11:55:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
11:55:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-irc
11:55:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:55:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #poe
11:55:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
11:55:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
11:55:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:55:36 <trackbot> Date: 09 May 2016
11:55:47 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:55:56 <renato> Chair: Renato
11:56:04 <renato> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160509
11:56:12 <renato> regrets+ PhilA, Ivan
11:56:22 <renato> present+ renato
11:56:51 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
11:57:17 <jo> present+ jo
11:57:31 <jo> regrets+ caroline
11:57:48 <simonstey> present+
11:57:58 <michaelS> present+ michaelS
11:58:16 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:58:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html jo
11:58:19 <Serena> present+ Serena
11:58:41 <jo> rrsagent, make logs public
11:58:45 <mmcrober> mmcrober has joined #poe
11:59:48 <mmcrober> present+ mmcrober
11:59:54 <renato> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Scribes
12:00:20 <simonstey> list participants
12:00:24 <simonstey> zakim, list participants
12:00:24 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been renato, jo, simonstey, michaelS, Serena, mmcrober
12:00:28 <benws> benws has joined #poe
12:02:06 <nandana> nandana has joined #poe
12:02:06 <magyarblip> magyarblip has joined #poe
12:02:10 <Serena> scribe Serena
12:02:28 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
12:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html jo
12:02:40 <smyles> smyles has joined #poe
12:02:50 <jo> scribe: serena
12:02:58 <Serena> thanks jo
12:04:19 <smyles> present+ smyles
12:04:24 <Serena> Renato: Welcome to Brian (Thompson Reuters)
12:04:26 <benws> present+ benws
12:04:50 <victor> victor has joined #poe
12:04:58 <Serena> Renato: we hava to approve the minutes of the last meeting
12:05:12 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes
12:05:17 <michaelS> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes
12:05:25 <mmcrober> +1
12:05:28 <benws> +1
12:05:30 <smyles> +1
12:05:31 <Serena> +1
12:05:32 <michaelS> +1
12:05:35 <victor> +1
12:05:59 <Serena> Renato: editors for documents have to be confirmed
12:06:34 <nandana_> nandana_ has joined #poe
12:06:39 <Serena> : for the information model, we propose myself and Serena as editors
12:07:26 <Serena> Renato: for the vocabulary spec, we propose myself, mmcrober, and James
12:07:32 <Serena> thanks Jo ;-)
12:07:33 <victor> present+ victor
12:07:58 <mmcrober> q+
12:08:02 <michaelS> do we have the names of the Vocabl doc?
12:08:06 <Serena> … comments from the group on these two specs
12:08:23 <jo> q+ to note that formally we need resultions of editors
12:08:41 <Serena> renato: consensus on having two deliverables
12:08:58 <Serena> … did you want to revisit that?
12:09:26 <Serena> mmcrober: yes, from memory we have reasonable arguments from both side
12:09:36 <Serena> renato: we didn't make a decision
12:13:06 <Serena> mmcrober: high level diagram to point to the model
12:13:11 <renato> q?
12:13:18 <mmcrober> ack mmcrober
12:13:22 <Serena> q?
12:13:26 <Serena> ack jo
12:13:26 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to note that formally we need resultions of editors
12:13:47 <Serena> renato: any other comments?
12:14:29 <Serena> jo: raise an issue on having a single spec or not
12:14:40 <simonstey> issue-2
12:14:40 <trackbot> issue-2 -- Use Cases -- open
12:14:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/2
12:14:42 <simonstey> issue-1
12:14:42 <trackbot> issue-1 -- The number of times we need to refer to the target -- closed
12:14:42 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/1
12:15:09 <simonstey> issue-3
12:15:09 <trackbot> issue-3 -- Deliverables Work Plan -- open
12:15:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/issues/3
12:15:32 <Serena> q?
12:15:58 <renato> action: renato add issues related to moving to one spec
12:15:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Add issues related to moving to one spec [on Renato Iannella - due 2016-05-16].
12:16:42 <renato> RESOLUTION: editors for the Info Model ; Renato and Serena
12:16:52 <simonstey> +q
12:16:56 <Serena> q?
12:17:02 <simonstey> -q
12:17:10 <Serena> q?
12:17:33 <victor> +q
12:17:46 <mmcrober> +1
12:17:47 <smyles> +1
12:17:50 <michaelS> +1
12:18:06 <Serena> +1
12:18:28 <Serena> victor: I'd like to join the work on the ontology
12:19:00 <Serena> renato: we can keep you as the first reserve
12:19:18 <renato> PROPOSED: editors for the Vocab Expression: Renato, Michael, Mo, Stuart, James
12:19:21 <simonstey> +1
12:19:26 <Serena> +1
12:19:28 <jo> q+ to make reference to mmcrober's point
12:19:33 <Serena> q?
12:19:36 <smyles> +1
12:19:38 <michaelS> +1
12:19:44 <Serena> ack victor
12:19:44 <benws> +1
12:19:44 <mmcrober> ack victor
12:19:48 <jo> ack me
12:19:48 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to make reference to mmcrober's point
12:19:52 <Serena> acj jo
12:19:55 <Serena> ack jo
12:20:33 <mmcrober> q+
12:20:36 <Serena> jo: five editors is potentially a lot
12:20:41 <Serena> q?
12:20:48 <mmcrober> q-
12:20:59 <Serena> renato: different skills from the individuals
12:21:44 <jo> q?
12:21:55 <Serena> … everyone contributes and will be acknowledged appropriately
12:21:56 <mmcrober> +1
12:22:00 <smyles> +1
12:22:01 <Serena> +1
12:22:10 <renato> RESOLVED: editors for the Vocab Expression: Renato, Michael, Mo, Stuart, James
12:22:25 <Serena> renato: item 2 on the agenda
12:22:31 <Serena> … named of the specification
12:22:35 <jo> topic: name of specification
12:23:41 <mmcrober> q+
12:23:46 <Serena> renato: the issue is that the new spec will be called ODRL information model
12:23:54 <Serena> ack mmcrober
12:24:18 <Serena> mmcrober: we need a pretty strong case to change the name
12:24:54 <Serena> … there is no rule stating that the name of the spec directly the name of the group creating the spec
12:25:05 <Serena> … in favor of keeping odrl
12:25:21 <simonstey> +q
12:25:24 <Serena> renato: any comments?
12:25:37 <Serena> ack simonstey
12:25:44 <jo> q+ to note that phila said there are specific sensitivities regarding name
12:25:55 <Serena> simonstey: where does the O in ODRL came from?
12:27:16 <Serena> renato: there was another language for patterns and it was not open, the competitor was not open to emphasize ODRL was open
12:27:30 <benws> +q
12:27:36 <Serena> … we added the O
12:27:41 <Serena> ack jo
12:27:41 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to note that phila said there are specific sensitivities regarding name
12:27:43 <jo> ack me
12:28:01 <smyles> agree with mmcrober
12:28:28 <mmcrober> q+
12:28:33 <Serena> jo: I suggest that what we do is that the name is ODRL for now
12:28:39 <Serena> ack benws
12:28:47 <Serena> ack mmcrober
12:30:08 <smyles> open digital riot language?
12:30:14 <Serena> renato: the issue is DMR is an issue for W3C, the big issue is the R = rights. What we did is in ODRL 2.0 there is not the word right in the spec. We used policy.
12:30:45 <Serena> … ODRL stands for ODRL
12:30:59 <jo> PROPOSAL: The standard is known as ODRL, for historical reasons, there is not specific meaning attached to any of the letters
12:31:03 <renato> q?
12:31:03 <mmcrober> +1
12:31:05 <smyles> GNU
12:31:11 <Serena> q?
12:31:45 <renato> RESOLUTION: We will use the name ODRL for our devliverables
12:31:54 <michaelS> +1
12:31:58 <smyles> we have two RESOLUTIONs
12:32:00 <benws> -1
12:32:14 <smyles> oh wait -  one PROPOSAL, one RESOLUTION and no vote?
12:33:00 <simonstey> -1
12:33:29 <renato> RESOLUTION: last resolution is revoked
12:33:59 <Serena> topic: deliverable workplan
12:34:18 <mmcrober> q+
12:34:44 <Serena> renato: first public working draft as a slight modification of ODRL one
12:34:49 <Serena> ack mmcrober
12:35:20 <Serena> mmcrober: from the last session, we have a discussion about having the voc RDF centric
12:36:03 <Serena> … or not. The ontology doc is generated with RDF with html template. In transitioning, do we maintain our process?
12:37:16 <benws> q+
12:37:20 <Serena> renato: good point, the mechanics of the spec have to be considered too. We just need to look at how the process works. Editors have to sit down and discuss it.
12:37:25 <Serena> ack benws
12:38:08 <smyles> q+
12:38:12 <Serena> benws: clarification: it makes perfect sense to have an RDF-centric approach, but if we want to move on we need to go for jason first
12:38:13 <jo> q+ to agree with and amplify benws's point
12:38:16 <Serena> q?
12:38:33 <Serena> … people reading the spec will be jason minded
12:38:39 <Serena> ack smyles
12:38:47 <Serena> q?
12:39:15 <Serena> smyles: jason is not a great language for modeling
12:39:17 <Serena> ack jo
12:39:17 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to agree with and amplify benws's point
12:39:50 <smyles> q+
12:39:52 <simonstey> I would suggest to use some javascript magic as in https://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-primer/
12:40:00 <simonstey> to switch between the different encodings
12:40:28 <Serena> q?
12:40:33 <Serena> ack smyles
12:41:42 <Serena> smyles: json is not generated from RDF. We can't commit to preserve any encodings. We ended up to: guidelines for any kind of implementation.
12:41:45 <Serena> q?
12:42:34 <Serena> renato: we would try to use our ontology to generate the voc spec
12:42:57 <Serena> … there will be the xml, the json, the json-ld
12:43:23 <benws> +1
12:43:32 <Serena> … we need to express that in the narratives of the doc
12:43:34 <Serena> q?
12:44:16 <Serena> renato: fist working draft will be the starting point
12:44:29 <Serena> s fist/first
12:45:06 <jo> s/fist/first
12:45:16 <Serena> … editors look at the doc and decide the issues to be discussed
12:45:24 <jo> s?s fist/first??
12:45:56 <Serena> topic: use cases
12:46:17 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
12:46:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html jo
12:47:19 <Serena> michaelS: a number of use cases have been written, I've been reading them, requirements should be extracted from the use cases, I've shared the questions with the persons editing them on the wiki
12:47:33 <Serena> … the requirements should be clear, measurable, testable
12:48:08 <Serena> … on GitHub we have the editors draft
12:48:17 <Serena> … group requirements, refinement
12:49:23 <Serena> renato: back to the editing, benws and simonstey will join michaelS in editing the use cases document
12:49:27 <renato> PROPOSAL: Ben and Simon will also be editors on the UCR NOTE
12:49:34 <simonstey> +1
12:49:35 <Serena> +1
12:49:41 <benws> +1
12:49:41 <smyles> +1
12:49:59 <mmcrober> +1
12:50:32 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:50:41 <Serena> RESOLUTION: Ben and Simon will also be editors on the UCR NOTE
12:50:44 <renato> RESOLUTION: Ben and Simon will also be editors on the UCR NOTE
12:51:01 <jo> present+ brian
12:51:38 <Serena> renato: we're also looking to the other deliverables which is formal semantics, we're contacting people to take care of it.
12:51:49 <Serena> q?
12:52:47 <simonstey> +q
12:52:56 <Serena> michaelS: the issue is how to share, in the description there are also requirements, should we extract the requirements from the description or do we ask the authors?
12:53:02 <Serena> ack simonstey
12:53:26 <benws> q+
12:53:27 <Serena> simonstey: we encouraged the authors to extract the requirements, the editors have the power to extract new requirements
12:53:55 <Serena> … raise an issue if you're not convinced it's a requirement
12:54:13 <Serena> … the WG has to say this is truly a requirement
12:54:17 <jo> s|s?s fist/first??||
12:54:35 <Serena> q?
12:54:44 <Serena> ack benws
12:55:41 <Serena> topic: any other business
12:55:58 <Serena> renato: F2F meeting in Lisbon - TPAC
12:56:18 <Serena> … add your name to the list of attendees if you plan to go
12:56:37 <Serena> renato: final final business?
12:57:03 <Serena> michaelS: next monday is holidays
12:57:37 <jo> straw poll?
12:58:03 <jo> PROPOSAL: no meeting next week
12:58:08 <Serena> renato: meeting next week
12:58:23 <victor> It is day off in Spain. I might make an effort to attend.
12:58:39 <simonstey> 0
12:58:46 <jo> 0
12:58:49 <renato> 0
12:58:49 <mmcrober> 0
12:58:50 <magyarblip> 0
12:58:54 <Serena> +1
12:58:54 <benws> -1
12:58:57 <smyles> 0
12:58:59 <michaelS> +1
13:00:25 <jo> RESOLUTION: The meeting will take place on 16th May
13:00:39 <Serena> benws: we will loose a lot of meetings if we follow back holidays on each countries
13:01:08 <renato> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:01:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html renato
13:01:11 <jo> [meeting closed]
13:01:19 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
13:01:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html jo
13:01:36 <Serena> Serena has left #poe
13:03:28 <jo> zakim, bye
13:03:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been renato, jo, simonstey, michaelS, Serena, mmcrober, smyles, benws, victor, brian
13:03:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #poe
13:03:38 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
13:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-minutes.html jo
13:03:47 <jo> rrsagent, bye
13:03:47 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-actions.rdf :
13:03:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: renato add issues related to moving to one spec [1]
13:03:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/05/09-poe-irc#T12-15-58