00:03:44 <Karen> Karen has joined #dpub
14:25:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:25:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/04-dpub-irc
14:25:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:25:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:25:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:25:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:25:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:25:35 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2016
14:26:09 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Apr/0003.html
14:26:54 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:27:04 <Florian_> Florian_ has joined #dpub
14:27:28 <ivan> Regrets: Luc, Romain, Brady, Daniel
14:56:08 <NickRuffilo> NickRuffilo has joined #dpub
14:58:32 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
14:59:00 <HeatherF> HeatherF has joined #dpub
14:59:04 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
14:59:43 <tzviya> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Apr/0003.html
14:59:44 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
15:00:00 <HeatherF> Yay! I got the time zones correct!
15:00:01 <ivan> present+ ivan
15:00:06 <HeatherF> present+ Heather_Flanagan
15:00:31 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
15:00:34 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
15:01:00 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
15:01:23 <bigbluehat> Present+ Benjamin_Young
15:01:33 <Avneesh_Singh> Avneesh_Singh has joined #DPUB
15:01:34 <clapierre> clapierre has joined #DPUB
15:01:42 <ayla_stein> ayla_stein has joined #dpub
15:01:48 <clapierre> present+ Charles_LaPierre
15:02:08 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
15:03:39 <astearns> present+ astearns
15:03:47 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
15:03:47 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tzviya
15:03:48 <pkra> present+ peter krautzberger
15:03:50 <ayla_stein> present+ ayla_stein
15:03:53 <ayla_stein> HAHAHA
15:04:06 <pkra> I can scribe.
15:04:13 <NickRuffilo> thank you peter!
15:04:14 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
15:04:15 <pkra> pleasure.
15:04:17 <tzviya> scribenick: pkra
15:04:18 <HeatherF> Yay Peter!
15:04:19 <pkra> *swoon*
15:04:32 <tzviya> chair: Tzviya
15:04:50 <TimCole> Present+ Tim_Cole
15:04:50 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/2016/03/21-DPUB-minutes.html
15:04:56 <pkra> tzviya: review of last week's minutes. Any comments?
15:05:03 <pkra> ... minutes are approved.
15:05:19 <pkra> tzviya: ivan and others have attended the AC meeting in Boston recently.
15:05:44 <pkra> ivan: link to minutes
15:05:46 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/2016/03/21-ac-minutes.html
15:05:50 <pkra> ... are members only.
15:05:50 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/2016/03/22-ac-minutes.html
15:06:05 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
15:06:05 <Zakim> Present: Tzviya, Chris_Maden, ivan, Heather_Flanagan, Ben_De_Meester, Benjamin_Young, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, peter, krautzberger, ayla_stein, Tim_Cole
15:06:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see TimCole, pkra, ayla_stein, clapierre, Avneesh_Singh, Vlad, mgylling, bjdmeest, HeatherF, NickRuffilo, Zakim, RRSAgent, cmaden2, darobin, tzviya, ivan, Karen, liam,
15:06:08 <Zakim> ... shepazu, leaverou, nikos, iank_, bigbluehat, astearns, plinss, trackbot
15:06:17 <pkra> ... relevant for us: Bill made a publication on DPUB IG, pwp etc.
15:06:24 <pkra> ... was a great talk!
15:06:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:06:58 <pkra> ... lots of hallway conversations with people, incl. skeptics.
15:06:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
15:07:17 <pkra> ... many other conversations about vertical areas.
15:07:28 <pkra> ... web payment, entertainment, digital marketing etc.
15:07:30 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:08:04 <pkra> ... The second important part was Web Platform Group (html + APIs groups)
15:08:14 <pkra> ... gave an overview of current work and plans
15:08:42 <pkra> ... for us interesting: HTML 5.1 is coming up. CR in June, Rec in September.
15:09:05 <pkra> ... not sure about details element; needs checking.
15:09:35 <pkra> ... also a social/editorial aspect came up.
15:10:02 <pkra> ... huge beast. Used to be only one person really understood it.
15:10:25 <pkra> ... Also, a list / plans for other APIs came up.
15:10:43 <pkra> ... lots of go ahead but no fixed timelines.
15:10:54 <pkra> ... for us: web components and serviceworkers are on track.
15:11:24 <pkra> ... mozilla and edge have started looking into serviceworkers. (Apple: unkown).
15:11:31 <pkra> ... another item: manifest.
15:11:36 <pkra> ... also going ahead.
15:11:52 <pkra> ... Some things need trimming before shipping: web storage is worth keeping an eye on.
15:11:56 <tzviya> SW in mozilla: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Service_Workers
15:12:16 <pkra> ... Some are essentially on hold / might move to other groups. In particular (for us): packaging.
15:12:23 <pkra> ... packaging has not moved since we first considered it.
15:12:42 <pkra> ... not clear who/where it will be moving.
15:13:04 <pkra> ... Some things are really put on ice. E.g., finetext API [?]
15:13:14 <tzviya> s/finetext/FindText
15:13:17 <pkra> oh...
15:13:20 <pkra> :)
15:13:21 <bigbluehat> s/[?]/http://w3c.github.io/findtext/
15:13:23 <tzviya> q?
15:13:26 <pkra> thx.
15:13:45 <pkra> ... The last day was dominated by security. A LOT about EME.
15:14:12 <pkra> ... (you may have heard about protests.)
15:14:27 <pkra> ... not directly relevant for us.
15:15:03 <pkra> ... Also other things on security. Bruce Schneier gave great talk. Obviously, things need to be beefed up. But doesn't directly affect our work.
15:15:47 <pkra> ... One issue/advise that came up indirectly: might be worth talking about PWP ideas/structure to TAG since it touches on issues relevant to TAG. Early is probably better than later.
15:15:54 <tzviya> q?
15:16:03 <mgylling> q+
15:16:06 <tzviya> ack mg
15:16:17 <pkra> mgylling: was there any update on WebRTC?
15:16:34 <pkra> ivan: no. light conversation (people liking it) but not a topic.
15:16:39 <pkra> ... why?
15:16:56 <pkra> mgylling: b/c codec opus. this is relevant for audio books.
15:17:27 <pkra> tzviya: regarding security. While it might not be directly relevant, it keeps coming up. Maybe we can recruit somebody to help us catch up?
15:17:47 <pkra> ivan: ??? might be a good person to talk to.
15:17:55 <pkra> sorry, missed it.
15:17:58 <newbie> newbie has joined #dpub
15:18:07 <pkra> :)
15:18:14 <rdeltour> rdeltour has joined #dpub
15:18:19 <ivan> s/???/Virginie Galindo/
15:18:20 <tzviya> q?
15:19:00 <pkra> tzviya: before we continue, we have one new member: Nicholas, Stanford University. Library team, archiving, presentation etc.
15:19:25 <pkra> tzviya: let's have an update from the archival TF.
15:19:34 <ivan> Topic: Archival TF
15:20:10 <TimCole> https://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-dpub-arch-minutes.html
15:20:26 <pkra> TimCole: lots of data gathering. Last call with a lot about LOCKS (?). See the minutes.
15:20:38 <pkra> ... also CLOCKS, Portico.
15:20:50 <pkra> ... spidering, normalizing into standard format.
15:20:59 <tzviya> s/LOCKS/LOCKSS
15:21:03 <newbie> LOCKSS: http://www.lockss.org/
15:21:10 <pkra> ... just getting started with ebooks. Good success with journals article (using JATS).
15:21:13 <newbie> CLOCKSS: https://www.clockss.org/clockss/Home
15:21:13 <ivan> Regrets+ Deborah
15:21:34 <pkra> ... as much as possible straight from publishers.
15:22:00 <newbie> blog post on signposting the scholarly web: http://blog.dshr.org/2015/12/signposting-scholarly-web.html
15:22:04 <pkra> ... we see implications from our discussions for a profile / manifest adequate for archiving services.
15:22:34 <pkra> ... e.g., finding enough of a version of a package that can be used for all browsers downstream (not just one).
15:22:53 <pkra> ... e.g., migrating forward parts of a package (due to changes in standards).
15:23:10 <pkra> ... e.g., multiple pieces from multiple servers
15:23:13 <pkra> ... so a number of use cases.
15:23:29 <tzviya> q?
15:23:30 <pkra> ... learnging from PDF/A from Leonard
15:23:31 <mgylling_> mgylling_ has joined #dpub
15:23:50 <ivan> s/learnging/learning/
15:23:57 <pkra> thx ivan.
15:24:12 <ayla_stein> nope
15:24:35 <HeatherF> Yay for use cases!
15:24:56 <pkra> ... we're also trying to provide links and documentation for people to understand archiving. There's a section in PWP where these can go.
15:24:59 <tzviya> q?
15:25:09 <pkra> ... still planning to talk to more groups.
15:25:29 <pkra> tzviya: next up: locators.
15:25:33 <bjdmeest> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp-loc/
15:25:41 <pkra> Ben: we're finishing up our documents.
15:25:50 <pkra> ... we have general consensus in the task force.
15:26:04 <pkra> ... we talked about next steps for the TF and document.
15:26:21 <pkra> ... thinking about integrating this with the PWP document.
15:26:48 <bjdmeest> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp-loc/#manifest_algorithm
15:27:08 <pkra> ... the doc explains terminology, explains manifest, locator, retrieval etc
15:27:30 <pkra> ... maybe go through it in detail tomorrow?
15:27:37 <pkra> tzviya: are there questions?
15:27:38 <ivan> q+
15:27:42 <tzviya> ack iv
15:28:21 <pkra> ivan: one of the main outcome of the discussion, on the one hand, the really locator specific issues are relatively simple. Almost just a bunch of definitions (what do we mean "canonical locator" etc).
15:28:26 <pkra> ... most of these discussed on group level.
15:28:42 <pkra> ... nothing major / new really.
15:28:46 <pkra> ... two things are more general.
15:29:05 <pkra> ... on the terminology level: concepts, states etc. cf. PWP.
15:29:24 <pkra> ... but became clear that we need an active entity which we call "PWP processor" for now. Mostly client-side thing.
15:29:43 <pkra> ... not bound to any technology but trying to identify what functionality it will have to provide.
15:30:01 <pkra> ... the other new item: the really core issue is the manifest. That's what the processor needs.
15:30:13 <pkra> ... the algo itself is just saying "how do you get to the manifest in various settings".
15:30:31 <pkra> ... (what if only canonical locator, what you receive on http etc.)
15:31:14 <pkra> ... we're converging to the point where the most complicated thing will become: what kind of information do we have in the manifest (and then possibly format as well).
15:31:20 <pkra> ... here we have to synchronize with epub WG.
15:31:43 <pkra> ... this is the high-level view of the TF results.
15:31:59 <pkra> ... Basically, the localtor TF has done what it was supposed to do.
15:32:15 <pkra> tzviya: do we want to publish this on its own or integrate into PWP or leave alone?
15:32:39 <pkra> Ben: recently we discussed that it makes sense to integrate it; lots of overlap with PWP discussion.
15:32:53 <pkra> ... not sure if we have to wait for PWP to be further along.
15:32:57 <mgylling_> mgylling_ has joined #dpub
15:33:31 <pkra> ivan: I think this document would be better if it's part of PWP document. But not in its current form (or else it gets huge).
15:34:00 <pkra> ... the first section of PWP is basically use cases. Now that we have a use case doc, we should move/incorporate there.
15:34:10 <pkra> ... then the draft becomes a more formal document.
15:34:28 <pkra> ... more on technology. describe the "PWP processor" more abstractly.
15:34:34 <mgylling_> q+
15:34:42 <pkra> ... merge so that the technical content is more elaborate.
15:34:55 <pkra> ... I'd expect a section on manifest there eventually
15:35:10 <pkra> ... address the problems coming from archiving etc.
15:35:14 <tzviya> ack mg
15:35:40 <pkra> mgylling: so the part that isn't use cases would go into the PWP whitepaper?
15:35:46 <ayla_stein> need to leave for another meeting
15:35:49 <pkra> ivan: yes. and the use cases should move to use case doc.
15:36:06 <pkra> mgylling: depends on what we see the PWP whitepaper to become.
15:36:19 <pkra> ... originally a "shallow" document, overview.
15:36:39 <pkra> ... if we do this, then we're saying: we'll be growing this into something with a lot more technical detail.
15:36:39 <tzviya> q+
15:36:48 <pkra> ivan: the current version already has a lot of detail.
15:36:54 <pkra> ... SW, state etc.
15:37:00 <pkra> ... so we're moving in that direction already.
15:37:38 <pkra> ... but perhaps we should keep the a short vision document.
15:38:20 <tzviya> q-
15:38:24 <pkra> mgylling: more a minor issue. More important to research and publish this. Not important to me, just want to clarify that the whitepaper was a vision paper and is slowly becoming something different.
15:38:51 <pkra> ivan: just to recap: I think the locators doesn't work as a standalone doc.
15:39:04 <tzviya> q?
15:39:05 <pkra> tzviya: we should probably discuss the direction for the whitepaper separatelu.
15:39:15 <pkra> tzviya: next up: Use Cases.
15:39:25 <tzviya> topic: Use Cases
15:39:41 <pkra> HeatherF: romain and I discussed next steps.
15:39:49 <pkra> ... a bit of a gap coming up.
15:39:56 <pkra> ... we have a wide collection of use cases.
15:40:05 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-pwp-ucr/wiki/Use-Cases-Overview
15:40:16 <pkra> ... but I want to go ahead and create the PWP use cases in the spirit of CEIC [?] doc.
15:40:29 <tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp-ucr/
15:40:49 <tzviya> s/CEIC/CSV on the Web
15:40:50 <pkra> ...  I also looked at last minutes. Looks like a lot of discussion whether packaging is or is not in scope.
15:41:21 <pkra> tzviya: I think I meant that we wanted to discuss this further.
15:42:09 <pkra> mgylling: we realized it's in scope but a huge chunk so we should look at this in the groups.
15:42:22 <pkra> ... maybe good for virtual F2F in May.
15:42:50 <tzviya> q+ to talk about how people should add info
15:43:06 <pkra> HeatherF: we also talked about DRM, archiving use cases.
15:43:13 <pkra> ... looking for those come in. Is DRM relevant?
15:43:33 <pkra> ivan: early on decided DRM is not in scope. But maybe we should revisit.
15:43:46 <pkra> ... we also "lost" people who were interested in DRM.
15:44:00 <pkra> mgylling: but security and privacy are not out of scope.
15:44:09 <pkra> ivan: agreed.
15:44:41 <tzviya> ack tz
15:44:41 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about how people should add info
15:44:41 <pkra> tzviya: from epub, we got the idea to look at hooks for encryption/DRM instead.
15:45:02 <pkra> ... other TFs might be collecting use cases in their own repos / docs.
15:45:12 <pkra> ... might just be waiting for sign to move them over.
15:45:30 <pkra> ... should they do issues or just add to docs?
15:45:35 <pkra> HeatherF: either works.
15:46:30 <TimCole> q+
15:46:35 <pkra> HeatherF: I think we've covered everything in the overview.
15:46:42 <tzviya> ack tim
15:46:49 <pkra> tzviya: I think several people promised additions but haven't.
15:47:00 <pkra> TimCole: we put ours up on our wiki page.
15:47:33 <pkra> ... could you walk us through what should be in the use case? So that we're sure we get the right information in.
15:48:05 <pkra> HeatherF: my take: tell a story of what an actor is trying to accomplish.
15:48:33 <pkra> ... not saying "using X technology to do the following" but "read a recipe and need to read it offline".
15:49:42 <pkra> TimCole: let me try. "I've archived a PWP that contains several components, one of which is shared among components but that component is now newer than previously archived, do I update the component so that it's identical to PWP and archive or do I consider the original archive for that PWP?"/
15:49:53 <pkra> tzivya: best practice is making it as simple as possible.
15:50:09 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Use_Cases
15:50:12 <pkra> ... that way you end up finding out whether you have one or many.
15:50:16 <pkra> ... cf. annotation use cases.
15:50:28 <pkra> ... those are very good.
15:50:38 <pkra> ... "Tim wants to do xyz".
15:50:51 <pkra> HeatherF: from that try: at least 2-3 use cases.
15:51:01 <pkra> TimCole: ok, we'll try to be very granular.
15:51:24 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:51:24 <Zakim> Present: Tzviya, Chris_Maden, ivan, Heather_Flanagan, Ben_De_Meester, Benjamin_Young, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, peter, krautzberger, ayla_stein, Tim_Cole, Bill_Kasdorf
15:51:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see mgylling, rdeltour, nullhandle, Bert, TimCole, pkra, clapierre, Vlad, bjdmeest, HeatherF, NickRuffilo, Zakim, RRSAgent, cmaden2, darobin, tzviya, ivan, Karen, liam,
15:51:28 <Zakim> ... shepazu, leaverou, nikos, iank_, bigbluehat, astearns, plinss, trackbot
15:51:28 <pkra> tzviya: to all: don't worry about the form too much. Just write them. If they're not perfect, we don't care -- we need the info out there and can clean it up.
15:51:31 <tzviya> q?
15:52:00 <NickRuffilo> q+
15:52:18 <pkra> ... to those how volunteered: check the wiki where your name will show!
15:52:32 <tzviya> ack ni
15:53:06 <pkra> NickRuffilo: I sent my use case to the group, got feedback, revised it. What's my next step? Put on wiki?
15:53:12 <tzviya> post use cases to https://github.com/w3c/dpub-pwp-ucr/issues
15:53:14 <pkra> HeatherF: eithe on the wiki or put it in an issue.
15:53:19 <pkra> ... whatever you find easier.
15:53:20 <ivan> q+
15:53:23 <tzviya> ack iv
15:54:22 <pkra> ivan: re use cases. Permissions&Obligations is starting to collect use cases.  We could use more publishing use cases.
15:54:40 <pkra> ... we had a mention of this work in the metadata report last year.
15:54:55 <pkra> ... This is the time! Submit something to the group. Send them to me or whatever works for you.
15:55:15 <pkra> ... do it now.
15:55:53 <pkra> ... one more thing: the AnnotationWG has published three drafts. Pretty final. Please read through and comment!
15:56:52 <pkra> wait, there are points?
15:56:59 <HeatherF> Yes, there are points
15:57:12 <pkra> tzviya: we'll be discussing the annotations documents.
15:57:46 <HeatherF> :-D
15:58:34 <clapierre> clapierre has left #dpub
15:58:43 <pkra> TimCole: we have a bit of traveling shortages but hopefully get an update soon.
15:58:48 <pkra> ivan: the week after next sounds good.
15:59:00 <tzviya> q?
15:59:11 <pkra> :)
15:59:16 <Vlad> present+
15:59:20 <Vlad> thanks!
15:59:51 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/04-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:00:25 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has left #dpub
16:00:37 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:00:37 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:00:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, Chris_Maden, ivan, Heather_Flanagan, Ben_De_Meester, Benjamin_Young, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, peter, krautzberger, ayla_stein,
16:00:40 <Zakim> ... Tim_Cole, Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad
16:00:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/04-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:00:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:00:46 <RRSAgent> I see no action items