16:27:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:27:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-irc
16:27:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:27:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
16:27:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
16:27:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:27:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16:27:21 <trackbot> Date: 02 June 2016
16:27:49 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0218.html
16:27:51 <MichaelC> chair: MichaelC
16:27:54 <MichaelC> regrets: Rich
16:28:11 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:29:53 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #aria
16:31:00 <MichaelC> agenda+ Decisions from last week
16:31:01 <MichaelC> agenda+ Password role
16:31:01 <MichaelC> agenda+ aria-autocomplete ACTION-2039 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0152.html
16:31:01 <MichaelC> agenda+ Treeitem, option re children presentational https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016May/thread.html#msg16
16:31:02 <MichaelC> agenda+ Keyboard shortcuts http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck-keyshortcuts/aria/aria.html
16:31:02 <MichaelC> agenda+ Action 2067: aria-owns dom/owned children sequential ordering
16:31:04 <MichaelC> agenda+ Action 2040: Modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2
16:31:07 <MichaelC> agenda+ Action 2048: Narrator team speaking password role text (Cynthia Shelly)
16:31:09 <MichaelC> agenda+ Open issues and actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17
16:31:11 <MichaelC> agenda+ Status of ARIA spec review for feature freeze Working Draft publication
16:31:15 <MichaelC> agenda+ AOB
16:31:33 <janina> present+ Janina
16:31:39 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
16:31:55 <fesch> present+ fesch
16:31:59 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC, Joanmarie_Diggs, Michiel_Bijl
16:32:14 <MichaelC> present+ Matt
16:33:21 <MichaelC> agenda?
16:33:40 <JF> JF has joined #aria
16:33:52 <MichaelC> agenda order 1, 3, 4
16:34:01 <JF> Present+ JF
16:34:05 <MichaelC> present+ Jemma
16:35:13 <jaeunjemmaku> jaeunjemmaku has joined #aria
16:35:22 <MichaelC> scribe: jaeunjemmaku
16:35:34 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:35:34 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Decisions from last week" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:36:06 <jaeunjemmaku> rrsagnet, make log world
16:36:13 <MichaelC> present+ JamesN
16:36:25 <jaeunjemmaku> present+ jemmajaeunku
16:36:30 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
16:36:46 <jamesn> agenda?
16:37:00 <JF> rrsagent, make log world
16:37:14 <MichaelC> present+ Cynthia
16:37:22 <fesch> scribe: fesch
16:37:44 <JF> Q+
16:37:48 <fesch> mc: CFC emails went out yesterday nothing to approve
16:37:50 <MichaelC> ack j
16:38:02 <clown> clown has joined #aria
16:38:18 <fesch> jf: the CFC are compound requests - can you do individual CFCs?
16:38:23 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
16:38:59 <fesch> mc: that would be formal decision change, but we can re raise this issue when Rich is back
16:39:33 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:39:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "aria-autocomplete ACTION-2039 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0152.html" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:39:44 <jaeunjemmaku> agenda+ aria-autocomplete ACTION-2039 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0152.html
16:39:53 <MichaelC> drop item 12
16:39:55 <fesch> scribe: jaeunjemmaku
16:40:10 <jaeunjemmaku> mk:most of editorial work
16:40:45 <jaeunjemmaku> mk;authoring change implied in 1.0 but not normative
16:41:16 <jaeunjemmaku> mk:fixed typo from joseph's feedback
16:41:56 <jaeunjemmaku> mk:if anyone has a question, I am happy to answer
16:42:37 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0152.html
16:43:05 <jaeunjemmaku> jemma:matt sent out a detailed email about the change
16:44:25 <clown> "If an element has aria-autocomplete set to list or both, authors MUST ensure that either the element or a containing element with role combobox has a value for aria-haspopup that matches the role of the element used to present the collection of suggested values."
16:44:32 <MichaelC> changes in this branch: https://github.com/w3c/aria/compare/action2039-autocomplete
16:45:01 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: authoring requirement that auto complete is also included to aria controls?
16:45:49 <clown> " When an element has aria-autocomplete set to list or both, authors SHOULD use the aria-expanded state to communicate whether the element that presents the suggestion collection is displayed. "
16:46:22 <jaeunjemmaku> mk: I am thinking why I didnot include it but I am happy to take action to include aria-control part
16:47:13 <jaeunjemmaku> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0152.html
16:47:38 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #aria
16:48:01 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
16:48:17 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:48:22 <jaeunjemmaku> joannie:selected status is different.I can show example
16:49:19 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria
16:49:55 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
16:50:25 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
16:50:52 <jaeunjemmaku> michael: we may need more time to look into this with Joanie's comment on state issue
16:51:32 <jaeunjemmaku> michael: any questions/suggestion on working on this issue for next week?
16:51:37 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
16:52:18 <jaeunjemmaku> michael:does somebody want to start the discussion?
16:53:16 <fesch> q+
16:54:29 <MichaelC> ack f
16:54:33 <jamesn> q+
16:55:05 <jaeunjemmaku> bg: problem is in that we deal with this treeview as composite widget or not. it is also relevant to focus management issue
16:55:47 <jaeunjemmaku> fred: james and I suggested to move this issue to aria 2.0
16:55:56 <clown> Stefan's latest: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016May/0049.html
16:56:32 <jaeunjemmaku> fred: james came up with an idea using attributes, complex, prestentationl and etc
16:56:36 <MichaelC> ack j
16:57:31 <jaeunjemmaku> jn: this is common ui pattern so we need to come up with an answer eventually although it is too late for 1.1
16:57:53 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: what is the comfortable option for this?
16:58:31 <joanie> q+ To have official response to the associated action and whether or not I proceed.
16:58:45 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: I check with Stefan. if not I will work with matt and james to summarize the issue
16:59:22 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: current proposal by stefan's is accepted by everybody?
17:00:00 <jaeunjemmaku> michael: did we record actions with this issue for 2.0?
17:00:53 <jaeunjemmaku> mk:happy to have an issue for 2.0. however we would like to work within APG group so that we can come up with actual solution
17:01:08 <joanie> q-
17:02:24 <joanie> q+
17:02:33 <MichaelC> action: mking to discuss treeitem and option re children presentational in APG group, define issues that need to be handled in ARIA 2.0
17:02:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2078 - Discuss treeitem and option re children presentational in apg group, define issues that need to be handled in aria 2.0 [on Matthew King - due 2016-06-09].
17:02:40 <MichaelC> ack j
17:03:06 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: I am going to commit changes today for approved ones
17:03:46 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: nobody objects Joanie's suggestion - commit changes
17:04:01 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:04:33 <jaeunjemmaku> michael: adding warning to pw role and more to this issue
17:04:38 <JF> Q+ to ask about application of that attribute - i.e. <fieldset>
17:04:52 <MichaelC> ack j
17:04:52 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about application of that attribute - i.e. <fieldset>
17:05:55 <MichaelC> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jun/0016.html
17:05:59 <jaeunjemmaku> michael: we can talk about fieldset as the second item
17:06:03 <MichaelC> action-2072?
17:06:03 <trackbot> action-2072 -- John Foliot to Provide draft text for password by 6/2/16 -- due 2016-06-02 -- CLOSED
17:06:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2072
17:06:12 <JF> Warning: the password role does not convey or apply any of the security or privacy considerations found in native password fields. Authors are responsible for making sure that custom password fields have robust security and privacy protection, as befits their use.
17:06:37 <fesch> +1
17:06:39 <clown> +1
17:06:42 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: I agree with this
17:06:43 <joanie> +1
17:06:51 <MichaelC> s/cyn/léonie/
17:07:04 <MichielBijl> +1
17:07:52 <jaeunjemmaku> RESOULUTION: Accept John's suggestion
17:08:04 <MichaelC> s/RESOULUTION:/RESOLUTION:/
17:08:37 <jaeunjemmaku> next item for pw is application element - fieldset
17:09:38 <LJWatson> q+
17:09:57 <MichaelC> q+
17:10:04 <MichaelC> q+ to mention HTML-AAM
17:10:07 <fesch> q+ to say you need to allow it on div and span
17:10:19 <jaeunjemmaku> jf: for now we can use input or content editable as aria role for pw but if people are using different aria role such as radio check and etc
17:10:25 <MichaelC> ack l
17:10:52 <jaeunjemmaku> lw: we need to address this issue to different places - mapping and host language sections?
17:11:21 <MichaelC> ack me
17:11:21 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention HTML-AAM
17:11:23 <LJWatson> ack me
17:11:48 <JF> Q+
17:11:58 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: for  now, we don't have section for what element role should be applied
17:12:19 <MichaelC> ack f
17:12:19 <Zakim> fesch, you wanted to say you need to allow it on div and span
17:12:35 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: we can advisory comment to host language but we can not put definite saying.
17:12:36 <MichaelC> ack j
17:13:21 <jaeunjemmaku> jf:what is error handling process?
17:13:26 <fesch> q+
17:13:44 <joanie> q+
17:13:51 <jaeunjemmaku> jf:if element is used which is not supposed to use, what happens?
17:14:19 <MichaelC> ack f
17:14:23 <jaeunjemmaku> jf: native semantics override aira
17:14:26 <cyns> q+ to say that <p contenteditable=true role=password> is a legit use case
17:14:33 <MichaelC> q+ to say SVG may define different elements password can / can´t be applied to
17:14:46 <MichaelC> q+ to say error handling not specific to password
17:15:11 <MichaelC> ack j
17:15:18 <jaeunjemmaku> fred: not many content editable is not svg
17:15:43 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: I dont see any problem with content editable with password
17:16:07 <MichaelC> ack c
17:16:07 <Zakim> cyns, you wanted to say that <p contenteditable=true role=password> is a legit use case
17:16:20 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: joanie already covered a lot
17:16:45 <MichaelC> ack me
17:16:45 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say SVG may define different elements password can / can´t be applied to and to say error handling not specific to password
17:16:59 <JF> Q+
17:17:10 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: we may need to see a way css(webkit) can provide bullet which is gone away now.
17:17:12 <MichaelC> ack j
17:17:40 <jaeunjemmaku> jf:we put dependency to screen readers, not browsers
17:18:00 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: it present rendered text
17:18:26 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: it is not checkbox, because it is password
17:18:38 <jaeunjemmaku> s/password/ password role
17:19:20 <jaeunjemmaku> joshep: js will take care of this.
17:19:34 <jaeunjemmaku> jf: what is js does not take care of it?
17:19:46 <clown> s/joshep: js will take care of this/joseph:  you are assuming the author has not written the javascript to handle this/
17:19:59 <jaeunjemmaku> lw: aria spec is not the place to talk about error handling
17:21:57 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: we can add words that host language should put restriction on this and handling by AT
17:22:42 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: we should not make assumption that we can write about handling by AT
17:23:06 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: if someone wants to do that, I hope that person need to consult with me.
17:23:35 <LJWatson> q+ to say we can handle it in the host language, but could perhaps restrict it to use within a form role container?
17:23:49 <MichaelC> ack l
17:23:49 <Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to say we can handle it in the host language, but could perhaps restrict it to use within a form role container?
17:24:29 <suman> suman has joined #aria
17:24:40 <jaeunjemmaku> lw: can we put restriction to form of container as well as host language restriction?
17:25:04 <joanie> q+
17:25:10 <LJWatson> ack me
17:25:13 <jaeunjemmaku> lw: if we restrict that it should be inside of form element, it may decrease the errros
17:25:20 <MichaelC> action: cooper to draft ¨host language should¨ language for password that they should restrict elements it can apply to, with input from minutes of 2 June 2016 meeting
17:25:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2079 - Draft ¨host language should¨ language for password that they should restrict elements it can apply to, with input from minutes of 2 june 2016 meeting [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-06-09].
17:25:28 <MichaelC> ack j
17:25:35 <fesch> q+
17:25:37 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: I don't like lw
17:25:43 <jaeunjemmaku> s suggestion
17:25:58 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: but it made me think
17:26:57 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: I will make an action to limit the text to editable stuff only.
17:27:10 <fesch> ack me
17:27:15 <LJWatson> +1 to Joannie's suggestion.
17:27:17 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: things not editable, you should not use password role
17:27:20 <fesch> +1 to editable
17:27:26 <jaeunjemmaku> +1
17:27:41 <joanie> action Joanie to draft ARIA spec text limiting the use of role password on editable objects
17:27:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2080 - Draft aria spec text limiting the use of role password on editable objects [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-06-09].
17:27:41 <jaeunjemmaku> next issue
17:28:12 <MichaelC> issue: It is not defined how AT should handle bad uses of ARIA. Need to come up with AT error handling guidance.
17:28:12 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1032 - It is not defined how at should handle bad uses of aria. need to come up with at error handling guidance..  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1032/edit>.
17:28:34 <jaeunjemmaku> jf: I am good with suggested action
17:29:09 <jaeunjemmaku> we have three actions and one issue for pw role. does this take care of most of issues?
17:29:11 <jaeunjemmaku> jf: yes
17:29:32 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: third issue for password role - security issue
17:29:39 <fesch> q+
17:29:55 <fesch> ack me
17:30:02 <JF> Q+ to ask if this means being marked as "At Risk"?
17:30:38 <MichaelC> ack j
17:30:38 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask if this means being marked as "At Risk"?
17:31:03 <MichaelC> action: cooper to draft wording for editorial note on password that it needs review and could be removed later
17:31:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2081 - Draft wording for editorial note on password that it needs review and could be removed later [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-06-09].
17:31:27 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: we would not use "at risk" but I will say it by drafting wording
17:32:10 <jaeunjemmaku> lw: I want to thanks for all your patience for this issue.
17:32:20 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:33:10 <jaeunjemmaku> matt;made a branch and sent to Rich for adjustment of language
17:33:22 <jaeunjemmaku> s/matt;/matt:
17:33:43 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/compare/master...mck-keyshortcuts Diffs in keyboard shortcuts proposal
17:34:01 <jongund> present+ jongund
17:35:57 <jaeunjemmaku> matt: Rich wanted to keep the reference
17:36:55 <MichaelC> action: cooper to investigate having regular links to APG for each ARIA feature
17:36:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2082 - Investigate having regular links to apg for each aria feature [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-06-09].
17:39:44 <jaeunjemmaku> jmatt: we use normative language for warning
17:39:54 <jaeunjemmaku> s/jmatt/matt
17:40:02 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: no objection?
17:40:28 <jaeunjemmaku> RESOLUTION: accept matt's proposal
17:40:40 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:40:59 <MichaelC> action-2067?
17:40:59 <trackbot> action-2067 -- James Nurthen to Write text to state the order of aria-owns ids wrt. the dom child order and sequential aria-owns ids -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN
17:40:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2067
17:41:46 <jaeunjemmaku> joshep: I worked on Jame's edit
17:41:52 <MichaelC> action-2067: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0159.html
17:41:52 <trackbot> Notes added to action-2067 Write text to state the order of aria-owns ids wrt. the dom child order and sequential aria-owns ids.
17:42:02 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0187.html
17:42:19 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0190.html
17:42:35 <jaeunjemmaku> michale:still waiting for Jame's follow up
17:42:48 <MichaelC> action-2067: James to follow up from Joseph´s input
17:42:48 <trackbot> Notes added to action-2067 Write text to state the order of aria-owns ids wrt. the dom child order and sequential aria-owns ids.
17:42:52 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:43:05 <MichaelC> action-2040?
17:43:05 <trackbot> action-2040 -- Michael Cooper to Modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 -- due 2016-03-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:43:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2040
17:43:22 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/272700164a3cb9f475f6d266ce4fd85edaa3090f Commit for ACTION-2040
17:44:13 <MichaelC> added ¨On elements with implicit WAI-ARIA roles, authors can also use WAI-ARIA states and properties supported by those roles <em>without</em> requiring explicit indication of the WAI-ARIA role.¨
17:45:06 <MichaelC> added ¨Elements that have implicit WAI-ARIA semantics support the full set of WAI-ARIA states and properties supported by the corresponding role. Therefore, authors MAY omit the role when setting states and properties. The role is only needed when the implicit WAI-ARIA role of the element needs to be changed.¨
17:45:41 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: say the same thing but in two different section.
17:46:53 <jaeunjemmaku> fred: if it is implicit aria, wouldn't it already have state and properties?
17:47:05 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: the case of check box
17:47:22 <joanie> s/joanie:/cynthia:/
17:50:17 <jaeunjemmaku> RESOLUTION: accept action 2040
17:50:25 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:50:31 <LJWatson> This is the HTML module with the host language requirements https://github.com/w3c/aria-in-html
17:50:41 <MichaelC> action-2048?
17:50:41 <trackbot> action-2048 -- Cynthia Shelly to Talk into narrator team about feasibility of echoing rendered text in role=password -- due 2016-04-27 -- OPEN
17:50:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2048
17:50:55 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: they will do eventually do something
17:51:12 <jaeunjemmaku> cyn: but not sure when
17:51:39 <MichaelC> action-2048: any change would be in a future version of windows, not the upcoming one
17:51:39 <trackbot> Notes added to action-2048 Talk into narrator team about feasibility of echoing rendered text in role=password.
17:52:33 <MichaelC> action-2048: password role not slated for upcoming version of windows
17:52:33 <trackbot> Notes added to action-2048 Talk into narrator team about feasibility of echoing rendered text in role=password.
17:54:03 <MichaelC> close action-2048
17:54:03 <trackbot> Closed action-2048.
17:54:12 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: it increases the risk in the future since one agent would not implement this.
17:54:16 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
17:54:51 <MichaelC> close action-2040
17:54:51 <trackbot> Closed action-2040.
17:55:47 <MichaelC> reopen action-2040
17:55:47 <trackbot> Re-opened action-2040.
17:56:00 <jaeunjemmaku> joanie: if action is closed, there is no way I can go back.
17:56:15 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: I will leave it open for now.
17:56:45 <MichaelC> action-2068?
17:56:45 <trackbot> action-2068 -- Bryan Garaventa to Address issue 1006 -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN
17:56:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2068
17:58:42 <MichaelC> action-1744?
17:58:42 <trackbot> action-1744 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out -- due 2016-03-17 -- OPEN
17:58:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1744
17:59:58 <MichaelC> agenda for next week
18:00:06 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: we will put this to next agenda then to get group's consensus
18:00:33 <jaeunjemmaku> next item
18:00:57 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: aim to record consensus at next week meeting
18:01:21 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: please look into spec from top to botton
18:01:39 <jaeunjemmaku> michale:let's get ready for formal review
18:01:55 <jaeunjemmaku> michale: I will chair the next meeting agian
18:02:08 <jaeunjemmaku> rrsagent, generate minutes
18:02:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-minutes.html jaeunjemmaku
18:23:09 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #aria
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20:46:31 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
20:46:31 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-actions.rdf :
20:46:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mking to discuss treeitem and option re children presentational in APG group, define issues that need to be handled in ARIA 2.0 [1]
20:46:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-irc#T17-02-33
20:46:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cooper to draft ¨host language should¨ language for password that they should restrict elements it can apply to, with input from minutes of 2 June 2016 meeting [2]
20:46:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-irc#T17-25-20
20:46:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cooper to draft wording for editorial note on password that it needs review and could be removed later [3]
20:46:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-irc#T17-31-03
20:46:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cooper to investigate having regular links to APG for each ARIA feature [4]
20:46:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-aria-irc#T17-36-55
20:46:33 <MichaelC> zakim, bye
20:46:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Janina, fesch, MichaelC, Michiel_Bijl, Matt, JF, Jemma, JamesN, jemmajaeunku, Cynthia, LJWatson,
20:46:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
20:46:36 <Zakim> ... Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, jongund