17:01:23 RRSAgent has joined #webperf 17:01:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-webperf-irc 17:01:25 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:01:25 Zakim has joined #webperf 17:01:27 Zakim, this will be web-per 17:01:27 ok, trackbot 17:01:28 Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference 17:01:28 Date: 04 May 2016 17:01:31 present+ Yoav 17:01:34 present+ Ilya 17:01:43 present+ Plh 17:02:45 toddreifsteck has joined #webperf 17:03:22 present+ Todd 17:04:45 first up, charter updates 17:04:55 * keep Preload, Resource Hints, and rIC as part of the webperf group 17:04:55 * move Server Timing, Frame Timing, and Reporting + NEL to WICG 17:06:13 --> https://w3c.github.io/charter-webperf/ draft charter 17:07:01 Ilya: we have some implementations for the first set, and none for the second, thus the proposal 17:07:10 Yoav: makes sense to me 17:07:25 ... Frame Timing is a bit more advance 17:08:03 Ilya: yes and no, but we keep changing subtantially and no update on the implementation side. could be convinced either way 17:08:26 Todd: we should ensure that we publish current work as Notes before we drop from the charter 17:09:18 ... we could also allow folks from the WICG to contribute 17:09:30 wesleyhales has joined #webperf 17:09:41 Present+ Wesley 17:10:15 Yoav: only thing is that the work on server timing wouldn't move forward 17:10:40 wesleyhales has joined #webperf 17:11:27 Ilya: so, transfer ownership of the repo of WICG and publish as Notes, and then readopt them in the future if needed 17:11:35 s/Wesley/wesleyhales/ 17:12:03 plh: ok, so server timing, reporting, NEL. what about frame timing? 17:12:21 todd: don't foresee us implementing unless there is incredible adoption 17:12:42 ilya: ok, then I think we'll keep working on the use cases and current design isn't the best 17:12:57 ... so it's reasonable to move to WICG 17:13:18 ACTION: plh to publish Frame Timing, Server Timing, Reporting, NEL 17:13:18 Created ACTION-169 - Publish frame timing, server timing, reporting, nel [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11]. 17:13:23 (as Notes) 17:14:54 notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_fANywFCL6B_-GTuGXlagQlhceAElpOgU2H3XFmULKg/edit 17:15:06 Ilya: we added some estimates as well 17:17:29 next up: Resource Timing L1 17:18:26 1. Make sure we looked at 17:18:26 https://w3ctag.github.io/security-questionnaire/ 17:18:26 and have answers in the spec for all of the relevant questions. 17:18:26 2. Get a review or an ack from webappsec 17:18:26 3. Transition to CR 17:18:49 https://rawgit.com/w3c/resource-timing/V1/index.html 17:19:27 ACTION: plh to make the draft is up-to-date 17:19:27 Created ACTION-170 - Make the draft is up-to-date [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11]. 17:20:15 L1 comments: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2016Apr/0009.html 17:21:36 Tests--https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/web-platform-tests/tree/resource-timing-enhancements 17:22:39 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/402 17:22:46 deep link: https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/web-platform-tests/commit/82d7e96a4449498f355c18424957028d07f62b5c 17:25:52 plh will keep cranking the wheel on that one 17:26:15 Yoav: I'd like to use resource timing to test the preload implementation 17:26:56 ... implementation is flaky at the moment 17:27:30 ... if I get to a stable implementation, I might try to have it ship in webkit 17:28:42 Ilya: for L2, the issues around resources that don't return responses, I summarized the status on the chrome bug and started a thread with security and privacy team at Google 17:29:17 Topic: "local" vs "remote" performance API's 17:29:24 Ilya: got some good feedback 17:29:30 ... should we publish as a Note 17:29:56 Todd: we should 17:30:11 ... only downside is that we'll get feedback :) 17:30:27 Ilya: we're having those discussions anyway 17:30:57 Resolved: let's publish as a Note 17:32:10 ACTIOn: plh to create a repo for best practices document 17:32:10 Created ACTION-171 - Create a repo for best practices document [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11]. 17:32:18 Ilya: I'll transform into respec 17:33:56 Topic: PV 2 17:34:23 Ilya: having a change section would be good 17:37:38 plh: I'll make a PR for that 17:37:43 ... and keep into iterating on the tests 17:38:12 riC test: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2163 17:38:25 Topic: rIC 17:38:45 Ilya: we may have to add some additional tests 17:38:55 plh: i'll add that to my TODO list 17:39:20 Ilya: I need to add a privacy section 17:39:33 ... we kind of have one but need to pull it out 17:39:52 Todd: I touched based with Justin on that front 17:40:12 ... one concern is that Chrome pipeline becoming the pipeline for developers 17:40:28 ... the spec is overly specific sometimes. I need to check on that. 17:40:45 Ilya: concept of idle time is user agent defiend 17:41:04 Todd: main problem comes from layout 17:41:12 ... so ordering of events and when layout happens 17:41:30 ... trick is that guidance shouldn't be to a specific engine 17:41:39 ... so I need to figure this out 17:42:00 ... will look over it next week or two 17:43:26 next step: update security/privacy, wait for Todd within 2 weeks 17:43:37 ... then wide review from security/privacy 17:43:40 ... then CR 17:44:45 Topic: Resource Hints 17:44:54 html updates: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/1141 17:45:00 Yoav: Domenic is doing some cleanups related to HTML 17:45:12 ... and adding the link relations to HTML itself 17:45:29 ... and ask if the relations apply only to link or also a and area 17:45:47 Yoav: I see a weak use cases for a and area 17:46:27 ... I don't think they're implemented anywhere else, except for prefetch 17:46:48 Ilya: context is that prefetch was supported for a and area and domenic was asking for others 17:47:16 ... I don't see a huge value so I'm ok to remove those 17:47:36 ... but not even sure on prefetch for a and area 17:47:45 Yoav: ok, so next step is testing to see who supports what 17:47:58 Todd: don't know for Edge 17:48:12 Ilya: we can write a quick test and see what happens 17:48:43 ... I found that prerender has some issues in Edge for example 17:48:54 ... in all scenarios 17:49:25 ... it's tricky to get some tests since we get no clear signals 17:49:43 ... looking at TCP dumps to verify that it's working 17:50:39 Todd: e.g. dns-prefetch 17:51:28 plh: would be good to send feedback to WebDriver folks 17:53:18 Topic: nav timing 17:53:45 Ilya: L1 defines its own time origin because we didn't have the current def 17:53:54 ... we're duplicating for historical reasons 17:55:47 https://www.w3.org/TR/navigation-timing-2/#historical 17:56:29 plh: maybe change the styling of that section? 18:00:49 Ilya: or remove it and link to L1 18:00:55 sorry guys, need to drop off, dialing back in.. 18:03:03 "All time values defined in this appendix are measured in milliseconds since midnight of January 1, 1970 (UTC)." 18:08:52 http://web.mit.edu/ravinet/www/polaris_nsdi16.pdf 19:12:51 yoav has joined #webperf 19:39:01 Zakim has left #webperf 20:15:09 yoav has joined #webperf 20:43:25 rniwa has joined #webperf 20:56:17 wesleyhales has left #webperf 21:30:55 yoav has joined #webperf 22:00:13 yoav has joined #webperf 22:37:28 plh has joined #webperf