IRC log of DPUB on 2016-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:54:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #DPUB
16:54:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:54:54 [clapierre]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:55:09 [clapierre]
scribe: clapierre
16:55:13 [clapierre]
chair: clapierre
16:55:18 [clapierre]
title: Accessibility DPUB Task Force Weekly Meeting
17:00:24 [dkaplan3]
dkaplan3 has joined #dpub
17:00:37 [clapierre]
topic: 1. #22 Consider a new Name for our Note :leading contender is “Digital Publishing Accessibility Analysis"
17:00:48 [clapierre]
present+ Charles_LaPierre
17:01:31 [clapierre]
present+ George_Kerscher
17:01:44 [lrosenth]
lrosenth has joined #dpub
17:06:25 [clapierre]
present+ Jean
17:06:36 [clapierre]
present+ Deborah
17:08:03 [clapierre]
Deborah: I am fine with this.
17:08:25 [clapierre]
George: we were focused on W3C stuff, not ePub
17:08:59 [clapierre]
Deborah: we should be clear analysis of Digital Publishing Accessibility needs in W3C
17:09:13 [lrosenth]
present+ Leonard
17:10:16 [clapierre]
Deborah: analysis of W3C documents with respect to Digital Publishing.
17:12:19 [clapierre]
Deborah: Digital Publishing and Accessibility in W3C Documents.
17:12:47 [clapierre]
George: what about "Analysis"?
17:13:17 [clapierre]
Deborah: does adding Analysis give more information
17:14:06 [clapierre]
Charles: we will go with this for now, and see what DPUB says.
17:14:25 [clapierre]
Topic: #21 Remove Section "Work in Progress”
17:15:34 [clapierre]
George: we should use W3C words here for Public Draft/Editors draft etc…
17:15:45 [clapierre]
Deborah: we could look at mobile note or ask Ivan.
17:16:12 [clapierre]
Charles: ACTION ask Ivan regarding #22
17:16:27 [clapierre]
TOPIC: #20 Add references to PDF & PDF/UA in Section C 
17:17:13 [clapierre]
Deborah: I agree we should have PDF in the appendix.
17:18:33 [clapierre]
Jean: I was at JATS conference and I asked a platform guys about accessibility, everyone was asking how to get their data into PDF.
17:19:00 [clapierre]
Deborah: PDF is a huge part of digital publishing, its difficult to make it accessible depending on how they are made.
17:19:17 [clapierre]
…, the important thing would be how to make accessible PDF.
17:19:45 [clapierre]
George: do you have a recomendation for us Lenard? maybe for printing but for a11y should we have a different view?
17:20:31 [clapierre]
Leonard: WCAG itself is the standard. There are two key issues, WCAG has a section on how to make a11y PDF's .
17:20:44 [clapierre]
Deborah: I knew that existed but forgot about it.
17:21:47 [clapierre]
Leonard: PDF/UF is a open standard and it gets its guidance from W3C. If we start with those two things as guidance, we could do lots more, and asked people to draft content, but will leave it to you all on how much you need.
17:22:18 [clapierre]
Deborah: PDF is a very well used technology, here is some W3C specs, FDF is not a W3C standard although it is a ISO standard.
17:22:44 [clapierre]
…, these are important for people to know about just like Diagrammar.
17:22:52 [clapierre]
George: I know PDF/UA is a standard.
17:24:03 [clapierre]
Leonard: UA universal access its goal is to starting with WCAG and how to make PDF accessible, and builds on things you would expect. PDF headers here is how WCAG understands headers and here is how PDF does headers and how to make those things accessible.
17:25:02 [clapierre]
Deborah: one of the things in our gap analysis, sometimes WCAG has everything we need, why is there is a gap because the reading systems or production tools have a gap, not in the spec itself.
17:26:09 [clapierre]
Jean: education needs to happen, just not sure how to make it happen.
17:26:35 [clapierre]
Deborah: I though you can just use acrobat and click make it accessible, but there is more to that and it is an education thing.
17:26:48 [clapierre]
…, thats a gap but it may not be a w3c gap
17:27:13 [clapierre]
George: I am happy to add it to the appendix, authoring tools and reading systems are lacking in implementation.
17:27:20 [clapierre]
Jean: thats a good way to put it.
17:28:09 [clapierre]
Deborah: is PDF/UA and PDFA compatible?
17:28:19 [clapierre]
Leonard: Yes.
17:28:32 [clapierre]
George: do we have a decision.
17:29:15 [clapierre]
Deborah: yes we will add it to the appendix, with links to the various standards and that there is a gap in reading systems/authoring tools.
17:31:18 [clapierre]
George: I am on the PDF/UA so maybe I should draft this. I will put it together next week and send it out to Leonard and Charles for review and publishing to the note.
17:31:58 [clapierre]
Topic: Misunderstandable remark on gap #29
17:32:57 [clapierre]
section 2.7 says
17:32:57 [clapierre]
"The Gap: Current W3C WAI Specifications and Guidelines have poor implementation, probably due to lack of authoring tools, reading system support, and implementation guidance."
17:32:57 [clapierre]
This is a general statement which may not be justified. It should specifically say which part of the guidelines (I suspect related to phonetic spelling) have a poor implementation.
17:33:11 [clapierre]
Jean: didn't we go out of out way to let them deal with this?
17:33:51 [clapierre]
George: we are not aware of implentations, w3c process requires 2 implementations, but we don't know of any
17:34:10 [clapierre]
Deborah: this TF are unaware of the implementations
17:35:08 [clapierre]
George: we do have 2 but are not in main stream publishing… but that is DAISY implementations… although now that ePub we may have it but whats the point we need to make here? we are not aware of comment implementations.
17:35:15 [clapierre]
Deborah: sure thats right
17:35:56 [clapierre]
Charles: will add we are not aware of any well known implementations within the publishing community.
17:36:17 [clapierre]
Topic: Annotation (A2) #30
17:36:41 [clapierre]
Leonard: I am in the process of rewriting that.
17:37:02 [clapierre]
Topic: A6. Mathematics #32
17:37:33 [clapierre]
Charles: Peter has agreed to write something up on this topic.
17:37:54 [clapierre]
Topic: B Gap analysis #33
17:38:07 [lrosenth]
changes for #30 are posted
17:39:25 [clapierre]
Deborah: its a preference matter, and he has a better sense of style issues..
17:39:57 [clapierre]
Charles: ACTION to bring in the table of contents of gap analysis into our note directly linking out to the various wiki pages directly.
17:41:53 [clapierre]
Topic: 4. DPUB Accessibility and Personalization (User Preferences)
17:42:24 [clapierre]
Deborah: I do agree we should help where we can and maybe just decide how to do that.
17:43:07 [clapierre]
Leonard: there is one small section on fonts, but there are others. user facing style sheets are deprecated but are required for accessible content.
17:43:37 [clapierre]
Deborah: we assume there is personalization
17:44:12 [clapierre]
George: Diagrammar, simplified language for cognitive, tactile images, and personalization automation of that content is huge.
17:45:04 [clapierre]
Deborah: what we need to do is provide more use cases… for PWP there is a lot of use cases, common one never written down, which is if a control is a visible button and screen reader accessible word that it show me that for voice control.
17:45:17 [clapierre]
…, diagrammar / 3D printing is a use case.
17:46:30 [clapierre]
George: we had in diagrammar and on website, we went through 70 use cases we document, and built requirements from the use cases and linked back. you changed the website… where are those use cases from the first year of the DIAGRAM project from 6 years ago. If you don't have them I may have them.
17:46:59 [clapierre]
Deborah: Leonard, do you have the use cases from PDF/UA.
17:47:08 [clapierre]
Leonard: Yes I should be able to get you that.
17:47:16 [clapierre]
George: we should be able to find existing use cases.
17:48:25 [clapierre]
Deobrah: here are the action items. we need to ask Markus/Tzviya when the deadlines are for these. Charles will dig up DIAGRAMMAR use cases and Lenard will dig up the PDF/UA use cases. We will need to go through them to see what is relavent and do word smithing etc...
17:48:38 [clapierre]
George: we should not delay the Note for this though.
17:48:51 [clapierre]
Deborah: we will finish the note then work on the use cases….
17:49:35 [clapierre]
Charles: Yes I will go ask Amaya where they are,
17:49:45 [clapierre]
George: they were in a wiki at some point.
17:49:49 [clapierre]
Charles: ok
17:52:17 [clapierre]
…, see you all on the DPUB call to discuss this on Monday.
17:52:27 [clapierre]
George: is there a dial in option?
17:52:39 [clapierre]
Charles: its the same # you called in here George
17:52:53 [clapierre]
George: Oh it wasn't in the announcement of the meeting agenda
17:53:14 [clapierre]
Charles: oversite, I will let Markus know so that it is included from now on.
17:53:37 [clapierre]
Charles: thanks everyone.
17:53:53 [clapierre]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:53:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate clapierre
17:56:21 [clapierre]
regrets+ Tzviya Mia
17:56:34 [clapierre]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:56:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate clapierre
18:23:18 [darobin]
darobin has joined #dpub
19:37:35 [clapierre]
clapierre has left #dpub