14:02:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwbp
14:02:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-irc
14:02:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:02:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
14:02:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:02:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
14:02:30 <trackbot> Date: 20 April 2016
14:02:31 <phila> zakim, code?
14:02:31 <Zakim> I have been told this is SDW
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14:02:53 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
14:02:54 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
14:02:59 <ClausStadler> present+ CLausStadler
14:03:06 <ClausStadler> present+ ClausStadler
14:03:07 <phila> zakim, this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m21f337caa6fb0e9933f1663cadc10141 Dial +1-617-324-0000, access code 643 407 318
14:03:07 <Zakim> got it, phila
14:03:12 <phila> zakim save this description
14:03:15 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
14:03:21 <frans> frans has joined #sdwbp
14:03:22 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m21f337caa6fb0e9933f1663cadc10141 or Dial +1-617-324-0000, access code 643 407 318
14:03:29 <Payam> present+ Payam
14:04:07 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdwbp
14:04:47 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20160420
14:05:14 <Linda> present+ Linda
14:05:32 <frans> present+ frans
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14:06:40 <jtandy> Topic: approve minutes
14:06:56 <jtandy> proposed: approve minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-sdwbp-minutes
14:07:03 <AndreaPerego> zakim, what is the passcode?
14:07:03 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m21f337caa6fb0e9933f1663cadc10141 Dial +1-617-324-0000, access code 643 407 318
14:07:07 <frans> +0
14:07:09 <Linda> +1
14:07:09 <Payam> +1
14:07:10 <ScottSimmons> +0
14:07:11 <billroberts> +1
14:07:11 <jtandy> +1
14:07:12 <ClausStadler> +0
14:07:33 <joshlieberman> I need to be on another call, but mostly not to do with me...
14:07:37 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
14:08:22 <Payam> topic: Part1
14:08:35 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
14:08:39 <jtandy> establishing an "agreed spatial ontology"
14:09:37 <Payam> frans: has identified the issue of finding an agreed spatial ontology- we are going to discuss this.
14:10:17 <Payam> frans: this is in the charter description; we need to find a solution for formalising things
14:11:06 <Payam> frans: charter mentions that the spatial data on the web best practices report will refer to ISO standards and other common vocabularies
14:11:57 <Payam> frans: it is difficult to choose a suitable standard while working with the spatial data on the web; so this can be a good opportunity
14:12:55 <Payam> frans: the question is how to interpret this- do we need to extend an existing common model? create a new model? we need to collect ideas on what an agreed spatial ontology will look like
14:13:04 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:13:11 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:13:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
14:13:16 <jtandy> q?
14:13:22 <Payam> frans: what would be the concepts/content for such an ontology
14:14:15 <Payam> jtandy: there are many ways/standards to specify spatial data on the web; the fragmentation and variety is an issue
14:15:12 <Payam> jtandy: we have potential to contribute to the web data community by simplifying the data operating environment for spatial data
14:16:03 <Payam> frans: the are many areas that have commonly accepted ways of specifying/sharing/exchanging concepts; e.g. numbering systems;
14:16:19 <jtandy> email thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Apr/0056.html
14:16:47 <Payam> jtandy: we need to define the scope and what we are aiming at
14:17:30 <Payam> jtandy: discusses the email thread on this topic; link above
14:17:59 <Payam> jtandy: are we talking about an upper-level ontology?
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14:21:09 <Payam> jtandy: are we talking about describing geometry constructs or are we talking about describing things?
14:21:35 <Linda> q+
14:21:47 <Payam> frans: what would be the concepts/content for such an ontology
14:21:47 <Payam> tandy: there are many ways/standards to specify spatial data on the web; the fragmentation and variety is an issue
14:21:47 <Payam> jtandy: we have potential to contribute to the web data community by simplifying the data operating environment for spatial data
14:21:47 <Payam> frans: the are many areas that have commonly accepted ways of specifying/sharing/exchanging concepts; e.g. numbering systems;
14:21:49 <Payam> email thread: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Apr/0056.html
14:21:49 <Payam> jtandy: we need to define the scope and what we are aiming at
14:21:49 <Payam> jtandy: discusses the email thread on this topic; link above
14:21:49 <Payam> jtandy: are we talking about an upper-level ontology?
14:21:59 <Payam> jtandy: are we talking about describing geometry constructs or are we talking about describing things?
14:22:11 <jtandy> q?
14:22:39 <jtandy> geometry can't be dealt with without the coordinate reference systems!
14:22:48 <Payam> frans: in practice what is mostly missing is a basic agreement about geometry; and if you address that then you need to also consider the reference systems
14:23:04 <jtandy> ack Linda
14:23:40 <Payam> Linda: geometry is already defined ISO190107(?)
14:23:54 <jtandy> s/107(?)/107/
14:24:12 <Payam> s/defined /defined in
14:24:52 <Payam> Linda: the ISO 190107 is (probably) being defined as a web ontology- we need to check this-
14:25:44 <Payam> Linda: doesn't see us as a group to define a fundamental concept like this- this could be beyond the scope of our work-
14:26:17 <Payam> jtandy: the ISO standard focuses on spatial geometry(?) and other communities can be unaware of that
14:26:33 <AndreaPerego> q+ to ask about the methodology for this "spatial ontology" - are we defining new things, or trying to give BPs on existing solutions?
14:27:05 <Payam> frans: we can work on creating more awareness; however that standard does not make assumptions about what a geometry is; it comes from geography domain.
14:27:35 <Payam> frans; in geo-sparql there is no references to basic geometry concepts
14:27:43 <billroberts> q+
14:27:48 <Payam> s/there is /there are
14:27:50 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
14:27:50 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask about the methodology for this "spatial ontology" - are we defining new things, or trying to give BPs on existing solutions?
14:29:11 <Payam> AndreaPerego: we already have models to specify geometry; it is not clear what we are aiming at; is it going to be a new definition? people already use existing concepts; maybe this can be a good practice on how to use what exists
14:29:15 <jtandy> ack billroberts
14:29:22 <Payam> ack billroberts
14:30:02 <billroberts> https://xkcd.com/927/
14:30:08 <Payam> billroberts: we need to understand who the target group is
14:30:40 <Payam> billroberts: who is it for and under what circumstance this can be used?
14:31:19 <Payam> jtandy: do we think there is already a reasonably well understood conceptual model in use?
14:31:26 <AndreaPerego> There are many!
14:31:58 <Linda> q+
14:32:01 <Payam> do we feel ISO190107 provides an exhaustive basis for geometry model?
14:32:04 <AndreaPerego> My concern is its re-use by non-specialists.
14:32:18 <jtandy> ack Linda
14:33:00 <Payam> Linda: thinks the ISO standard is a good basis-
14:33:18 <jtandy> proposed: ISO 19107 provides an exhaustive basis for geometry conceptual model
14:33:22 <jtandy> +1
14:33:25 <Linda> +1
14:33:26 <Payam> 0
14:33:31 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:33:31 <AndreaPerego> 0
14:33:41 <billroberts> 0 - sorry I don't know it well enough
14:33:41 <frans> I would not know, I would have to look at it better first
14:33:51 <ClausStadler> 0 - have to look at it first
14:34:00 <Linda> I see some homework coming up
14:34:41 <jtandy> proposed: new work item to assess whether ISO 19107 provides an exhaustive basis for geometry conceptual model and ISO 19111 for spatial reference systems
14:35:08 <jtandy> +1
14:35:11 <Payam> 0
14:35:14 <ScottSimmons> +1
14:35:22 <billroberts> +1
14:35:26 <frans> Does this include availabilty as a web ontology?
14:35:26 <Linda> +1
14:35:33 <AndreaPerego> +1, but we need to decide about which requirements it should be tested against.
14:35:40 <ClausStadler> +1
14:35:43 <Payam> jtandy: frans: not yet
14:35:46 <Linda> q+
14:35:48 <frans> +1
14:35:57 <Payam> ack Linda
14:36:57 <Payam> Linda: answers frans's question (Does this include availability as a web ontology?) - there seem to be some work related to this.
14:37:22 <Payam> s/some work  /some existing work
14:37:23 <jtandy> resolved: new work item to assess whether ISO 19107 provides an exhaustive basis for geometry conceptual model and ISO 19111 for spatial reference systems
14:37:53 <frans> We could collect thoughts and requirements on a wiki page
14:39:02 <frans> Making the model digestible could be done step by step
14:39:05 <Payam> SctottSimmons: we need to understand how to define something that is usable by a large community; we probably need to be less ambitious and find the key areas that we need to address;
14:39:27 <Payam> s/SctottSimmons /ScottSimmons
14:39:45 <jtandy> s/ScottSimmons/AndreaPerego/
14:40:03 <Payam> StottSimmons: thinks it is good to create a separate wiki page to add information realted to this topic
14:40:26 <Payam> s/realted /related
14:40:49 <phila> s/StottSimmons/AndreasPerego/
14:40:53 <Payam> s/SctottSimmons /AndreaPerego/
14:41:12 <Payam> sorry Andrea
14:41:21 <AndreaPerego> No problem :)
14:42:12 <Payam> jtandy: what should be the next step?
14:43:00 <Payam> frans: to collect different thoughts on a wiki page; with clearly defined actions; reviewing the ISO standards and geometry models that are in use
14:43:27 <jtandy> ACTION: frans to set up a wiki page and coordinate the collection of ideas about validity of ISO 19107 and ISO 19111 in meeting the needs of SDW - including non-geographical standards like SVG
14:43:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Set up a wiki page and coordinate the collection of ideas about validity of iso 19107 and iso 19111 in meeting the needs of sdw - including non-geographical standards like svg [on Frans Knibbe - due 2016-04-27].
14:43:40 <Payam> jtandy: asking frans to set up a wiki page
14:43:59 <AndreaPerego> Maybe we can also start by including the relevant BPs...
14:44:37 <Payam> Topic: Part 2
14:44:52 <Payam> Best Practice Flooding Scenario
14:45:01 <Payam> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Narrative
14:45:34 <Payam> we have tried to extend the narrative and link it to all the BPs
14:47:28 <jtandy> q+ to ask if best practices might occur more than once in the scenario
14:47:32 <jtandy> q?
14:47:42 <jtandy> ack joshlieberman
14:47:45 <jtandy> ack jtandy
14:47:45 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if best practices might occur more than once in the scenario
14:49:29 <phila> Payam: We tried to keep it concise. WE could write it from different perspectives
14:49:50 <phila> ... We wanted it to be a story that people could read and that wojuld link to the BPs as a narrative
14:50:05 <phila> ... COld be written from a developer's POV, an env Agency's POV etc.
14:50:10 <AndreaPerego> s/wojuld/would/
14:50:24 <AndreaPerego> s/COld/could/
14:50:36 <phila> Payam: An example, BP 6 and 7 highlight the narrative for different groups of people
14:51:22 <phila> jtandy: people who have not updated the narrative so far - are you able to understand it in sufficient detail in order to further develop examples of BP being followed?
14:51:31 <phila> ... Need input from people on the call.
14:51:43 <billroberts> seems clear to me
14:51:46 <phila> Payam: I think we may need a quick intro, or have people read it before
14:51:59 <phila> jtandy: If you haven't read it, you really should, please.
14:52:10 <AndreaPerego> +1
14:52:31 <phila> jtandy: What I'd like people to do... if you want to participate in this group and you can't follow the scenario, please say what is missing and what we need to add.
14:52:36 <phila> q+
14:52:50 <frans> q+
14:52:50 <phila> Payam: We don't want to make it too complex. We want a one page example that capturesd as muchy as we can
14:52:58 <phila> s/muchy/much/
14:53:15 <phila> q-
14:53:30 <jtandy> q?
14:53:35 <jtandy> ack frans
14:53:39 <phila> jtandy: We need different audiences to eb able to relate to the doc
14:53:53 <phila> frans: Do you accept that there could be BPs that don't play a role in the narrative?
14:54:01 <AndreaPerego> s/to eb able/to be able/
14:54:09 <Linda> q+
14:54:16 <Payam> +q Payam
14:54:21 <phila> jtandy: If we find that there are missing BPs, then I'd like to bend the narrative to make it fit. That might take us away fron reality a little but we need to harness them.
14:54:24 <Linda> q-
14:54:27 <jtandy> q?
14:54:32 <Payam> ack Payam
14:54:34 <phila> Payam: All the BPs are included in the scenario at the moment
14:54:43 <jtandy> q?
14:54:45 <billroberts> q+
14:54:46 <Linda> no
14:55:15 <billroberts> q-
14:55:20 <phila> jtandy: Can you, Payam, give us an overview of what you've been doing to map our flooding example onto your group's work on smart cities
14:55:37 <phila> Payam: It's about who is involved. Could be citizens, developers, historians
14:55:58 <phila> ... Then write from different perspectives, what they need, the right granularity, etc.
14:56:07 <phila> ... How can people react, they might publish on social media etc.
14:56:16 <phila> ... Linked to BPs on publishing data about each of these.
14:56:24 <phila> ... data should be usable for machines and humans
14:56:41 <phila> ... May be for actuation as well as reporting.
14:56:58 <phila> ... As we explained the storty we coujld see how different BPs come into play.
14:57:02 <phila> jtandy: Links?
14:57:14 <AndreaPerego> s/coujld/could/
14:57:21 <phila> Payam: This is a project funded by Innovate UK but there's nothing online about it
14:57:22 <jtandy> ACTION: Payam to share links to work on Smart Cities that is relevant to our flooding scenario
14:57:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Share links to work on smart cities that is relevant to our flooding scenario [on Payam Barnaghi - due 2016-04-27].
14:58:00 <phila> billroberts: To clarify - what help are you asking for around spelling out how a BP applies in Bart's narrative.
14:58:09 <phila> ... Do you want people to pick a BP and work through it?
14:58:40 <phila> jtandy: In my mind I would pick something ... take Payam's example of pumps and actuators, or water height sensor
14:59:16 <phila> ... That's a section in the narrative. I'd like people to be able to take a part of the story and write down examples of how you would go about implementing that particular activity.
14:59:31 <phila> ... So for a sensor you might want the OGC's sensor things API to publish data on the Web.
14:59:53 <phila> phila: W3C has a generic sensor API as well, hmm, wonder if they're compatible.
15:00:04 <phila> billroberts: Style guidelines?
15:00:39 <phila> jtandy: No style guidelines so far. I'll set up a wiki page that breaks the narrative into sections so we can put names next to them
15:00:59 <jtandy> ACTION: jtandy to break the narrative into discrete elements and create a wiki page of who is developing each part
15:00:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Break the narrative into discrete elements and create a wiki page of who is developing each part [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2016-04-27].
15:01:07 <ScottSimmons> sorry have to leave~
15:01:15 <phila> Topic: 3 May
15:01:43 <Payam> +1
15:01:46 <jtandy> +1
15:01:47 <billroberts> +1
15:01:50 <AndreaPerego> +1
15:01:52 <phila> jtandy: We'll try a virtual meeting - I want a bulk of a few hours when we can work as a group to push outsleves forward rather than just an hour every 2 weeks.
15:01:52 <frans> +0.5
15:02:07 <phila> q+
15:02:15 <jtandy> ack phila
15:02:24 <Payam> We can host
15:02:55 <jtandy> colocate for a the virtual meeting?
15:03:06 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
15:03:29 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye - good job, Jeremy!
15:03:38 <Payam> thanks, bye
15:03:41 <billroberts> bye
15:03:42 <frans> Thanks & bye
15:03:42 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has left #sdwbp
15:03:50 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
15:04:03 <phila> chair: Jeremy
15:04:21 <phila> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices Sub Group
15:04:25 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
15:04:32 <phila> regrets+ Ed
15:04:35 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
15:04:45 <phila> present+ phila
15:04:47 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
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