18:34:17 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 18:34:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-irc 18:34:19 RRSAgent, make logs world 18:34:19 Zakim has joined #aapi 18:34:21 Zakim, this will be 18:34:21 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 18:34:22 Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference 18:34:22 Date: 26 April 2016 18:35:38 clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 03-May-2016, 20:00 UTC) 18:36:07 agenda: this 18:36:14 agenda+ ACTION-2043 (Joseph/Cynthia) Review UIA mapping of role="status". 18:36:21 agenda+ ACTION-2055 (All) Mappings for new values of aria-haspopup -- create actions. 18:36:32 agenda+ ACTION-1569 (Jason/Joseph) Section that describes AAPI differences -- done? 18:36:41 agenda+ ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Gnome bugzilla re: group position for ATK/AT-SPI. 18:36:51 agenda+ ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2. Latest developments, including mapping of role="form". 18:37:00 agenda+ ACTION-2044 (Rich/Joseph) Single section for exceptions to presentation role in ARIA spec for Core-AAM to link to. 18:37:06 agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1686) 18:37:15 agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA 18:37:21 agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA 18:37:31 agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26 18:37:37 agenda+ be done. 18:37:47 chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer 18:38:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-minutes.html clown 18:56:18 present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer 18:57:40 Rich has joined #aapi 18:58:52 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 19:03:18 regrets: Cynthia_Shelly 19:03:36 scribe: joanie 19:04:42 present+ Bryan_Garaventa 19:05:16 present+ Rich_Schwerdtffeger 19:06:01 Zakim, take up item 1 19:06:01 agendum 1. "ACTION-2043 (Joseph/Cynthia) Review UIA mapping of role="status"." taken up [from clown] 19:06:09 action-2043? 19:06:09 action-2043 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify UIA mapping of role="status" -- due 2016-03-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW 19:06:09 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2043 19:06:27 JS: This is a Cynthia-related action. 19:06:44 JS: I modified the mapping of role="status". 19:06:49 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-status 19:06:53 RS: Did she want it to be status bar? 19:06:56 JS: No. 19:07:06 JS: She has it as a group, with a localized role of status. 19:07:21 RS: Will that cause ATs to announce whenever there are changes? 19:07:28 JS: It has a live setting of polite. 19:07:35 RS: That should be ok then. 19:07:44 JS: I just want Cynthia to review. 19:07:54 Zakim, next item 19:07:54 agendum 2. "ACTION-2055 (All) Mappings for new values of aria-haspopup -- create actions." taken up [from clown] 19:08:04 JS: This is a mechanical one. 19:08:10 issue-1025? 19:08:10 issue-1025 -- Drive mappings of the new enumerated type values for aria-haspopup -- open 19:08:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1025 19:08:14 JS: Also, I killed this action and made it an issue. 19:08:26 JS: We need people to consider the mappings for aria-haspopup. 19:08:34 JS: Because now it will be a token list. 19:08:45 JS: So all the platforms will need to adjust their mappings. 19:09:17 RS: All the OSes have an attribute for popups, right? 19:10:06 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue 19:10:16 JS: The link above is for True 19:10:35 RS: So you have the popup. 19:10:43 JS: If it's on a push button, you change the role. 19:10:52 RS: (Reading) 19:11:07 JS: AXShowMenu and AXPressed make sense. 19:11:21 JS: Looking at this now, I have a feeling we won't get this into 1.1. 19:11:33 JS: AXAPI says it's a menu. 19:11:51 BG: Wasn't the original proposal to create a separate attribute, like aria-popuptype. 19:12:05 BG: And this would be interpretable by the ATs. 19:12:21 BG: And then you don't have to redesign aria-haspopup. 19:12:32 JS: That would then need to be taken to the Thursday meeting. 19:13:53 RS: (Points out cases where it is not expanded) 19:14:39 JS: During the meeting, Joanie proposed keeping the state exposure as-is and then expose the type via object attribute. 19:15:23 BG: Say you had an edit field, and it was a combobox. But it also popped up a menu when you right-click. 19:15:29 aria-garaventa 19:15:50 BG: How can we expose both? 19:16:11 JS: Combo box has a list. And it has a menu too (in this example). 19:16:21 RS: This should not be the expand/collapse state. 19:16:27 JS: (Reads from spec) 19:16:49 RS: You want to know what it's going to. 19:17:09 RS: So you need something to tell you if the popup will be a dialog, tree, grid, etc. 19:17:16 RS: Did we include list? 19:17:29 JS: The classic definition of a combo box is a list of options. 19:17:37 JS: So I think it's been that way since 1.0. 19:17:48 JS: In 1.1 we're adding all the other types. 19:18:14 BG: Currently, haspopup pops up a menu. 19:18:29 RS: I think that's for a drop menu. 19:18:42 BG: The state is implicitly true for the combobox role. 19:18:55 RS: When it's applied to a button, it's always a menu. Today. 19:19:13 BG: It will be interesting if they put aria-haspopup on a button with a type of dialog. 19:19:20 BG: Then it's not a menubutton. 19:19:32 BG: This will need to be addressed. 19:19:40 JS: Someone will need to take an action. 19:20:07 RS: You can assign this to me to talk to Alex. 19:22:09 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue 19:23:04 RS: If you look at the above, you'll see IA2 has a buttonmenu role when it's on a push button. 19:23:18 action: Rich to coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . 19:23:19 Created ACTION-2056 - Coordinate the mappings for the various aapis of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-05-03]. 19:23:26 action-2056? 19:23:26 action-2056 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Coordinate the mappings for the various aapis of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN 19:23:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056 19:23:57 JD: You could potentially do in IA2 what is proposed for ATK/AT-SPI2. 19:24:49 RS: A button menu could potentially popup a tree. 19:24:57 RS: I think Matt is going to have to address that. 19:25:13 RS: What does it mean if you have a button that opens a dialog box? 19:25:21 JS: Like "Save as..." 19:25:34 JS: But that's different from a button with a down-pointing triangle. 19:26:02 RS: We need to say that, for true and false, what do we say about haspopup for other popup types. 19:26:30 JS: Unless... I can see the AT not caring if the button became a button menu. They might just want to know what will pop up. 19:27:31 JS: You have seven days to do this, Rich. Would you like more time? 19:27:35 RS: Yes. 19:28:49 RS: Give me three weeks. 19:30:07 RS: How are you doing this? 19:30:12 RS: Should I create a branch? 19:30:15 JS: Yes. 19:30:27 JS: And either give me a pull request or ask me to merge it in. 19:32:17 Zakim, next item 19:32:17 agendum 3. "ACTION-1569 (Jason/Joseph) Section that describes AAPI differences -- done?" taken up [from clown] 19:32:28 action-1569? 19:32:28 action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN 19:32:28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569 19:32:45 JS: There's a section in the core mapping written by Jason and Cynthia. 19:32:56 JS: I've got confirmation from Cynthia. 19:33:06 JS: I'm waiting to hear back from Jason. 19:33:16 JS: We'll leave this one open. 19:33:19 Zakim, next item 19:33:19 agendum 4. "ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Gnome bugzilla re: group position for ATK/AT-SPI." taken up [from clown] 19:33:29 action-1409? 19:33:29 action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2016-04-07 -- OPEN 19:33:29 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409 19:33:34 JS: I thought we dealt with this last week. 19:33:48 JS: Joanie needs to add new API to ATK/AT-SPI2. 19:33:59 scribenick: clown 19:34:06 RS: Is it done? 19:34:15 JD: No it's not done. 19:34:42 JD: We need to create a new ATK interface, and then we can add all sorts of new information. 19:34:48 RS: In the 1.1 timeframe? 19:35:00 JD: I was hoping to, but I'm busy with other things. 19:35:05 JD: So, it's not quite done yet. 19:35:35 JD: Even though not ideal, we are already exposing setsize, etc. via object attributes. 19:35:54 JD: So if the new interface is not done, we stay with the 1.0 implementation, and we don't change core. 19:36:08 JD: If it is done, then we can change core. 19:36:18 JD: We are not really blocking anything. 19:36:40 JD: But, I hope to get the new interface done in the 1.1 timeframe. 19:38:26 JS: I would like to change the due date of the action so it doesn't keep coming up. 19:38:45 JD But I would like to be reminded more frequently. 19:38:56 JS: So leave the due date the way it is? 19:39:31 JD: But, we don't have to discuss it at length every meeting; just check in on the status. 19:39:33 scribe: joanie 19:39:37 Zakim, next item 19:39:37 agendum 5. "ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2. Latest developments, including mapping of role="form"." taken up [from clown] 19:39:45 action-2022 19:39:45 action-2022 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Followup with alex about ia2 discussion re: adding a landmark role, similar to atk -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN 19:39:45 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2022 19:39:51 action-1688? 19:39:51 Sorry, but action-1688 does not exist. 19:39:58 JS: I think action-2022 is done. 19:40:03 action-1668? 19:40:03 action-1668 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN 19:40:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668 19:40:16 JS: This is the new IA2 role for landmark. 19:40:21 JS: This was done last week. 19:40:32 JS: One of the things which came up was what to do about role="form". 19:40:38 RS: I answered Alex. 19:40:54 JS: And the decision was to change the mapping to ROLE_LANDMARK. 19:41:07 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0197.html 19:41:07 JS: And I was going to make a similar change to ATK. 19:41:27 JS: But then Bryan sent the email (at the URL above) 19:41:38 BG: The group thought it would be good to take a poll. 19:41:59 RS: What Freedom Scientific said is that they have to handle the old case and the new case. 19:42:09 RS: But they said there was no problem. 19:42:22 RS: I've not yet talked to Jamie, but he didn't have problems with the landmark role. 19:42:35 BG: Is there any way to make it act like a named region? 19:42:49 BG: So it's not in the landmarks list unless it has a name. 19:43:13 JS: The WebAim group is saying if the form has a name, it is a landmark; but if it doesn't, then it's not. 19:43:21 RS: I don't agree with that. 19:43:32 JS: And I think that belongs in the spec. 19:43:54 BG: This was originally proposed by Steve Faulkner and then supported by Léonie and Birkir. 19:44:12 BG: It was related to .NET pages. 19:44:29 BG: Also, on some pages, you'll get a form around one button. 19:44:39 RS: But that's just bad coding practices. 19:45:39 BG: I don't have a problem exposing it as landmark. But how will ATs present it? 19:46:27 RS: I don't think we should change things because of some less-than-ideal practices. 19:46:51 BG: I've seen this on Facebook, where a form contains the logout button -- and only the logout button. 19:47:07 19:47:12 JS: I found another example in this. From Tim. 19:47:21 JS: Markup is above. 19:47:41 JS: You only want the search in the case above to be the landmark; not the form inside it. 19:48:01 JS: So you'd have two landmarks in virtually the same place. 19:48:12 RS: Why not do