's not as backwards
compatible as switch
... right now, you could get an image if you used switch so you
would get a sensible format
shepazu: Is switch supported in illustrator or Inkscape?
AmeliaBR: it's supported in rendering afaik but you can't generate it
Tav: I'm not 100% sure, I know we
parse it but not sure what we do with it
... think there are comments saying we should do something or
other with it
shepazu: When I think about SVG,
there's a number of places, I think of authoring tools and
browsers primarily
... there's other environments, but I don't expect they're
using switch at all
... so when you say it's not supported, I think it would be
trivial to do this in an svg + html context
... and since modern browsers support html5, I wonder what part
of the ecosystem wouldn't support picture?
AmeliaBR: it's not supported right now for svg
Tav: not supported by Inkscape or Illustrator
shepazu: I think if we are going to change behaviour, we should aim towards html rather than going alone
AmeliaBR: it's also relevant to foreignObject, to define what time of content should be supported
shepazu: my position is generally to not add new features or not extend less well supported features of SVG
nikos: Agree
<AmeliaBR> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/136
AmeliaBR: There's a bit of a
limitation in how systemLanguage is defined
... assumes users only have one preferred language
... or that all options are equal
... this can be problematic if users have for example preferred
languages, but will accept English if need be
... SMIL in later versions introduced an attribute that allows
the user agent to be smarter
... hasn't been adopted into svg
... is supported in FireFox
... though there's HTML parsing issues because it's a mixed
case attribute
... my pref is to spec so smart language matching is the
default
... and not worry about the attribute, because I don't see when
you'd want the other behaviour
nikos: I support this. Language
choice is one of the more useful uses of switch
... it's defined already in another spec so we can just
reference it
... are there any issues changing the default behaviour?
AmeliaBR: are people leaning towards adding the reoder attribute? or define language matching?
Tav: the latter
AmeliaBR: In FireFox you have to specifically allow reorder, the default is the old behaviour
shepazu: as long as we can get implementers, I like the second option
RESOLUTION: Language selection order for systemLanguage attribute will follow allowReorder=true by default
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu to have a go at changing systemLanguage to allowReorder by default [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3844 - Have a go at changing systemlanguage to allowreorder by default [on Doug Schepers - due 2016-06-09].
shepazu: would be best to include inline rather than reference SMIL
AmeliaBR: think this is just
editorial
... title and desc interfere with the selection of child
elements so we resolved to remove them from the content
model
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: There was a
previous resolution that switch doesn't affect script and
style
... we had an issue raised about how it interacts with audio
and video
... my suggestion was that it should be treated as if audio and
video are display:none
... which means the audio and video don't play
nikos: I agree with that
behaviour. Was trying to find where in HTML5 it says audio and
video don't play on display none
... if anyone knows where that is, drop a link in the issue
please
... There was the question of whether resources should be
loaded at all. But they probably have to, because they can be
accessed through the DOM. It's like images that are
display:none
In SVG 1.1 we had requiredFeatures that had a defined list or category of features that svg would support
scribe: that has been removed
from SVG 2
... browsers implement it in a way where they didn't behave
properly if you put in something that wasn't recognised
... I was wondering whether it might make sense to add back in
as a deprecated feature
... so UA must support all SVG 11 strings
nikos: was wondering if we should leave it in and define it as returning true
AmeliaBR: that's the same as removing because of the behaviour defined in the spec.
nikos: that's ok then, probably the reason why it was just removed. I say just leave it as is
shepazu: I agree with that
... browser vendors in the past have always pushed back on
conditional processing. Unless that has changed in the last
couple of years, I don't see us getting momentum in the
implementation so don't think we should put much effort in
AmeliaBR: CSS conditional processing seems to be doing well, I'd love to build on that but not something we can do now
shepazu: I tried to put something
like this in dom3 events but was met with strong
resistance
... they're not bad ideas, just need to focus on what we need
to do to get SVG 2 done
AmeliaBR: agree with new
features, what do we do with existing features that are poorly
implemented? How do we clean up the spec?
... I have lots of ideas how to make switch cool with MQ and
stuff
shepazu: If a feature was poorly
implemented, it could be because it was poorly specced, it
could be that it wasn't tested well, could be lack of browser
interest
... we need to work out on a case by case basis which one it
was
... for switch, it never really passed the critical mass of
implementers that it needed to succeed
... understand what you're saying about what do we do with
what's left in the spec
AmeliaBR: switch and
requiredFeatures has two implementations unless it's been torn
out in the last year
... problem is the feature strings aren't clearly defined
... testing for filter support for example didn't mean the
feature was supported without bugs
shepazu: that's why hasFeature
fell by the wayside
... the fine grainedness was missing
... browsers don't want to implement that level of grain
... I say this as a person who strongly advocated for this in
the past
AmeliaBR: it might be useful to have a note in the conditional processing overview saying the requiredFeatures attribute has been removed
<scribe> ACTION: Amelia to add a note regarding removal of requiredFeatures [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3845 - Add a note regarding removal of requiredfeatures [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-06-09].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Nikos Inferring ScribeNick: nikos Found ScribeNick: nikos Present: nikos AmeliaBR shepazu stakagi Tav Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Jun/0000.html Found Date: 02 Jun 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-svg-minutes.html People with action items: amelia shepazu[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]