13:30:14 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:30:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/14-dap-irc 13:30:16 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:30:16 Zakim has joined #dap 13:30:18 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:30:18 ok, trackbot 13:30:19 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:30:19 Date: 14 April 2016 13:30:43 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Apr/0009.html 13:30:48 fjh has changed the topic to: dap agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Apr/0009.html 13:31:15 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:31:27 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:47:24 anssik has joined #dap 14:04:49 ScribeNick: dom 14:04:54 Present+ Tobie_Langel 14:05:00 Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements 14:05:05 Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements 14:05:07 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:05:10 fjh: bunch of news 14:05:10 Battery Status API published as a W3C Proposed Recommendation, http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/PR-battery-status-20160329/ 14:05:11 Sensor WDs published, thanks everyone: 14:05:12 Generic Sensor API : https://www.w3.org/TR/generic-sensor/ 14:05:13 Ambient Light Sensor: https://www.w3.org/TR/ambient-light/ 14:05:14 TPAC 2016, https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/09/tpac-2016-dates-and-location-announced/ 14:06:06 dom: media capture TF would like to use DAP meeting day at TPAC for discussions 14:06:24 dom: might be useful to have day of meetings around sensors, possibly joint meeting with other groups 14:06:42 dom: geolocation, and others 14:06:55 dom: need to give answer by tomorrow 14:07:00 Second Screen WG I'm chairing will meet Thu-Fri most likely 14:07:12 fjh: we probably should say yes, that we will have a meeting 14:07:28 ... I wouldn't need to chair the Media Capture TF 14:07:53 ... and the sensors part of the meeting might be chaired by Tobie or Dom 14:08:10 Tobie: we had an unofficial 1/2 day of meeting at last TPAC and it was useful 14:08:17 ... I think it will be even more useful this year 14:08:30 ... I'm sure that between Dom, Anssi and myself to organize this if needed 14:08:40 ... it's probably best if the editor doesn't chair 14:08:48 ... but I don't think how this could go wrong 14:09:07 ... it'd be ideal if Frederick can be there, but we should plan for it nonetheless 14:09:32 fjh: lets plan for Mon/Tue 14:09:48 I can also volunteer to chair if that does not clash with the Second Screen WG 14:09:48 fjh: not sure one day is enough for sensors 14:10:08 (then again, I'm one of the editors) 14:10:23 fjh: my concern is that we need enough time for sensors, could use two days for sensors and other DAP work 14:10:35 fjh: so one day might not be enough for DAP 14:10:58 fjh: need to check if Media Capture is ok with 1/2 day 14:12:12 dom: to clarify, we’ll ask for Mon/Tue for DAP, will do this 14:12:27 dom: next need to decide how much time to give Media Capture 14:12:57 fjh: need also Wed session for evangelizing and getting support 14:13:06 tobie: can also visit other groups on their time 14:13:18 dom: anssi and I might be involved in Media Capture TF 14:13:41 does Geolocation WG meet at TPAC? 14:13:43 action: dom to arrange DAP registration for TPAC Mon and Tue 14:13:43 Created ACTION-754 - Arrange dap registration for tpac mon and tue [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2016-04-21]. 14:13:53 anssik, I think they were leaning towards not 14:14:17 that is another group that should talk with DAS (new name!) 14:15:05 ACTION: Dom to register Device & Sensors WG to TPAC 14:15:05 Created ACTION-755 - Register device & sensors wg to tpac [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2016-04-21]. 14:15:17 Topic: Minutes approval 14:15:24 Approve minutes from 17 March 2016 14:15:24 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 17 March 2016 are approved, https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-dap-minutes.html 14:15:27 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 17 March 2016 are approved, https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-dap-minutes.html 14:15:44 Topic: Battery Status API 14:15:48 Battery Status API published as a W3C Proposed Recommendation, http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/PR-battery-status-20160329/ 14:15:56 fjh: an issue was raised on our battery API that is at PR 14:16:50 fjh: do we need to change due to the issue of browsing context, vs document vs window 14:17:08 fjh: aren’t there benefits for privacy etc for browsing context, e.g. per tab/origin etc 14:17:23 fjh: we need anssik on a call to discuss 14:17:27 dom: ditto 14:17:56 If you work for a W3C Member, please make sure your Advisory Committee Representative voices their support for the publication of the document (says Dom) 14:18:39 dom: no need to say anything on AC at this point, lower level for them, also need to determine if we have an issue or not 14:18:57 fjh: agreed, let’s try to have a call with anssik on the call to discuss 14:19:12 Topic: Media Capture and Streams 14:19:17 Call for Consensus (CfC) to transition “Media Capture and Streams” to Candidate Recommendation - deadline 17 April 2016 14:19:17 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Apr/0008.html 14:19:33 Topic: Charter Approved 14:19:47 fjh: thank you Dom for sending the diff to the charter 14:19:50 "Device and Sensors Working Group" charter approved, with some changes. One substantive change - new work requires formal incubation phase. 14:19:51 For detail on charter see Dom's message: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Mar/0112.html 14:19:52 Charter: https://www.w3.org/2016/03/device-sensors-wg-charter.html 14:19:53 Members need to rejoin: "Since the charter includes new deliverables, all the Working Group formal participants will have to re-join the group; there is 45 days grace period for people to rejoin the group during which they can continue their participation to calls and discussions." (Dom). Status? 14:19:54 Thanks to Anssi for updating home page. 14:20:15 https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/43696/join 14:20:28 fjh: I thought I was in the group already 14:20:33 dom: no, you need to rejoin 14:20:39 tobie: what about me? 14:20:47 dom: you are all set, Intel is already a member 14:22:16 dom: will send reminder for companies 14:22:48 dom: we have another month 14:23:58 dom: incubation item - new sensor work might require this - pressure, barometer 14:24:06 s/might/will/ 14:24:11 dom: can discuss details later 14:24:40 dom: incubation is only for new deliverables 14:24:51 dom: including new sensors 14:26:05 fjh: could think of higher level sensor 14:26:13 tobie: happy to publish CG draft 14:26:27 fjh: do we need to set up Community Group 14:26:34 dom: can write draft and bring to incubator group 14:26:50 Topic: Charter Milestone review 14:26:59 Note Q1 and Q2 2016 deliverables 14:26:59 https://www.w3.org/2016/03/device-sensors-wg-charter.html#deliverables 14:27:00 HTML Media Capture implementation status review. CR draft and approved test cases in place. 14:27:23 s/incubator/web incubator/ 14:28:17 fjh: we're in Q2 2016, so we already have a bit of a slip on our charter schedule 14:29:42 dom: not meeting milestones can have impact on charter extensions 14:30:18 fjh: we need to keep track on where we are 14:31:13 tobie: what's needed to go to CR? 14:31:25 fjh: go through a LC-like review and some implementations line-up 14:31:41 tobie: we have ambient light that should go to "intent to ship" soon 14:32:05 ... not sure what going to CR means for "generic sensor" in terms of implementations 14:32:42 ... having ambient light spec'd and implemented makes me comfortable for "push" sensors 14:32:55 ... would like to have the same for a "poll" sensor to be comfortable to that part of generic 14:33:44 ... I'm not entirely confident on that one; work on accelerometer and device orientation would help 14:34:27 ... I should have more details on my work plan soon 14:34:51 fjh: getting a first draft of device orientation would help gaining confidence on that part of generic sensor 14:34:57 tobie: getting a first draft should be fairly fast 14:35:30 fjh: we'll have to figure out if our CR schedule is pre or post TPAC 14:36:03 tobie: writing concrete specs on generic sensor should be fairly simple (once we have had the conversation with the TAG next week) 14:36:16 ... the next question is implementability of periodic sensor 14:36:52 ... I don't have implementors feedback on that yet, and it might have big implications on generic sensor 14:37:29 tobie: having more WD of concrete sensors will get internest 14:37:42 fjh: want to use TPAC to get interest and involvement 14:38:00 dom: use TPAC for wide review, effectively replaces LC 14:38:21 q? 14:39:35 fjh: so back to scheduling, we need to focus on the sensor stuff 14:39:50 ... the media capture work happens in the task force 14:40:28 fjh: what about Network Information API? 14:40:40 s/internest/interest/ 14:41:07 dom: not clear about additional implementations beyond initial ones, not clear whether to progress 14:41:14 fjh: we need to talk with stakeholders 14:41:31 Topic: Battery (revisited)_ 14:41:33 Topic: Battery issue 14:41:57 there's an issue https://github.com/w3c/battery/issues/2, and a proposed fix discussed in https://github.com/w3c/battery/pull/3 14:42:08 fjh: an issue was raised on where the promise is attached 14:42:31 anssik: I think we have a good proposal from Domenic; there is a slight confusion still between Boris and Domenic 14:42:59 Realm 14:43:34 ... there is a reference to Realms which is not part of HTML5 Rec 14:43:48 suggestion from dominic 14:43:52 Suggested: 14:43:52 Instead of each Document having a battery promise, make it each Navigator object. They are equivalent, but it will be easier to write the following spec text. 14:43:54 Make the following updates to the getBattery() method definition: 14:43:55 Please number the steps, instead of using bullets. 14:43:56 ... we would have an issue with regard to the normative dependency policies 14:43:57 Replace all references to "battery promise" with "this Navigator object's battery promise". 14:43:58 Replace step 2 with "Otherwise, set this Navigator object's battery promise to a newly created Promise, created in the Realm of this Navigator object." 14:43:58 Replace step 4 with "create a new BatteryManager object in the Realm of this Navigator object, and let battery be that object." 14:44:46 fjh: alreafdy have existing implementations against current spec 14:44:52 anssik: yes 14:45:29 https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#realm-execution-context 14:45:59 anssik: without this change, the spec is ambiguous on this aspect 14:46:24 ... there can be interop issues in nested browsing contexts (e.g. iframes) 14:46:46 tobie: can you change the spec to match without referring to realms? 14:47:50 fjh: I'm still not sure to understand if this is necessary to spec out 14:47:51 https://github.com/w3c/battery/issues/2#issue-147603649 14:48:10 anssik: domenic's test case illustrate the problem 14:49:21 ... in most use cases, it's probably not an issue, but it's an issue nevertheless 14:49:42 fjh: I'm trying to understand why would it matter to an app 14:50:26 anssik: in "normal" use, no issues 14:51:25 dom: can we refer to ECMAScript concept vs living standard 14:52:15 dom: is change from browing context to document enough, or is more needed? 14:52:29 anssik: makes it better, dominc’s changes makes it even more precise 14:53:26 dom: in PR, would need to go back to WD 14:53:37 dom: want best spec possible 14:53:58 fjh: agree, want to make sure we know what to leave as implementation details, v2 14:54:59 anssik: so make current version be for document not browsing context, make realm changes for v2, especially since still under disussion 14:55:04 ScribeNick: fjh 14:55:21 dom: also need to decide if full formal cycle for this change 14:55:42 anssiK; change aligns spec with implementations, does not break implementations 14:56:09 dom: if we agree on pull request 3, it is more a clarification than substantive change, will check on process 14:56:21 domenic's change baking in Realm https://github.com/w3c/battery/pull/3#issuecomment-209625181 14:56:28 s/change/change proposal/ 14:56:42 Topics: Sensors 14:56:50 tobie: working on test suites now 14:57:05 Generic Sensor and Ambient Light Sensor TAG reviews (Tobie) 14:57:05 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Apr/0006.html 14:57:31 “The Generic Sensor API is due to be discussed on the TAG's 2016-04-20 14:57:31 call." 14:57:35 https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/115 14:57:52 https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/110 14:58:37 tobie: got some feedback to clarify how sensor work, also need to work through permissioning 14:59:57 fjh: can defer privacy discussion, let it continue on list, Lucaz not on call 15:00:09 tobie: not surprised by new features exposing new fingerprinting and other issues 15:00:36 tobie: suggest strategies to encourage higher level APIs, incentives e.g . different permission models 15:02:43 Topic: Other Business 15:03:32 fjh: so we have plan for going forward with Battery - Anssi to make change of browsing context to document for PR, Dom to determine process for moving this change forward 15:03:59 fjh: Anssi to update editors draft for Dominic change, inform him, should be good way forward to ongoing changes, can consider when to have v2 15:04:28 fjh: dom to reserve Mon/Tue at TPAC for DAP, we need to determine how much for Media Capture Task Force (frederick) 15:04:51 fjh: Tobie and Anssi to look into reserving slot on TPAC Wed for sensors to get more involvement 15:04:59 fjh: Dom to remind on AC to join DAS 15:05:06 Topic: Adjourn 15:05:13 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:05:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:42:53 fjh_ has joined #dap 15:43:33 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:43:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh_ 15:47:46 fjh has left #dap 16:53:20 Zakim has left #dap 17:27:56 mats has joined #dap 18:32:15 fjh has joined #dap 19:00:25 fjh has joined #dap 19:55:50 fjh has joined #dap 20:35:00 fjh has joined #dap 21:21:13 mats has joined #dap 21:40:09 fjh has joined #dap