15:05:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #alreq
15:05:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/31-alreq-irc
15:05:37 <Shervin> present+
15:05:42 <Shervin> zakim, who is here?
15:05:42 <Zakim> Present: mostafa, Shervin
15:05:42 <mostafa> ScribeNick: mostafa
15:05:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Shervin, r12a, mostafa, najib, trackbot
15:06:03 <Shervin> present+ najib
15:06:05 <Shervin> zakim, who is here?
15:06:05 <Zakim> Present: mostafa, Shervin, najib
15:06:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Shervin, r12a, mostafa, najib, trackbot
15:06:20 <Shervin> present+ r12a
15:06:23 <Shervin> zakim, who is here?
15:06:23 <Zakim> Present: mostafa, Shervin, najib, r12a
15:06:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Shervin, r12a, mostafa, najib, trackbot
15:07:08 <mostafa> Shervin: Before we start, there was an interesting discussion on punctuation marks on GitHub and I want to start with that.
15:07:48 <mostafa> … What Khaled is mentioning is partly correct.
15:08:25 <mostafa> … The thing is that the Arabic percent sign is used with Arabic numerals, but recently more and more projects are using European numerals.
15:09:07 <mostafa> … But I like that we are receiving feedback from people not attending the meetings.
15:09:09 <mostafa> +1
15:09:23 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49
15:09:24 <Shervin> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49
15:09:28 <mostafa> Richard: Yes. That’s interesting and is because we have content.
15:09:35 <mostafa> q+
15:09:47 <Shervin> ack mostafa
15:10:16 <r12a> q+
15:10:37 <Shervin> q+
15:11:21 <Shervin> axk r12a
15:11:25 <Shervin> ack r12a
15:12:10 <Shervin> ack Shervin
15:12:27 <mostafa> Mostafa: You might remember that we had a similar issue with Persian. I had finished the tables with ICU4J and CLDR, but there were Persian characters missing. So we added characters from a national standard.
15:12:55 <mostafa> Richard: I was also surprised that we did not cover the Arabic character set correctly.
15:13:55 <mostafa> Shervin: Using these libraries has its issues.
15:14:18 <r12a> q+
15:14:23 <mostafa> … It’s not easy to update them with feedback.
15:14:38 <mostafa> … Yes, we need to review these characters.
15:15:47 <mostafa> … Also, Richard, I saw your comment on the issue about those quotation marks.
15:16:20 <mostafa> … I’ve trying to advocate their usage in Arabic like in Persian, but they are not very commonly in use.
15:17:10 <Shervin> q+
15:17:25 <Shervin> ack r12a
15:17:48 <mostafa> Richard: I also want to say Arabic numerals are more widely used in some regions.
15:18:50 <Shervin> ack Shervin
15:18:59 <mostafa> Najib: About chevron (« »), there differences between official documents, newspapers, and other use cases.
15:21:21 <mostafa> Richard: We might do a disservice to ourselves by tying ourselves too firmly to official sources, which you mentioned might not always be right or up-to-date, or by tying ourselves to what happens on the web and not consider the print.
15:21:25 <Shervin> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pebcAbf9UOL_jRL4zCUQidE7BBj-6S_mA4yLXMf-7yw/edit?usp=drive_web
15:21:45 <mostafa> Shervin: You’re right. For Persian we have a source and could use that. For Arabic this is more complicated.
15:22:21 <mostafa> … For numbers, specifically, Roozbeh and I made a research about how these numbers are used in different regions.
15:22:30 <mostafa> … You can see it in this link.
15:25:04 <mostafa> q+
15:26:34 <Shervin> ack mostafa
15:28:49 <mostafa> Mostafa: It’s very interesting that there is this much discussion about characters used in Arabic and Persian, and just these challenges makes it clear that such a table would be very useful.
15:29:11 <mostafa> … But I also want to bring up the question of what is the purpose of our tables here?
15:29:54 <mostafa> … Do we want to put the time in solving this issue with our tables? Or just accept that this issue as it is and make it clear in the goals of our tables?
15:30:51 <mostafa> Richard: We can choose a middle way.
15:31:29 <najib> q+
15:31:30 <mostafa> Shervin: We can gey busy with these tables forever.
15:31:45 <mostafa> … We can try to find what is common and just say that.
15:32:17 <mostafa> … We can have notes about some of those characters.
15:32:47 <mostafa> Richard: We can say these are characters “commonly” used.
15:33:07 <mostafa> … That alone can loosen their situation a little.
15:33:10 <Shervin> ack najib
15:33:42 <mostafa> Shervin: We can mark only the ones that need, and not affect all the tables with that.
15:34:07 <mostafa> Najib: The question is what is the use of these tables?
15:36:03 <mostafa> Shervin: Yes, we can follow CLDR and whenver there is a controversy about a character add a note for that one.
15:36:09 <mostafa> q+
15:36:25 <mostafa> … Mostafa, do you agree with that?
15:36:27 <mostafa> Mostafa: +1
15:36:38 <mostafa> q-
15:37:11 <mostafa> Richard: So, the next step is to wait for Khaled?
15:37:19 <mostafa> Shervin: +1
15:40:18 <mostafa> … We can also keep the issue open to deal with the missing characters, even though this is not a priority now.
15:41:50 <mostafa> Richard: We can have separate characters for CLDR, and other standards and mark under those columns.
15:43:06 <Shervin> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open
15:44:00 <mostafa> Shervin: Action-7 is for Najib, and I saw a PR. Is that PR (#48) about this action item?
15:44:03 <mostafa> Najib: Yes.
15:45:13 <mostafa> q+
15:45:46 <mostafa> q-
15:45:59 <mostafa> … You can reject this PR.
15:48:14 <mostafa> Shervin: One question for you, Najib: can we use these images, copyright-wise?
15:48:23 <mostafa> … Are their sources clear?
15:48:38 <mostafa> Najib: I’ve used my sources, like scans from books.
15:49:20 <mostafa> Shervin: It would great if you could add a note about which book(s) these are from.
15:50:05 <mostafa> … I add an action item for myself to review these changes.
15:50:51 <Shervin> ACTION Shervin Check to see if PR#48 from Najib is mergable as is
15:50:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Check to see if pr#48 from najib is mergable as is [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-06-07].
15:51:25 <Shervin> ACTION Najib to provide the sources for images of PR#48
15:51:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Provide the sources for images of pr#48 [on Najib Tounsi - due 2016-06-07].
15:53:43 <mostafa> Najib: No, I’m focusing on action-37.
15:53:56 <mostafa> … If somebody wants to help, they’re welcome.
15:54:49 <mostafa> Shervin: Still working on action-46.
15:55:32 <mostafa> Richard: Re action-52, I got some comments about various people from W3C. The advice is what you might expect:
15:56:49 <mostafa> … Pay attention to the license of the images, ask for permission from license holders, don’t use too many images from a single source, and other common sense advices.
15:57:22 <najib> q+
15:58:10 <Shervin> ack najib
15:58:53 <mostafa> Shervin: There is also a “fair use” way of using small content from sources.
15:59:03 <mostafa> Najib: We can use images from Wikipedia.
15:59:26 <mostafa> Richard: Not always. We should pay attention to the license holder of those images.
15:59:45 <mostafa> s/licese holder/licenses/
16:02:34 <mostafa> https://imageoptim.com/mac
16:03:00 <mostafa> Richard: We also need to optimize our images for better sizes.
16:04:23 <mostafa> Shervin: So, we can close this action after Richard’s comments.
16:04:38 <mostafa> Mostafa: No update on action-55.
16:05:18 <mostafa> Shervin: Small update for action-56: I’m working on line break and am will have first draft very soon.
16:05:35 <Shervin> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues
16:07:55 <mostafa> Najib: The document does not check with the HTML validator.
16:08:07 <mostafa> Richard: It should.
16:08:13 <Shervin> ACTION Shervin Check the HTML validation of the current draft
16:08:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Check the html validation of the current draft [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-06-07].
16:08:17 <mostafa> Shervin: Will look into it.
16:09:44 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html
16:10:19 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/24-alreq-minutes.html
16:11:18 <Shervin> rrsagent, please create the minutes
16:11:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/31-alreq-minutes.html Shervin
16:11:55 <r12a> rrsagent, make log public
16:12:34 <Shervin> rrsagent, please set logs public
16:12:56 <Shervin> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/31`-alreq-minutes.html
16:12:58 <Shervin> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/31-alreq-minutes.html
16:13:23 <Shervin> zakim, please leave
16:13:23 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been mostafa, Shervin, najib, r12a
16:13:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #alreq
16:14:02 <najib> najib has left #alreq