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18:40:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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18:40:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:40:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:40:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
18:40:41 <trackbot> Date: 31 May 2016
18:40:57 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:42:02 <clown> agenda: this
18:42:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group position interface to ATK/AT-SPI.
18:42:23 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Investigate/create minimal javascript at-spi2 listener for automating 1.1 tests.
18:42:33 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1695 (Joseph/Cynthia) UIA mapping of aria-keyshortcuts (pending review).
18:42:43 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1696/ACTION-1697 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of aria-keyshortcuts
18:42:52 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1698 (James) AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- reassign to Joanie?
18:43:02 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1706 (Cynthia) Statement regarding deprecation of UIA Express.
18:43:13 <clown> agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1707)
18:43:27 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:43:36 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:43:53 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
18:43:59 <clown> agenda+ be done.
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19:08:23 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:08:47 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:08:56 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:09:05 <cyns> present+ cyns
19:09:17 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:09:17 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group position interface to ATK/AT-SPI." taken up [from clown]
19:09:28 <joanie> JD: Thanks for the reminder. Haven't gotten to it.
19:09:52 <joanie> JS: Joanie wants me to keep bringing this up.
19:09:57 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:09:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, joanie
19:10:04 <joanie> Zakim, close this item
19:10:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
19:10:05 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:10:05 <Zakim> 2. ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Investigate/create minimal javascript at-spi2 listener for automating 1.1 tests. [from clown]
19:10:08 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:10:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Investigate/create minimal javascript at-spi2 listener for automating 1.1 tests." taken up [from clown]
19:10:17 <joanie> JS: This is another such action item.
19:10:26 <joanie> JD: Same situation. But it's getting there.
19:10:40 <clown> action-1533
19:10:40 <trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2016-05-24 -- OPEN
19:10:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
19:10:46 <joanie> CS: Is this different from the Web Driver stuff?
19:11:14 <cyns> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2016/05/25/accessibility-test-automation/
19:11:26 <joanie> JD: It didn't start out the same, but it now is the same.
19:12:13 <joanie> CS + JS: Is this action defunct?
19:12:40 <joanie> CS: It sounds like it needs a new name then.
19:12:43 <joanie> JD: Agreed.
19:12:48 <joanie> JS: Suggestions?
19:12:58 <joanie> JD: Whatever you want is fine. I'll catch up on scribing. :)
19:13:38 <joanie> JS + CS: (Discuss new names/summary for Joanie's action item.)
19:13:47 <clown> Proposed new name:  Use Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA
19:14:36 <clown> Implement Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI
19:14:42 <joanie> JD: Perfect!
19:14:47 <joanie> JD: Thank you.
19:14:56 <joanie> CS: I think we need other actions similar to IA2 and Mac.
19:15:03 <joanie> CS: Which may or may not be assigned to Joanie.
19:15:08 <joanie> CS: They're not assigned to me.
19:15:20 <joanie> CS: I remember Joanie volunteering for that, but she sounds busy.
19:15:30 <joanie> JS: I can see her doing WebKit stuff.
19:17:22 <joanie> JD: I'm feeling busy, yes.
19:17:41 <joanie> JD: If I had more time, then I'd be happy to tackle IA2 and AXAPI.
19:17:47 <joanie> CS: Candidates?
19:18:41 <joanie> JD: Maybe James Teh. Though he might be busy. I dunno.
19:20:41 <joanie> CS: Would this be something an intern could do after you (joanie) do the implementation on your platform?
19:20:48 <joanie> JD: Maybe....
19:20:57 <joanie> CS: Perhaps one of Jon's stufents?
19:21:34 <joanie> JD: I like the idea. But if Jon's students lack CS skills.... Perhaps Jon could collaborate with his University's CS department.
19:22:07 <joanie> CS: Maybe someone at UW could do it. I know someone.
19:22:16 <joanie> CS: You could assign me a recruiting action.
19:24:34 <joanie> JS: I've created that action for you Cynthia.
19:25:14 <joanie> JS: I saw some emails somewhere about Rich giving Jon access to AccProbe source.
19:25:56 <joanie> JD: I think that was on the public-aria list.
19:26:08 <joanie> JS: I use AccProbe for manual testing.
19:26:25 <joanie> JS: I ran into a weird thing... AccProbe requires Java.
19:26:40 <joanie> CS: I ran into that too, but couldn't get it working.
19:26:48 <joanie> JS: I finally get it worked out.
19:26:52 <joanie> CS: I haven't.
19:27:04 <joanie> JS: AccProbe is actually a plugin for Eclipse.
19:27:37 <joanie> JD: This sounds familiar. I think I ran into this and got it running.
19:27:46 <joanie> CS: Is it still in active development?
19:27:50 <joanie> JS: No.
19:28:02 <joanie> JS: The last time I got it, the date was really old.
19:28:13 <joanie> JS: Like 2001. And the date hasn't changed as far as I know.
19:29:03 <joanie> CS: There's also aViewer from Paciello Group.
19:29:03 <clown> https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2013/03/aviewer-2013/
19:29:23 <clown> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yweb/util/accprobe/
19:29:32 <joanie> CS: Maybe we could get someone from Paciello Group to work on this.
19:29:51 <joanie> s/2001/2011/
19:30:08 <joanie> +1 to that idea
19:30:59 <joanie> CS: Steve does a lot of manual testing too, and would probably appreciate automated tools.
19:31:31 <joanie> JS: I would appreciate an automated tool for ATK/AT-SPI2.
19:32:50 <joanie> JS: I'll start with the blog post.
19:33:02 <joanie> CS: It's written in C#.
19:33:19 <joanie> CS: But you could use whatever language though.
19:33:23 <joanie> JD: Python!
19:33:49 <joanie> JD: Anyway, I'll force some time into my schedule to look at this during this week.
19:35:38 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:35:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1695 (Joseph/Cynthia) UIA mapping of aria-keyshortcuts (pending review)." taken up [from clown]
19:35:54 <clown> action-1695?
19:35:54 <trackbot> action-1695 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose UIA mapping for aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-03-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:35:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1695
19:36:21 <joanie> JS: Last week, you (Cynthia) had a proposal for mapping aria-keyshortcuts.
19:36:25 <joanie> JS: I've done the edits.
19:36:30 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts
19:36:34 <joanie> JS: I marked it PENDINGREVIEW.
19:36:40 <joanie> JS: The link is above.
19:36:44 <joanie> CS: Looks good to me.
19:36:52 <joanie> JS: I'll close the action item then.
19:37:22 <joanie> CS: Minor editorial nit: It doesn't have periods normally.
19:37:35 <joanie> JS: Next time I'm in there, I'll change that.
19:37:44 <joanie> JS: For the other platforms, I put in TBD.
19:38:32 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:38:32 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1696/ACTION-1697 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of aria-keyshortcuts" taken up [from clown]
19:38:41 <clown> action-1696
19:38:41 <trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:38:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
19:38:46 <clown> action-1697
19:38:46 <trackbot> action-1697 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:38:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697
19:39:02 <joanie> JD: The IA2 one was provided by James Teh on one of the mailing lists.
19:39:49 <joanie> JD: I had emailed the IA2 list to see if we could agree on a mapping.
19:40:13 <joanie> JD: And James responded that he already had a property that ATK and AT-SPI2 lacked.
19:41:23 <clown> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-February/002008.html
19:41:50 <joanie> JS: Reads from James' reply (at the above link)
19:41:53 <clown> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396
19:42:13 <joanie> JS: James suggested the MSAA accKeyboardShortcut property.
19:42:28 <joanie> CS: I think that's the equivalent of what we're doing in UIA.
19:43:30 <joanie> CS: I'm 80% sure this is the same thing as what I suggested.
19:43:34 <joanie> CS: It seems right, though.
19:43:44 <joanie> JS: I'm putting a note in the IA2 action.
19:43:53 <clown> "accKeyboardShortcut"
19:44:13 <joanie> CS: Instead of using the methods, you would support the property.
19:44:26 <joanie> JS: I'll look in the Core AAM to see if there's precedent.
19:44:40 <joanie> CS: I think we use the shorter form (KeyboardShortcut).
19:44:43 <cyns> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318540(v=vs.85).aspx
19:45:00 <joanie> JS: I will assign this action to me as I can actually make the edit now.
19:45:21 <joanie> JD: This is still on my to-do list. I should probably talk to Surkov.
19:45:41 <joanie> JD: The problem is that keyboard shortcuts, mnemonics, etc. are exposed via the Action interface.
19:46:02 <joanie> JD: But the Action interface actions are activatable, have names, etc.
19:46:08 <joanie> JS: Do you want a new due date?
19:46:13 <joanie> JD: One week please.
19:48:37 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:48:37 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1698 (James) AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- reassign to Joanie?" taken up [from clown]
19:48:49 <clown> action-1698?
19:48:49 <trackbot> action-1698 -- James Craig to Propose AXAPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:48:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698
19:49:13 <joanie> JS: Last week I created a bunch of actions for keyshortcuts.
19:49:26 <joanie> JS: And Rich says to me, maybe Joanie could do that one.
19:49:41 <joanie> JS: Because she's already working on WebKit including Safari.
19:49:55 <joanie> JD: Sure.
19:53:03 <joanie> JD: Give me a week. I will email Surkov today.
19:53:06 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:53:06 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1706 (Cynthia) Statement regarding deprecation of UIA Express." taken up [from clown]
19:53:16 <clown> action-1706?
19:53:16 <trackbot> action-1706 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due 2016-03-01 -- OPEN
19:53:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706
19:53:24 <joanie> JS: I wanted to touch base and ask Cynthia what the status is.
19:53:33 <joanie> JS: We removed the UIA Express column from the Core AAM.
19:53:41 <joanie> JS: And you were going to write a statement.
19:53:53 <joanie> JS: And then Alex Surkov wanted it added back.
19:54:04 <joanie> CS: I emailed Alex and have not heard back.
19:54:17 <joanie> CS: So for now, I don't think we should put it back.
19:54:27 <joanie> JS: Then I would like a statement from you.
19:54:33 <joanie> CS: When is it needed?
19:54:50 <joanie> JS: It's not critical, but it needs to be in there before we go to CR.
19:54:57 <joanie> CS: When is our CR date?
19:55:09 <joanie> JS: I don't know. But it coincides with ARIA's CR date.
19:55:23 <joanie> JS: First we have pseudo last call for ARIA followed by testing.
19:55:33 <joanie> CS: I set the due date to next week.
19:55:41 <joanie> JS: It is not critical, but will be nice to have.
19:55:54 <joanie> JS: It shouldn't be too much to write.
19:56:23 <joanie> CS: Agreed. It might just be a sentence or two.
19:56:31 <joanie> Zakim, next item.
19:56:31 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1707)" taken up [from clown]
19:56:49 <joanie> JS: I saw one in there, which I was trying to figure out what it meant.
19:57:04 <joanie> action-1707
19:57:04 <trackbot> action-1707 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the AXAPI mapping table for roles presentation and none to specify that when applied to tables and lists, the children are exposed as AXStaticText accessibles. -- due 2015-09-01 -- OPEN
19:57:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707
19:58:13 <joanie> JD: This looks like the same thing we did on my platform.
19:58:21 <joanie> JD: The treat-it-like-a-div stuff.
19:58:32 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
19:58:37 <joanie> JD: But in AXAPI, it's StaticTextRole.
19:58:51 <joanie> JS: (Reads ATK text from above URL)
19:59:11 <joanie> JS: (Reads UIA and IA2 text from above URL)
20:00:42 <joanie> JS: (Reads his notes from the action)
20:00:48 <joanie> JD: Aha, this sounds familiar now.
20:01:05 <joanie> JD: I remember having this conversation with Chris when I made the changes for my platform.
20:01:15 <joanie> JD: Because I think I did them for the Mac too.
20:02:02 <joanie> JD: And I remember having this conversation about list items and table cells being different.
20:06:00 <joanie> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133133
20:06:20 <joanie> JD: So I didn't implement the change on the Mac; I tested and questioned what I found.
20:07:06 <joanie> JD: And in comment 5 of the bug, there's my findings quoted and Chris indicating there are not GroupRole children for the list items.
20:38:10 <joanie> regrets+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:38:19 <joanie> regrets+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:38:27 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:38:27 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, cyns
20:38:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:38:51 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop
20:40:03 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:40:07 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop