14:02:34 RRSAgent has joined #exi 14:02:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/19-exi-irc 14:02:36 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:02:36 Zakim has joined #exi 14:02:38 Zakim, this will be EXIWG 14:02:38 ok, trackbot 14:02:39 Meeting: Efficient XML Interchange Working Group Teleconference 14:02:39 Date: 19 May 2016 14:03:46 dape has joined #exi 14:08:51 scribe: TK 14:08:57 scribeNick: taki 14:09:15 TOPIC: TPAC 2016 Registration Now Open 14:09:52 TOPIC: EXI4JSON 14:10:12 TOPIC: EXI for JSON structure 14:11:47 DP: V1 and V2 are quite comparable. 14:12:13 DP: For small documents, static grammar helps. 14:12:35 brutzman has joined #EXI 14:12:35 DP: For larger ones, built-in grammar works better. 14:12:57 DP: General structure is the same between V2 and V2-EFG. 14:13:11 sorry for lateness but am having trouble connecting to webex, will keep trying 14:14:01 DP: How can we enable the use of Element Fragment Grammar? 14:17:58 DP: Can we start second version editor's draft? 14:20:21 CB: We already used preview version before we published EXI 1.0 REC. 14:23:40 CB: I suggest we work using preview number in EXI2 editor's draft. 14:25:34 CB: We need to check what is the next preview version that we should use for EXI2. 14:27:34 DP: The static grammar is available only when schema-informed case. 14:29:14 TK: I remember that EXI Profile only covered schema-informed scenarios. 14:29:43 DP: Correct. Because we needed to keep the format. 14:31:06 TK: How should we start? 14:31:27 note the styling change in 2016 for TRs 14:32:21 DP: Can you provide a link to the stylesheet, Carine? 14:33:22 CB: We need to update Canonical EXI's stylesheet as well. 14:34:23 CB: I will send information after the call. 14:34:35 DP: We use public space, right? 14:34:41 DB: Right. 14:38:25 DP: I noticed the current XML schema has two issues. 14:38:35 DP: I changed the way array was defined. 14:38:55 DP: Old way allowed array can contain everything. 14:40:21 DP: The other issue is, if the key is "number", you will encounter a problem. 14:40:50 DP: I also changed the namespace in order to avoid the conflict. 14:43:29 DP: I can try to integrate the new structure to editor's draft. 14:44:34 TK: We can consider publication after DP integrates the change. 14:46:02 DP: Don suggested it is important for user to identify structural change by URL or namespace. 14:46:13 DB: Is it about schemaId? 14:47:47 DP: We will get to one final version. 14:48:16 CB: If we are correcting a mistake, then we can use the same. 14:48:42 CB: I don't have a strong opinion, though. 14:51:59 right before Section 3, in https://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/docs/json/exi-for-json.html we say "If future versions of EXI for JSON are specified, version identification is reflected in the schemaId value." 14:53:55 brutzman has joined #exi 14:54:27 testing 1 2 3, reconnected now 14:56:18 DP: We expect to produce multiple new note publications. 14:56:49 TK: We should give a big warning sign up front in the document stating we changed the schema without changing the schemaId. 15:01:45 i'm OK with an Editor's Note but this does point out a lesson learned... call draft versions of everything draft, to avoid future collisions. 15:03:03 TOPIC: Canonical EXI 15:06:40 recent email has _two_ responses aout schemaID and canonical time. https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-exi/2016May/0012.html 15:06:56 s/aout/about/ 15:09:24 DB: We should have something. If EXI is used for storing, critical aspect is if you don't have schemaId, you cannot decode the document. 15:09:59 CB: SchemaId may not be enough, either. 15:10:21 critical point: whether a document with schema-informed grammar can be decoded without the schema. discussion confirmed this. 15:10:25 CB: I think we should align with EXI 1.0 spec says. 15:11:06 CB: I also agreee Don't point that users need to be aware of those issues. 15:11:26 CB: EXI 1.0 says schemaId is optional. 15:11:38 DP: It is nothing more than a hint. 15:12:24 DP: It would be very good if we can come up with a way how one could find a right schema. 15:13:02 DP: SchemaId, for example, can be a hash of XML schema. 15:13:31 curiously, if we are silent and this flaw occurs, a user might be able to authoritatively authenticate that an unencrypted EXI document is correct, but still unable to decode it due to lack of schema. 15:13:37 CB: But that task may be the work of application. 15:13:51 CB: Some application do not need to use schemaId. 15:14:06 CB: schemaId can also be URI. 15:14:22 CB: The intent was to accomodate various use cases. 15:14:38 CB: I do not see any reason from EXI 1.0 intention. 15:15:41 DP: One issue is you can't be sure you are using the right schema, based on schemaId. 15:16:59 Aside from MUST or SHOULD or , we might focus on providing recommended options/practices for archival use, and recommended options/practices for transient data-transfer use. 15:17:03 CB: You "may" use schemaId. You are not required to use. 15:19:42 DP: You want to describe best practice for standalone case, Don? 15:19:51 We might also facilitate EXI compression and embedding of a schema itself, within an EXI document, to enable standalone stability. 15:19:52 DP: The only option is use schema-less. 15:20:59 Another possibility for ensuring stability is that the document uses a stable URI for a well-defined schema (SVG or EXI4JSON or somesuch). 15:21:29 ... by stable URI, I mean one that corresponds to a specification/recommendation. 15:31:46 brutzman_ has joined #exi 15:31:54 we could begin to collect best practices for archival use. we SHOULD identify this potential pitfall with a warning, since it does not block the efficient data transfer John describes yet flags a potentially important issue for others. 15:33:38 regarding time canonicalization, adoption of XML Schema time canonicalization avoids creation of any new EXI semantics that can only lead to differences and difficulties in practice. 15:34:23 brutzman has joined #exi 15:34:28 regarding time canonicalization, adoption of XML Schema time canonicalization avoids creation of any new EXI semantics that can only lead to differences and difficulties in practice. 15:37:03 rrsagent, create minutes 15:37:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/19-exi-minutes.html taki 15:53:15 taki has left #exi 16:23:58 Zakim has left #exi