18:44:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:44:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/12-aapi-irc
18:44:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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18:44:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:44:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:44:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
18:44:47 <trackbot> Date: 12 April 2016
18:45:01 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 19-Apr-2016, 20:00 UTC)
18:45:08 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:45:25 <clown> agenda: this
18:45:37 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property for UIA - merged, final review.
18:45:47 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 -- final review.
18:45:57 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for role="application", new AXWebApplication subrole replaces AXLandmarkApplication.
18:46:04 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property -- review.
18:46:10 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1668 (Joseph) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.
18:46:17 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1686/ACTION-1692/ACTION-1693: (Joanie/All): Propose ATK/AT-SPI2 and MSAA+IA2 mappings for aria-errormessage.
18:46:25 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2046 (Joseph/Joanie) Remove mappings for role="text".
18:46:31 <clown> agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1373)
18:46:38 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:46:43 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:46:49 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
18:46:53 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:47:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/12-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:56:15 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
18:56:19 <joanie> scribe: joanie
18:58:12 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:01:36 <joanie> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:02:30 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:02:53 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:05:38 <Rich> Rich has joined #aapi
19:06:44 <Rich> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:06:54 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:07:40 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:07:40 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property for UIA - merged, final review." taken up [from clown]
19:07:47 <clown> action-2008?
19:07:47 <trackbot> action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:07:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
19:09:01 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:09:14 <joanie> JS: Cynthia provided me with text for the description property.
19:09:23 <joanie> JS: We discussed this without her last week.
19:09:23 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
19:09:38 <joanie> JS: I would like to get her confirmation that the text at the above URL is correct.
19:10:06 <joanie> CS: The first one looks fine.
19:10:12 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions
19:10:15 <joanie> JS: The next one as the above URL.
19:10:22 <joanie> JS: That one may have a mistake in it.
19:10:32 <joanie> JS: The fourth paragraph (Joseph reads)
19:10:47 <joanie> CS: It should be UIA and not MSAA.
19:11:12 <joanie> CS: I was doing a bunch of editing at the same time. I must have missed this one.
19:11:33 <joanie> JS: I will fix that MSAA instance.
19:11:38 <joanie> JS: Can we close this action?
19:11:40 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:12:03 <clown> issue-540?
19:12:03 <trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to describe the API differences -- open
19:12:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/540
19:12:20 <joanie> JS: There are still a few things open with issue-540.
19:12:35 <joanie> Topic: It's Rich's Birthday
19:12:41 <joanie> Group says happy birthday!
19:12:45 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:12:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 -- final review." taken up [from
19:12:48 <Zakim> ... clown]
19:12:51 <clown> action-2012?
19:12:51 <trackbot> action-2012 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UIA mapping for role="region" (Github issue #243) -- due 2016-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:12:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2012
19:13:13 <joanie> JS: Again, it's a PR from Cynthia.
19:13:18 <joanie> JS: I've merged it in.
19:13:23 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
19:13:34 <joanie> JS: The result is at the above URL.
19:13:39 <joanie> JS: Is that right?
19:13:45 <joanie> JS: There are four bullets there.
19:13:48 <joanie> CS: That is correct.
19:14:09 <joanie> JS: I'm going to close action-2012 then.
19:14:21 <clown> ACTION-2013
19:14:21 <trackbot> ACTION-2013 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UIA mapping for role=navigation (GIthub issue #242) -- due 2016-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:14:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2013
19:14:25 <joanie> JS: There is another one, action-2013.
19:14:30 <joanie> JS: Role navigation in this case.
19:14:39 <joanie> JS: Another pull request from Cynthia.
19:14:39 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-navigation
19:14:45 <joanie> JS: It's at the above URL.
19:14:54 <joanie> JS: I'll let Cynthia look it over.
19:15:02 <joanie> CS: That's correct.
19:15:08 <joanie> JS: Then I'm closing this one too.
19:15:16 <joanie> CS: There are a bunch of these, right?
19:15:18 <joanie> JS: Yes.
19:15:27 <joanie> JS: That might be it for now, though.
19:15:30 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:15:30 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-2041 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for role="application", new AXWebApplication subrole replaces AXLandmarkApplication." taken up [from clown]
19:15:36 <clown> action-2041?
19:15:36 <trackbot> action-2041 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to AXAPI: New subrole for role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due 2016-03-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:15:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
19:15:50 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
19:15:52 <joanie> JS: We finally have the new mapping for role="application" on AXAPI.
19:18:48 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
19:18:48 <joanie> JD: That mapping looks correct to me, based on what I committed to WebKit. :)
19:19:08 <joanie> RS: Looks fine to me.
19:19:15 <joanie> JS: I can close this one too then.
19:19:32 <joanie> Zakim, next item.
19:19:32 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property -- review." taken up [from clown]
19:19:40 <clown> action-1541?
19:19:40 <trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2016-02-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:19:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
19:19:42 <joanie> JS: This one is going to take a little more work.
19:19:51 <joanie> JS: We have something for mappings for aria-modal in AXAPI.
19:20:00 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue
19:20:04 <joanie> JS: First, you'll want to look at the above.
19:20:10 <joanie> JS: That is when aria-modal is true.
19:20:33 <joanie> JS: What you do with AXAPI is prune the accessibility tree of the background content.
19:23:31 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalFalse
19:23:49 <joanie> RS: Is that not expensive to do?
19:24:12 <joanie> JS: And the next URL has the mapping for aria-modal with a value of false.
19:24:53 <joanie> RS: We're going to do automated testing. What is the impact?
19:25:07 <joanie> RS: We'll have to have elements outside of the dialog.
19:25:31 <joanie> CS: Yes, but I think we can manage this by ascending the accessibility tree and see if the dialog is the top of the tree.
19:25:45 <joanie> JS: You'll notice that IA2 sets or clears a state.
19:27:26 <joanie> JS: Ditto for ATK/AT-SPI2.
19:27:44 <joanie> JS: So on this action... When I was adding it, I noticed the other platforms are a state change.
19:27:50 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-modal
19:27:55 <joanie> JS: But AXAPI is changing the contents of the tree.
19:28:04 <joanie> JS: Therefore I added text at the above URL.
19:28:21 <joanie> JS: And I need the platform experts to confirm what I put there makes sense.
19:28:33 <joanie> RS: You do not normally see state changes for modal; it's a property.
19:28:48 <joanie> RS: If it's modal, you're going to have the state change before it appears.
19:28:53 <joanie> RS: I don't see it happening.
19:29:04 <joanie> RS: Do you really want to test that?
19:29:14 <joanie> CS: Changing the value of the modal state?
19:29:18 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:29:29 <joanie> RS: You'll think it will change while it's running?
19:29:36 <joanie> CS: No. Not changing at runtime.
19:29:55 <joanie> CS: I would assume people would insert the dialog into the DOM with the modal property/state already on it.
19:30:16 <joanie> CS: If there's some other way people are doing it.... Like positioning it off screen (which would be really bad).
19:30:26 <joanie> JS: I have two people saying get rid of this event table.
19:30:31 <joanie> JS: And I'm happy to do so.
19:30:47 <joanie> RS: Would you change the state of readonly or required?
19:30:58 <joanie> CS: The readonly state could change.
19:31:14 <joanie> CS: I can see that you might need events if there's initialization happening.
19:31:24 <joanie> CS: If they're building the DOM in script.
19:31:34 <joanie> CS: But changing them in response to user action seems unlikely.
19:31:45 <joanie> RS: I'm just trying to keep the testing focused.
19:31:48 <clown> s/get rid of this event table/get ride of this event table for aria-modal/
19:31:58 <joanie> CS: But we're going to automate the testing.
19:32:02 <clown> s/get ride of this event table for aria-modal/get rid of this event table for aria-modal
19:32:28 <joanie> JS: Ok, I will remove the aria-modal event table.
19:32:38 <joanie> JS: After I do that, I can close action-1541.
19:32:59 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:32:59 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1668 (Joseph) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2." taken up [from clown]
19:33:07 <clown> action-1668?
19:33:07 <trackbot> action-1668 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
19:33:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
19:33:10 <joanie> JS: I almost got this done today.
19:33:19 <joanie> JS: It involves using this new role from IA2.
19:33:25 <joanie> JS: I'm assuming we're going to get it.
19:33:36 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
19:33:43 <joanie> JS: Here's (above is) region.
19:34:08 <joanie> JS: If you look at the ATK/AT-SPI mapping, it has ROLE_LANDMARK and xml-roles:region as an object attribute.
19:34:17 <joanie> JS: I'm assuming IA2 will be done the same way.
19:34:19 <joanie> RS: Yes.
19:34:36 <joanie> JS: Since there are a bunch, I didn't want to make the change and have it be wrong.
19:34:43 <joanie> JS: Do I need to wait for Alex to confirm.
19:34:52 <joanie> RS: I would go ahead and do it.
19:35:25 <joanie> RS: This should save some time: You only look at the xml-roles if it's a landmark.
19:35:33 <joanie> JS: That's what Joanie has been saying.
19:36:03 <joanie> RS: On iOS, you navigate to landmarks with VoiceOver.
19:36:09 <joanie> RS: I think it's the same on Android.
19:36:26 <joanie> RS: I can see the value of going to navigation sections, as it saves you time.
19:36:38 <joanie> JS: I will then make these changes and bring them up for review next time.
19:37:12 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:37:12 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1686/ACTION-1692/ACTION-1693: (Joanie/All): Propose ATK/AT-SPI2 and MSAA+IA2 mappings for aria-errormessage." taken up [from clown]
19:37:25 <clown> action-1686?
19:37:25 <trackbot> action-1686 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to aapis -- due 2015-07-23 -- OPEN
19:37:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1686
19:37:33 <clown> action-1692?
19:37:33 <trackbot> action-1692 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:37:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1692
19:37:47 <clown> action-1693?
19:37:47 <trackbot> action-1693 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose MSAA+IA2 mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:37:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1693
19:38:17 <joanie> JS: Joanie and I were talking about this yesterday.
19:38:32 <joanie> RS: I saw a thread about this.
19:38:41 <joanie> JS: This resulted from our discussion.
19:38:57 <joanie> JS: There was the proposal for relation types being added.
19:39:09 <joanie> JS: Joanie suggested it.
19:39:33 <joanie> JS: And there were some concerns raised.
19:39:48 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0091.html
19:39:54 <joanie> JS: The new proposal is above.
19:40:10 <joanie> JS: (Reads)
19:40:23 <clown> ERROR_MESSAGE/ERROR_SOURCE
19:40:45 <joanie> RS: I'm going to give this a +1 as it's clean.
19:40:53 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0098.html
19:41:05 <joanie> JS: Jason said he was comfortable with the proposal.
19:41:13 <joanie> JS: Then James responded (URL above)
19:41:22 <joanie> JS: (Reads from James' response)
19:41:54 <joanie> JS: So he didn't completely shoot it down.
19:42:35 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0099.html
19:43:37 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0101.html  <- Joanie's reply to Jamie
19:43:47 <joanie> JS: Joanie replied (above URL)
19:44:00 <joanie> JS: (Reads)
19:45:40 <clown> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-February/002019.html
19:46:18 <clown> If you really do want errormessage to be treated as an entirely separate thing, then I have to change my position on this: we need a new relation and new events. If it's really such a new and separate thing, we don't have to worry about existing AT not getting the benefit.
19:49:46 <joanie> JS: Jamie ends email with that he's happy with the names proposed.
19:49:59 <joanie> JS: He's complaining about the performance issue.
19:50:10 <joanie> RS: It is another API addition, but we're going to have that anyway.
19:50:51 <joanie> RS: It is different from description, because with description you'd have to deal with the name calculation.
19:51:00 <joanie> JS: No you wouldn't, because it's a different property.
19:52:02 <joanie> JS: And I think the spec already has text that makes it clear that the errormessage value is not part of the text alternative calculation.
19:52:08 <joanie> RS: Yes, I wrote it.
19:52:24 <joanie> JS: Do we just forge ahead and proceed with these new relationships?
19:52:34 <joanie> CS: It's just a working draft, so we could.
19:52:45 <joanie> JS: The only one set is UIA, which is controller-for.
19:52:51 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaErrorMessage
19:52:59 <joanie> CS: Right, and that doesn't mean we won't do something different down the road.
19:53:10 <joanie> JS: We have nothing for AXAPI either.
19:53:34 <joanie> CS: If it requires new accessibility API, it's less likely to get implementations.
19:53:49 <joanie> JS: So you want ARIA 1.1 in CR or PR by June, Rich?
19:54:05 <joanie> RS: 1.1 should be feature complete in June.
19:54:19 <joanie> JS: If we go with Joanie's latest proposal (the new relations), they won't exist.
19:54:25 <joanie> RS: So they have to be added.
19:54:32 <joanie> JS: How long do you think that will take?
19:54:46 <joanie> RS: Looking at the specs, we're not talking a lot of work.
19:54:52 <joanie> JS: It's just an enum.
19:55:00 <joanie> RS: And a description.
19:55:12 <joanie> RS: I'd be happy to write it in there, if that's what it takes.
19:55:51 <joanie> JS: But that's what Cynthia is saying: New API takes longer.
19:56:06 <joanie> RS: You have to for ROLE_LANDMARK (in IA2).
19:56:13 <Rich> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/group__grp_relations.html
19:56:25 <joanie> CS: Introducing something now which requires API changes seem riskier than things introduced last year.
19:56:36 <joanie> RS: I don't think it's a big deal for IA2.
19:57:32 <Rich> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_role_8idl.html#ae37ff81431ee3762a5d41a2cb909108d
20:03:05 <joanie> JS: Pending Jamie's reply, I'll add the mappings.
20:03:54 <joanie> JD: And pending that confirmation, I'll add the new relations to ATK, AT-SPI2, and pyatspi.
20:04:23 <joanie> action: Joanie to add new API to ATK, AT-SPI2, and pyatspi for errormessage mappings.
20:04:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2050 - Add new api to atk, at-spi2, and pyatspi for errormessage mappings. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-04-19].
20:04:54 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:04:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/12-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:05:20 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:05:20 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
20:05:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:05:34 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:05:42 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop