14:03:05 RRSAgent has joined #exi 14:03:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/15-exi-irc 14:03:07 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:03:07 Zakim has joined #exi 14:03:09 brutzman has joined #exi 14:03:09 Zakim, this will be EXIWG 14:03:09 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:03:10 Meeting: Efficient XML Interchange Working Group Teleconference 14:03:11 Date: 15 March 2016 14:06:56 Present: TK, DP, CB 14:11:49 scribe: TK 14:12:17 scribeNick: taki 14:14:47 TOPIC: W3C TPAC 2016 - Will your group meet in Lisbon? 14:16:45 TK: Javier and Don will join by phone. DP and TK will like to be able to attend. 14:18:01 DP: One idea is to have a breakout session on Wednesday. 14:18:32 DP: We need to prepare some short presentation for that. 14:18:58 DB: There is still a chance for me to go and join. Just not sure for now. 14:26:58 TOPIC: Diagrams of EXI Compression for web Pages 14:28:49 DB: Tried to extend EXI-JSON pattern to other technologies. 14:29:16 DB: CSS is quite structured. 14:30:31 DB: I also plan to play a bit with CSS. 14:30:38 s/DB/DP/ 14:31:59 DB: JavaScript. Somebody expressed Java in XML years ago. 14:33:27 https://webassembly.github.io/ 14:33:43 DP: There is some effort. It is based on abstract tree. 14:36:45 DP: WebAssembly is a community within W3C. 14:37:17 Possibility of asking Javascript EXMA effort what is official compression 14:38:07 Possibility of including a variety of JavaScript compression schemes (CBOR JSON etc.) to replace the text block, with annotation regarding compression used 14:38:14 s/EXMA/ECMA/ 14:39:24 Diagram should insert box showing JSON XML representation 14:40:58 Please type in any comments so that I can improve next version of this diagram 14:42:04 DB: HTML5 has two syntaxes. One is HTML. The other is XHTML/ 14:42:25 Two syntaxes are defined in HTML5: HTML syntax (includes HTML4) and XHTML syntax 14:42:43 Both syntaxes have clear definitions how to map to DOM 14:44:22 Dotted lines mean something that is not yet done 14:44:32 DB: We need to find or create XHTML5 schema. 14:45:23 DP: Schema is useful for most of our use cases. 14:45:57 DP: When it comes to text-based messages, the benefit you get from schema is not that big. 14:47:15 Interestingly, schema is not required for EXI; can instead use schema-less EXI 14:48:07 Nevertheless I think that having a schema helps with quality assurance (QA) of input content 14:48:37 TK: I tried HTML schema about 4 years ago. I found the generated grammar very large. 14:49:12 s/Nevertheless/Additionally/ 14:50:02 Nevertheless I think schema-informed EXI offers major opportunities for performance and consistent EXI HTML output documents 14:51:53 Knowing all element/attribute tokens in EXI tables in advance offers numerous performance improvements; this greatly benefits Internet of Things IOT becoming Web of Things WOT 14:52:53 Summary: for HTML, schema is most likely to benefit performance (compression maybe not so dramatic) 14:53:36 DP: You need to decide upfront which set of schemas you use. 14:54:41 DB: SVG schema is also possible. 14:55:52 DB: Bundling might already be EXI2 requirement. 14:56:18 DB: Bundling is similar to Zip. 14:56:36 s/Zip/ZIP and tar/ 14:56:43 DP: Is it a container to contain several documents? 14:56:54 DB: Yes. 14:57:17 DB: Unbundling makes the original Web page. 14:58:14 DP: Archiving for Web pages, I am not sure if it works well or not. 14:58:49 Perhaps it is listed in prior EXI goals & requirements; will investigate further 14:59:29 DB: Compression and archiving is similar to tar+gzip. 14:59:41 Summary: zip compression + achiving ~= .gzip + tar ~= EXI with EXI2 bundling 15:01:01 DB: Bundle can be encrypted and signed to make compressed secure web page. 15:02:16 DB: To reverse the steps, we can first verify authentication, decrypt, then unbundle it. 15:03:18 DP: EXI bundle contains CSS, HTML, JavaScript files. Is that correct? 15:03:23 DB: Correct. 15:03:28 Bundle is a container that contains multiple EXI documents 15:04:21 Merit is that each individual contained EXI document uses a different compression scheme 15:05:17 DP: Some files cached. I wonder how bundle work in HTML web page use case. 15:06:50 Primary function of "bundling" is to collect multiple diverse documents, include metadata/structure information, and allow subsequent reassembly into source HTML document with all original sections 15:07:55 DB: We can use XSLT in the unbundling process. 15:09:43 DB: CSS to XML conversion is the only missing part. 15:13:08 DB: We can add more test cases to compare against Zip, cbor, bson, etc. 15:14:27 Thanks for reviewing this together... As the summary list of items on page 3 shows, there is more work to do. It is a happy surprise that most functional pieces are available already. 15:14:59 DP: important to reach out to other groups in W3C regarding what can be achieved 15:15:01 DP: We can reach out to Web folks. TPAC is a good chance to get feedback. 15:16:37 We should imrove these materials and list known gaps. We should brief Liam, Robin, other technical experts to seek feedback. 15:20:05 Discussed how prominence of Javascript efforts sometimes seem to overshadow importance of XML and document-centric markup. 15:30:56 DP: We need show benefits of EXI, would like to know feedback. 15:31:07 DP: One chance is TPAC. 15:35:15 rrsagent, create minutes 15:35:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/15-exi-minutes.html taki 16:18:46 Zakim has left #exi