IRC log of forms on 2016-05-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:44:59 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
12:45:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:45:01 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be
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I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:45:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:45:05 [trackbot]
Date: 25 May 2016
12:45:18 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
12:45:22 [Steven]
12:45:31 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda:
12:57:46 [alain]
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13:04:23 [Steven]
Topic: transform(): in particular the parameter passing
13:04:23 [Steven]
13:05:38 [Steven]
Steven: [summarised last week for Philip]
13:05:45 [Steven]
Erik: I don't have a solution yet.
13:06:19 [Steven]
Erik: There are parameters to pass to the XSLT processor, and as inputs to the transformation
13:06:47 [Steven]
... in XPath3 you have more tools to do it (hashmaps)
13:06:58 [Steven]
s/)/ in particular)
13:07:49 [Steven]
... in XPath2 we don't have maps (though you could implement them as an extension)
13:07:58 [Steven]
... so the options are limited
13:10:14 [Steven]
... we could use sequences, which give limitations
13:10:24 [Steven]
... another is to use XML documents (instances)
13:11:24 [Steven]
... which would make the transformation rather heavy
13:11:51 [Steven]
... building the instance would be heavy
13:14:39 [Steven]
Steven: But I see transformation as an alternative to submission, we send off a bit of XML, and we get a bit of XML back
13:14:58 [Steven]
... why can't we use the submission mechanism to support transformations?
13:15:11 [Steven]
Erik: Transformations do more than that.
13:15:56 [Steven]
... if we limit to sending on XML document and getting one back, it would be a subset of what you can do
13:16:18 [Steven]
... it wouldn't be compatible with XPath3
13:16:35 [Steven]
Steven: Well if it is a subset it would be compatible, but wouldn;t cover XPath3
13:16:42 [Steven]
13:17:19 [Steven]
Erik: The attributes we have on submission are not relevant to XSLT
13:18:21 [Steven]
... instead of sending it to a resource we would send it to a transformation
13:18:23 [Steven]
\Steven: Yes
13:18:57 [Steven]
Alain: I am concerned about customers generating XForms. An XML syntax might actually be interesting
13:19:20 [Steven]
... XSLTForms is now implementing XPath3
13:19:29 [Steven]
.... not a big problem
13:20:30 [Steven]
Steven: THis is actually a bigger issue than I had expected.
13:20:52 [Steven]
Philip: Last time we discussed this, this is where we stalled too
13:20:56 [Steven]
13:21:18 [Steven]
Philip: How do you identify the transform, if you sdo it with a pseudo-submission.
13:21:23 [Steven]
13:21:49 [Steven]
Philip: XProc is considering similar problems with passing parameters too.
13:22:24 [Steven]
... My personal preference is an instruction rather than a function, and it being like submission, but I understand the point of dealing with documents and parameters.
13:23:19 [Steven]
... we would have more options and flexibility if we use an XML format.
13:24:37 [Steven]
Steven: There will be an XProc conference here in the Autumn, and I don't follow them closely, but I gather they are considering big changes.
13:25:51 [Steven]
Erik: XQuery is more flexible and expressive for dynamically creating documents. In XForms you need actions.
13:26:44 [Steven]
... maybe we could mandate the XPath3 transform.
13:26:58 [ebruchez]
13:27:00 [Steven]
... One aspect is the literal syntax to specify a map
13:27:22 [ebruchez]
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13:28:25 [Steven]
13:28:25 [Steven]
13:28:25 [Steven]
13:28:25 [Steven]
13:28:25 [Steven]
13:29:13 [ebruchez]
transform(map:put(map:put(map.empty(), 'p1', 'v1'), 'p2', 'v2')
13:30:47 [Steven]
Steven: What I am missing is some use-cases
13:30:52 [Steven]
... to measure solutions by
13:33:17 [Steven]
Philip: My benchmark is being able to create a schematron schema in XForms and compile and run that against another instance in the form.
13:34:25 [Steven]
... with a transform function, everything could run in the form.
13:35:14 [Steven]
Erik: Another usecase is the ability during a submission to transform the data.
13:36:16 [Steven]
Alain: I use this a lot, for adding nodes that later get removed.
13:36:27 [Steven]
... I use my own transform function.
13:37:02 [Steven]
Steven: Do we have a description of your transform Alain?
13:37:11 [Steven]
Alain: Not a formal one, it is quite simple.
13:37:41 [Steven]
Steven: I'd like to know how your parameter passing works and so on.
13:38:03 [Steven]
Alain: I'll have a look for an example.
13:38:19 [alain]
13:38:38 [Steven]
Steven: Thanks!
13:40:01 [Steven]
Philip: I made some examples to do transforms, I could try and locate that.
13:40:33 [Steven]
... I'm on holiady from Firday (regrets for next week); I'll try and send today.
13:40:44 [Steven]
13:40:51 [Steven]
13:41:30 [Steven]
Steven: let's look at some examples this week, and discuss firther next week.
13:41:46 [Steven]
Topic: 7 The XForms Submission Module
13:41:46 [Steven]
13:41:46 [Steven]
Topic: Section 8 (Controls)
13:41:46 [Steven]
13:42:34 [Steven]
Steven: I'd like to wrap Sections 7 & 8, and move on.
13:42:48 [Steven]
... DO you need more time, or can we move on?
13:42:53 [Steven]
13:43:37 [Steven]
Erik: I will take a quick look
13:43:52 [Steven]
Philip: I'm up to 7.7, with no comments.
13:44:04 [Steven]
... but I'm away next week
13:44:12 [Steven]
Steven: OK, I'll give two weeks.
13:44:20 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
13:44:44 [Steven]
Philip: I've found the code for transform, so I'll send thm
13:45:09 [Steven]
13:45:13 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:45:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
13:45:46 [Steven]
Present: Steven, Alain, Philip, Erik
13:45:47 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:45:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven