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13:02:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
13:02:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:02:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:02:38 <trackbot> Date: 06 April 2016
13:02:45 <billroberts> ah hi Phil - we're stuck with the webex
13:03:03 <billroberts> being asked for MIT certificate
13:03:38 <billroberts> will try, 2 secs
13:03:49 <phila_mtg> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:04:02 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
13:04:07 <phila_mtg> zakim, code?
13:04:07 <Zakim> I have been told this is SDW
13:04:31 <phila_mtg> zakim, this is SDW Weekly https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4ecb967bb70c02dedc9eb66013281084, Access code 642 889 345, password sdw
13:04:31 <Zakim> got it, phila_mtg
13:04:35 <kerry> present+ Kerry
13:04:38 <billroberts> yes, success - many thanks Phil
13:04:39 <Maik> present+ Maik
13:04:42 <phila_mtg> zakim, save this description
13:04:42 <Zakim> this conference description has been saved, phila_mtg
13:05:07 <sam> present+ sam
13:05:11 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
13:05:20 <billroberts> regrets+ Lewis
13:05:24 <Duo> present+ duo
13:05:27 <billroberts> regrets+ phila
13:05:49 <dmitrybrizhinev> present+ dmitrybrizhinev
13:06:56 <kerry> regrets+ lewis
13:07:03 <kerry> regrets+ eparsons
13:07:17 <kerry> i cando it if you likje!
13:07:46 <kerry> scribe: kerry
13:07:52 <kerry> scribeNick: kerry
13:08:02 <kerry> chair: Bill
13:08:28 <kerry> topic: patent call https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
13:09:08 <kerry> propose: approve minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-sdwcov-minutes
13:09:23 <billroberts> +1
13:09:26 <kerry> +1
13:10:01 <dmitrybrizhinev> +1
13:10:12 <kerry> resolved approve minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-sdwcov-minutes
13:10:29 <kerry> resolved: approve minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-sdwcov-minutes
13:11:05 <kerry> topic: Brief recap of previous meeting
13:11:45 <kerry> bill: reviewed requirements, talked about subsets and web-friendly formats, reviewed data on the Web view
13:11:55 <kerry> ..with some members of that group on the call
13:12:12 <kerry> ...large portions of coverage data are gridded (but not all)
13:12:29 <kerry> ..ro gridded datasets sections can be defined farly easily
13:12:52 <kerry> ... will work on grid first, and also lokk not non-gridded for important cases
13:12:59 <kerry> s/lokk/look/
13:12:59 <billroberts> q?
13:13:08 <kerry> s/not/inot/
13:13:19 <billroberts> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/152
13:13:24 <kerry> topic: erminology for 'subsets' of coverage datasets (Action 152)
13:13:42 <kerry> s/ermin/termin/
13:14:05 <kerry> bill: kerry does not like 'subsetting" but I don't mind either way
13:14:27 <kerry> ... "extract" or something comes up all the time
13:14:35 <kerry> ... mimimise misunderstandings
13:15:07 <billroberts> kerry: there was a raging debate on mailing list. Most people don't mind
13:15:15 <billroberts> suggestions: extract, filter, ...
13:15:48 <kerry> <kerry summarises email discussion>
13:16:03 <kerry> q+
13:16:18 <billroberts> ack q
13:17:50 <billroberts> ack keryr
13:17:54 <billroberts> ack k
13:18:45 <kerry> q+
13:18:57 <billroberts> ack k
13:22:10 <kerry> .Maik: notes some reasons to prefer extract as the more general term, but not too fussed
13:22:32 <kerry> bill: thinks extract may be less confusing
13:23:18 <kerry> Proposed: that we use "extract" as the main work in most places (and mention subsetting as used for same thinfgwhen introducing)
13:23:25 <kerry> s/work/word/
13:23:40 <billroberts> +1
13:23:42 <kerry> s/thinfg/thing /
13:23:46 <kerry> +1
13:23:55 <Maik> +1
13:24:08 <dmitrybrizhinev> +1
13:24:09 <ScottSimmons> +1
13:24:15 <Duo> 0
13:24:21 <sam> +1
13:25:09 <kerry> resolved: to encourage the use of "extract" as the main word in most places (and mention subsetting as used for same thing when introducing)
13:25:12 <billroberts> https://github.com/ANU-Linked-Earth-Data/ontology
13:25:26 <sam> More verbose link with examples: https://github.com/ANU-Linked-Earth-Data/main-repo/wiki/NotesForCoveragesSubgroupApril06
13:25:33 <billroberts> Topic: ANU work on an ontology for earth observation data
13:25:34 <kerry> topic: Sam Toyer: ANU work on an ontology for representing earth observation data as Linked Data (see https://github.com/ANU-Linked-Earth-Data/ontology )
13:26:11 <dmitrybrizhinev> no I can't hear
13:26:36 <sam> sorry, not sure what's going on with phone
13:26:37 <Duo> should I introduce things while he gets that sorted?
13:26:42 <sam> yes please
13:26:51 <dmitrybrizhinev> yes
13:28:35 <kerry> Duo: 2 key points: using dggs for data (landsat data)
13:28:45 <billroberts> DGGS:  Discrete Global Grid System
13:28:51 <kerry> ....stores geospatail data in a standardised format
13:29:17 <kerry> ...lokking to put it into an rdf datacube using fuseki triple store and elda api
13:29:39 <kerry> ... dimitry is developing ontology inspired by coveragejson
13:30:27 <kerry> Dmitry: I have been writing the coveragejson spec in owl
13:30:37 <kerry> ...see the posted example and you can see it in rdf
13:30:57 <kerry> ...lets you define axes and link them to a crs, and link values to some other meanig
13:31:04 <kerry> ...this is the way coverajson does it
13:31:35 <kerry> s/coverajson/coveragejson/
13:31:47 <sam> is this working?
13:31:59 <dmitrybrizhinev> nope, just echoes
13:32:20 <kerry> <problems with sound>
13:32:30 <sam> sure, that works. I only have a little bit to say.
13:32:54 <sam> my part of the project is to build the API which will be used by the client app to access our satellite data
13:33:07 <sam> I think Duo explained some of that before (Fuseki + Elda)
13:33:24 <kerry> maik: interesting to see coveragejson moving this way
13:33:31 <kerry> ...what is the main motivation/
13:33:37 <sam> We've been trying to encode our data as RDF, but expose the service as a simple REST-ish API (at Kerry's suggestion)
13:34:08 <kerry> dmitrybrizhinev: seemed to be a good way to organise the data -- somethin like rdf data cube but is more efficient that rdf datacube
13:34:29 <kerry> maik: we come from the netcdf direction and just want a little bit of linking..
13:34:36 <sam> At the moment, I'm mostly interested in the group's feedback on (1) the suitability of SPARQL vs. REST-ish API from web developers' perspective and (2) best format for delivering data (JSON-LD, RDF/JSON, etc.)
13:34:38 <kerry> ...how do you want to use it
13:34:58 <sam> (/end comments)
13:35:03 <kerry> dmitrybrizhinev: exactly how it would be used is not really clear
13:35:31 <kerry> ...assuming that something a bit like the datacube would be useful...
13:35:56 <Duo> q+
13:36:06 <kerry> billroberts:  linked data and rdf in general offers the ability to link to anything, becuase everything gets an identifier
13:36:22 <kerry> ...every observation, datapoint, has a URI, so you can stuff about it
13:37:07 <kerry> ...other reason is you can combine data eg by sparql queries over one or several triple stores
13:37:20 <kerry> ... one sapect is http, another is standardisation
13:37:49 <kerry> ....depends on who wants to use the data and the tools they are used to
13:38:05 <kerry> ...works very well for metadata and alos provenance of data processing
13:38:33 <kerry> .... my first thought on seeing the rdf here is that he numbers may need a concise microformat....
13:38:50 <kerry> dmitrybrizhinev: that is what coveragejson does -- or could it even be a binary file
13:39:28 <kerry> billroberts: my fistreaction is that then there is not a lot of point in using rdf may be the worst of both worlds
13:39:52 <kerry> dmitrybrizhinev: do you have a suggestion?  this has been discussed many times -- its too much, the space expolodes
13:40:23 <kerry> ...what if it was an rdf list, and json-ld can encode into a json array
13:40:34 <kerry> ...would this be the best of both worlds?
13:41:11 <kerry> billroberts:   even people that like rdf hate rdf lists...
13:41:28 <kerry> ...maybe an approach like this linking to data in another rep would do...
13:41:32 <kerry> q+
13:42:01 <kerry> ... and link to a separate url to retun json in a file or something
13:42:31 <kerry> .... could be more like coveragejson -- could addmetadata in rdf while using json for the numbers
13:42:40 <billroberts> ack duo
13:42:46 <kerry> dmitrybrizhinev: yes, canot see rdf for terrabyte datasets
13:43:23 <kerry> Duo: melodies
13:43:29 <Maik> important: people don't fetch terrabytes anyway, always just small parts, it's all about the API
13:43:40 <kerry> billroberts:  yes coverage json is a product of the melodies project
13:44:01 <billroberts> ack kerry
13:44:06 <kerry> duo; looking at <tiles?..> and client applicatins
13:44:49 <billroberts> kerry: is coverageJSON metadata sufficient to describe a specific data point? or is it just metadata for a whole dataset or large part of a coverage?
13:45:09 <dmitrybrizhinev> Yes, this was a suggestion before - that there can be a clear distinction between the way the data is stored and the way it is represented in response to a query
13:47:36 <billroberts> kerry: if coveragejson provides a way to uniquely identify any element in the data, that should be sufficient
13:48:18 <billroberts> kerry: could make a URL pattern that allows identifying an extract using that
13:48:37 <billroberts> kerry: do we then have a sufficiently fine-grained way of identifying 'chunks'
13:48:47 <billroberts> Topic: criteria for assessing potential solution
13:50:06 <kerry> Maik: if you want to identify a single datapoint that would be a combination of a parameter plus a domain index (e.g. time)
13:50:18 <kerry> ...this could be put into a url
13:50:20 <Maik> #x=1,y=2,t=2
13:50:48 <kerry> ...index based subsetting, but sometimes perople want coordinates instead...
13:51:04 <kerry> ... some apis alsways use coordinates and not indices
13:51:18 <kerry> ....how do we assess what is good an what is not
13:51:45 <kerry> ...its hould not include any type of query language so even if you change underlying technologythe reference does not change
13:52:34 <kerry> billroberts: the API or method of identifying extract should be independetn of implementation
13:52:53 <kerry> .... but this is spatail data on the web, so needs to be http and uris
13:53:01 <kerry> s/spatail/spatial/
13:53:31 <kerry> ...needs to to be "simple" whatever that is -- needs to be easy for some community of data users
13:54:10 <kerry> ....we are agreeing some kind of exchange language between people who have a lot ov coverage data and some people on the web who need it
13:54:44 <kerry> Maik: e/g like leaflet, always lat/long, no other projections -- so even if dataset is not stored that way it should be usabl that way
13:55:19 <kerry> ...you should offer an API based on lat/longs, so you don't need to know how to do british national grids
13:55:31 <kerry> billroberts: yes, probably wgs84
13:56:00 <kerry> billroberts: that data manger should take charge of conversion between grid space and user CRS
13:57:01 <kerry> ....we want something that will persist for a while... needs to be not too closely tied to specific things
13:57:26 <kerry> billroberts: we want something that is not too verbose becuase data is large and we need to transfer it in a finite amount of time
13:57:38 <Maik> http://reading-escience-centre.github.io/covjson-playground/
13:57:54 <kerry> ....browers will run out of resources (time and space)
13:58:21 <kerry> maik; havong lots of examples and tools avaialble e.g. plugins, libraries
13:58:49 <kerry> billroberts: ANU work is looking at data through an API plus something that is onsuming it
13:59:01 <kerry> s/onsum/consum/
13:59:15 <kerry> ....would like document of waht works well and what does not
13:59:47 <kerry> billroberts: will develop a stra man set of criteria
14:00:23 <kerry> billroberts: wouild like examples with real data,as well as simple illustrations
14:01:01 <kerry> billroberts: reminder that you are encouraged to edit pages on working group wiki to share information and documents for discussion
14:01:25 <kerry> ....eg strangth and wekanesses
14:01:32 <kerry> due: yes we can do that in two weeks
14:02:15 <kerry> action:  Duo   to write up what has been learn on the wiki for 2 weeks
14:02:15 <trackbot> Error finding 'Duo'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
14:02:51 <kerry> rrsagent, make logs public
14:02:58 <kerry> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-sdwcov-minutes.html kerry
14:04:10 <billroberts> trackbot, end meeting
14:04:10 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:04:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ScottSimmons, Kerry, Maik, sam, billroberts, duo, dmitrybrizhinev
14:04:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:04:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-sdwcov-minutes.html trackbot
14:04:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:04:19 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-sdwcov-actions.rdf :
14:04:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Duo   to write up what has been learn on the wiki for 2 weeks [1]
14:04:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-sdwcov-irc#T14-02-15