12:59:01 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:59:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-irc 13:00:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:00:31 zakim, who is here? 13:00:31 Present: PWinstanley 13:00:33 On IRC I see RRSAgent, BernadetteLoscio, PWinstanley, newton, yaso, phila, Zakim, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:00:39 present+ hadleybeeman 13:00:41 present+ newton 13:00:43 annette_g has joined #dwbp 13:00:52 present+ BernadetteLoscio 13:01:21 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160408 13:01:29 chair: Hadley 13:01:48 regrets+ Ghislain 13:01:55 Caroline has joined #DWBP 13:01:57 regrets+ Dee 13:02:27 Present+ Caroline 13:03:32 yaso1 has joined #dwbp 13:04:01 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP 13:04:02 present+ phila 13:04:33 present+ yaso 13:05:03 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160408 13:05:32 ericstephan has joined #dwbp 13:05:38 present+ riccardoAlbertoni 13:05:43 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:05:43 scribe: annette_g 13:05:49 present+ annette_g 13:05:54 https://www.w3.org/2016/04/01-dwbp-minutes 13:05:55 sorry time got away from me, calling in shortly 13:06:00 PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes. 13:06:03 +1 13:06:04 +1 13:06:09 +1 13:06:19 +1 13:06:37 +1, given that Phil fixes the date 13:06:39 +1 13:06:42 present+ antoine 13:06:55 +1 13:07:11 _1 13:07:13 RESOLVED: accept last week's minutes. 13:07:14 +1 13:07:20 +1 13:07:57 hadleybeeman: 30 seconds of update on the BP doc 13:08:07 BernadetteLoscio: it's almost ready! 13:08:08 Topic: BP doc 13:08:15 -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html Ed Draft of BP 13:08:16 q+ 13:08:36 BernadetteLoscio: we're finishing some more updates, can finish during the day today and freeze at the end of today 13:08:41 present+ ericstephan 13:08:49 hadleybeeman: please send a message out when it's time to start reviewing 13:08:56 laufer has joined #dwbp 13:09:02 q+ to ask about native speaker bits 13:09:03 BernadetteLoscio: we want comments during the week. We'll wait to update the doc. 13:09:20 present+ laufer 13:09:35 BernadetteLoscio: also, we need some help 13:10:11 BernadetteLoscio: with examples, the structural metadata example in particular. Can Phil help? 13:10:33 phila: I'll ask people who are more connected with the csv work, but I will try. 13:10:47 yes Gregg would be great 13:10:48 BernadetteLoscio: If it's not possible, we'll freeze like this. 13:10:54 phila: I'll ask Greg Kellogg 13:11:06 phila: or someone from the CSV group 13:11:17 BernadetteLoscio: is it okay to freeze later today? 13:11:20 hadleybeeman: yes 13:11:45 BernadetteLoscio: we made some editorial changes on intended outcomes of some best practices, so I want feedback about that. 13:12:10 BernadetteLoscio: we are trying to have a standard way of presenting the outcomes. So if something isn't correct, please tell us 13:12:17 SumitPurohit has joined #DWBP 13:12:35 q+ 13:12:41 ack p 13:12:41 phila, you wanted to ask about native speaker bits 13:12:45 ack pw 13:13:19 PWinstanley: had a question about policy of content. Is it a good idea to link to live example? One example is the API stuff. 13:13:33 hadleybeeman: we should copy stuff into our doc if we can 13:14:01 PWinstanley: would like to change the API documentation 13:14:02 present+ SumitPurohit 13:14:04 q+ 13:14:14 We could find a Citation to a paper written on the Flood project 13:14:30 q- 13:14:43 phila: I want to do a native speaker review on the doc 13:15:00 phila: is it okay to do that while it's frozen? 13:15:21 torking -1 13:15:49 hadleybeeman: my inclination is to do it in parallel but add them at the end 13:16:03 s/at the end/at the end with all other changes 13:16:09 s/tork/fork/ 13:16:10 BernadetteLoscio: the editors think it's okay, Phil can choose 13:16:13 q+ 13:16:28 Is this editorial "fracking"? ;-) 13:16:42 phila: I wouldn't do a merge 13:16:55 hadleybeeman: it sounds to me like that should go with the other changes 13:17:12 zakim, close the queue 13:17:12 ok, hadleybeeman, the speaker queue is closed 13:17:17 q- 13:17:28 sorry its something being done in the US where people search for oil underground and create havoc for those living above ground 13:17:30 ack newton 13:17:43 annette_g: my experience as an editor screams "don't fork it" 13:17:59 newton: would someone help with validating the RDF in the doc? 13:18:08 phila: I'll do that as part of my review 13:18:33 thanks!! 13:18:38 hadleybeeman: congrats to the editors for doing a fantastic job! 13:18:40 Zakim, open the queue 13:18:40 ok, hadleybeeman, the speaker queue is open 13:18:41 PROPOSED: Vote of thanks to the BP doc editors for doing so much work 13:18:42 to the editor of bp 13:18:42 +1 13:18:44 +1 13:18:49 +1 13:18:49 ++++1 13:19:00 topic: Data Quality vocab 13:19:01 :-) 13:19:03 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html 13:19:05 RESOLUTION: Vote of thanks to the BP doc editors for doing so much work 13:19:07 :) 13:20:57 riccardoAlbertoni: we've had some great input, but still have to do some work. Given that the BP doc is where it is, we're thinking about how to schedule the DQV. we could consider another round of feedback or try to take advantage of the 3 weeks in which we're waiting for comments on the BP doc. 13:21:59 riccardoAlbertoni: I'd like to hear the opinion of the group. From the point of view of transparency, adding a new working draft is a good option, but I'm worried that if we add new comments that will distract us from ongoing edits. 13:22:26 @hadleybeeman help never hurts, but yes 13:23:02 riccardoAlbertoni: I'd like to know the group's preference. 13:23:36 antoine: I think I"m okay getting feedback. We're already aiming in that direction. 13:23:38 q+ to ask about implementations 13:23:50 q+ to be the ex-advertising bloke 13:24:03 riccardoAlbertoni: but should we do that with a new draft or not? 13:24:07 ack phila 13:24:07 phila, you wanted to be the ex-advertising bloke 13:24:42 phila: we're heading towards a date when we'll be saying the BP doc is done unless you think otherwise (last call). 13:25:00 and in conclusion e=mc squared.. 13:25:17 phila: it's a nice PR message 13:25:22 I'm saying we should get feedback on all docs together 13:25:25 :-) 13:25:45 q? 13:25:47 q+ 13:25:49 ack h 13:25:49 hadleybeeman, you wanted to ask about implementations 13:26:53 +1 hadleybeeman 13:26:55 hadleybeeman: the vocabs are not rec track, but we do get a lot of credibility by demonstrating that it's not stuff we just made up by ourselves. It would be good for the vocabs to go out to the general public and help us build up our documentation to justify the decisions we're making. 13:27:04 ack eric 13:27:58 ericstephan: I understand the need to say we've completed these activities, but the data modeler in me says that vocabs will continue to change because they always do. How do we deal with that in the future? 13:28:02 oh no 13:29:01 phila: one the WG is closed, the team is responsible for maintenance. 13:29:16 nice 13:29:43 regarding content negociation by profile 13:29:44 phila: the next working group will be doing an update of DCAT, will look at content negotiation by profile, could potentially also come back to the DQV and DUV to put them on the rec track.. 13:30:02 great :) 13:30:30 q+ 13:30:33 hadleybeeman: there's a certain amount of stability that we need to emphasis by completing a version of this (or anything). Industry or developers need to be able to focus on something stable for a length of time. 13:30:43 ack e 13:31:39 ericstephan: one of the things we found in the DUV is that there are holes in DCAT, so I"m very excited about the revision of DCAT. The DUV could in some ways update based on what DCAT does. 13:32:08 q+ 13:32:16 ack antoine 13:32:22 hadleybeeman: back to riccardoAlbertoni's question. Should they get feedback in parallel with the BP doc or use the time to write? 13:32:40 riccardoAlbertoni: would the doc continue to be a public working draft? 13:32:49 hadleybeeman: yes, until it becomes a note 13:32:56 q+ 13:33:23 antoine: I'm leaning toward making a public working draft 13:33:50 riccardoAlbertoni: that means we have to finish up some things. Is that okay for you, antoine? 13:34:10 antoine: we can put in some notes marking things as unfinished and asking for feedback 13:34:25 ack r 13:34:41 hadleybeeman: in order to publish next week, we still need to get the working group to vote, which means we have to be okay that it's not finishted. 13:35:09 PWinstanley has joined #dwbp 13:35:18 present+ PWinstanley 13:35:21 Yes, there is more time for changes for the vocabs than for the BP doc 13:35:22 hadleybeeman: I don't want people to be saying we should not publish because they still want to make changes. there will still be plenty of time for changes afterward. 13:35:38 … are you guys okay with that 13:35:41 antoine: yes 13:35:54 hadleybeeman: DUV update? 13:35:59 Topic: DUV 13:35:59 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html 13:36:56 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_usage_schedule 13:37:31 ericstephan: the DUV right now has been making some slight changes in some of the examples (more elaborate, aligned with the bus timetable example), we tried to link in from the vocabulary overview section. We're trying to put things into some sort of a final state. There was a request for a schedule. 13:38:02 https://www.force11.org/meetings/force2016 13:38:37 ericstephan: BernadetteLoscio provided some editorial changes, so we pushed things out to April 10. Also coming up this week is that I'm going to be going to a Force 11 conference where we'll present a poster on the DUV. We hope to get community feedback there. 13:38:41 q+ 13:38:47 ericstephan: any questions? 13:38:50 ack ph 13:39:34 phila: thank you eric for getting into the Force11 event. Have you created the poster, can we get some images of it and you in Portland? 13:39:44 ericstephan: yes, I'll be happy to do that 13:40:18 ericstephan: I was asked to participate in a debate about good open standards practices. I want to refer to our best practices doc. 13:41:04 ericstephan: I've reached out to some communities about how you measure citations. If you reference a paper, what is the value of that? There should be some interesting nuances in data usage that I can come back with. 13:41:16 Thank you Eric 13:41:20 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html#conclusion 13:41:48 ericstephan: one last thing: this may be a bit controversial, I put a conclusion in. It brings up future work. I don't know if this is protocol. 13:42:27 q+ to talk about [vocab-dcat] and normative/nn in vocabs 13:42:30 ericstephan: I don't know what's normal for that, but these are our desires for where this work could go. 13:42:33 ack phila 13:42:33 phila, you wanted to talk about [vocab-dcat] and normative/nn in vocabs 13:43:00 I am all ears 13:43:02 phila: It's difficult. 13:44:14 phila: I struggle with putting this in a document like this. I think this belongs more in a blog post or group page. I'll think about it some more. I recognize that that's how it's done when you publish scientific research. 13:44:28 ericstephan: I love the idea of if it's on our web site. 13:44:51 understood :-) 13:44:51 phila: we have to think about what the frozen group web page looks like when we finish up. 13:45:16 interesting, ok no normative 13:45:20 phila: becaues it's a note, nothing is normative, so it's not appropriate to talk about normative /non-normative 13:45:37 thank you phila! 13:45:42 I believe the reference for DCAT is vocab-dcat 13:46:11 thank you hadleybeeman! 13:46:16 hadleybeeman: it's really useful to be able to go back and see what we wanted to do next, so it will be good to capture that somewhere useful. 13:46:20 q? 13:46:26 q+ 13:46:36 ack eric 13:46:37 hadleybeeman: let's look at actions 13:47:20 We have a process for translations 13:47:51 Labels etc in the RDF file can be added reaily enough 13:47:52 ericstephan: there is one thing in the schedule I want to mention. Those of us a the national labs have a lot of connection to people who speak different languages. we'd like to get as many different languages into the DUV as possile. Japanese, mandarin, russian, spanish, portuguese, all would be good to cover. 13:49:15 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/ 13:49:29 phila: docs in /tr space link to translations. we normally run things past a translator person. DCAT has labels in a bunch of languages all in one document, which is pure pornography if you're a UTF person. 13:49:39 action-208? 13:49:39 action-208 -- Antoine Isaac to Contact oa wg to see whether they would consider adding dqv motivation -- due 2016-04-01 -- OPEN 13:49:39 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/208 13:49:49 hadleybeeman: is that still open? 13:49:56 antoine: yes, that continues 13:50:05 action-210 13:50:05 action-210 -- Eric Stephan to Investigate the relationship between dqv and duv wrt citations that can be considered as a quality annotation -- due 2016-04-04 -- OPEN 13:50:05 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/210 13:50:07 action-210? 13:50:07 action-210 -- Eric Stephan to Investigate the relationship between dqv and duv wrt citations that can be considered as a quality annotation -- due 2016-04-04 -- OPEN 13:50:07 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/210 13:50:21 hadleybeeman: is that still open, Eric? 13:50:24 action-226 13:50:24 action-226 -- Newton Calegari to To move the indexes and keep the BP Summary at the top of the doc -- due 2016-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW 13:50:24 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/226 13:50:27 ericstephan: yes 13:50:46 hadleybeeman: newton, what's the status? 13:51:02 newton: we can close this one 13:51:05 close action-226 13:51:05 Closed action-226. 13:51:31 phila: done! 13:51:39 action-227? 13:51:39 action-227 -- Antoine Isaac to Work with eric s on writing section on evolution of duv wrt reuse of namespaces etc. -- due 2016-04-01 -- OPEN 13:51:39 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/227 13:52:07 hadleybeeman: is it open still? 13:52:11 antoine: yes 13:52:15 action-229 13:52:15 action-229 -- Phil Archer to Send bp editors implementation-questionaire template -- due 2016-03-15 -- OPEN 13:52:15 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/229 13:52:33 phila: that has come screaming up my todo list 13:52:35 phila: Expect it next week 13:52:53 action-230? 13:52:53 action-230 -- Caroline Burle to Create process for gathering evidence of implementations, e.g. wiki, google form -- due 2016-03-15 -- OPEN 13:52:53 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/230 13:53:14 Caroline: this is something we discussed in zagreb, we can close it 13:53:31 action-231? 13:53:31 action-231 -- Annette Greiner to Talk to eric wilde about open comments and reach resolution -- due 2016-02-19 -- OPEN 13:53:31 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/231 13:53:48 annette_g: I spoke to him. We weren't able to resolve it. He had concerns we hadn't addressed. 13:53:51 phila has joined #dwbp 13:54:07 ...We have addressed it since then. There have been several attempts to get his response, but he has hasn't replied. 13:54:59 phila: he responded today 13:55:00 q+ to askt the group to hepl with this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n6tOphCLXLrzHrdyRUHVgrgx1YARdauBQBy9jSJXgDQ/edit#gid=0 13:55:09 I just forwarded Erik's mail to the list in case it didn't make it 13:55:11 action-232? 13:55:11 action-232 -- Antoine Isaac to Look into reference to ogc in http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadatastandardized (raised during joint call with sdw) -- due 2016-02-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 13:55:11 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/232 13:55:13 hadleybeeman: sounds like that's still open 13:55:43 antoine: I think that's been sent to SDW, and I haven't heard anything, so I think we can close it. 13:55:51 hadleybeeman: should we follow up with them? 13:56:06 antoine: if someone else wants to do that, they can do that 13:56:20 s/hepl/help 13:56:20 antoine: if there's a new version, hopefully they will get in touch. 13:56:26 +1 to hadleybeeman 13:56:31 hadleybeeman: we should ask them to make sure they do review it. 13:56:38 action-233 13:56:38 action-233 -- Newton Calegari to Check if the turtle and rdfa examples are validated -- due 2016-04-01 -- OPEN 13:56:39 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/233 13:56:42 close action-237 13:56:42 Closed action-237. 13:56:52 hadleybeeman: you were asking for help on that 13:57:10 See previous about getting SDW review 13:57:11 q+ 13:57:22 I don't think it's needed as SDW is watching us anywat 13:57:24 I think so! 13:57:31 q- 13:57:42 We had a lot of discussions about this 13:57:51 yes, I agree! 13:58:18 action-239 13:58:18 action-239 -- Peter Winstanley to Check on using an example about real-time data for bp23 -- due 2016-03-25 -- OPEN 13:58:18 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/239 13:58:40 close action-232 13:58:40 Closed action-232. 13:58:41 Eric sent a first version and we included in the doc! 13:58:45 PWinstanley: that's what eric and I were working on just recently, we're likely to have something very soon 13:58:45 action-241 13:58:45 action-241 -- Hadley Beeman to Review bp 22 -- due 2016-03-18 -- OPEN 13:58:45 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/241 13:58:53 hadleybeeman: Phil and I did that last week 13:58:54 close action-241 13:58:54 Closed action-241. 13:59:00 action-242 13:59:00 action-242 -- Newton Calegari to Follow up on issue 220 -- due 2016-03-18 -- OPEN 13:59:00 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/242 13:59:05 newton: we can close that 13:59:09 action-243 13:59:09 action-243 -- Caroline Burle to Arrange redseign of the challenges diagram -- due 2016-03-21 -- OPEN 13:59:09 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/243 13:59:16 close action-242 13:59:16 Closed action-242. 13:59:22 Caroline: it's still open because we need help with it 13:59:27 phila: I think that's on my plate 13:59:31 hadleybeeman: what do you need? 13:59:34 SVG 13:59:46 yes! SVG :) 13:59:53 I like playing with SVG :-) 14:00:01 I can help, depending on the schedule 14:00:06 I like svg too 14:00:10 Caroline: we discussed in zagreb, phila said he might help us, but he already has this huge job of the native speaker review. 14:00:25 hadleybeeman: phila, I can help with the native speaker review 14:00:32 PWinstanley: I can help with it too 14:00:37 Caroline: you guys rock 14:00:54 thank you! :) 14:01:01 hadleybeeman: let's have PWinstanley look at both of our sections 14:01:05 close action-243 14:01:05 Closed action-243. 14:01:14 action: phila to redo the challenges diagram 14:01:16 Created ACTION-272 - Redo the challenges diagram [on Phil Archer - due 2016-04-15]. 14:01:20 action-244 14:01:20 action-244 -- Newton Calegari to Remove the 2nd line of test section and rewrite the intended outcome of the bp2 provide descriptive metadata -- due 2016-03-21 -- OPEN 14:01:20 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/244 14:01:23 action-244? 14:01:23 action-244 -- Newton Calegari to Remove the 2nd line of test section and rewrite the intended outcome of the bp2 provide descriptive metadata -- due 2016-03-21 -- OPEN 14:01:23 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/244 14:01:35 newton: we can close this 14:01:40 close action-244 14:01:40 Closed action-244. 14:01:57 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:01:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-minutes.html phila 14:02:10 thanks all ... 14:02:11 bye all... nice wkd... 14:02:12 thank you!! 14:02:12 Will the phone line be open for a few minutes? 14:02:13 bye 14:02:19 Bye! 14:02:23 hadleybeeman: we should close the call at this point. Eveyrbody's homework is to review the BP doc. 14:02:35 Thanks... 14:02:55 Next week: Vote to publish new draft of BP doc and DQV. 14:20:22 https://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-primer-20130430/#derivation-and-revision-1 14:36:25 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/252 14:49:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HATEOAS 15:12:09 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:12:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-minutes.html phila 15:12:38 Meeting: DWBP Weekly 15:12:45 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:12:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-minutes.html phila 15:21:10 zakim, bye 15:21:10 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been PWinstanley, hadleybeeman, newton, BernadetteLoscio, Caroline, phila, yaso, riccardoAlbertoni, annette_g, antoine, ericstephan, 15:21:10 Zakim has left #dwbp 15:21:13 ... laufer, SumitPurohit, +++1 15:21:21 RRSAgent, bye 15:21:21 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-actions.rdf : 15:21:21 ACTION: phila to redo the challenges diagram [1] 15:21:21 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/08-dwbp-irc#T14-01-14