See also: IRC log
<Kim> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#intro
<Kathy> scribe: chriscm
kim: let's take a look at the wiki, it's been reorganized a bit.
<David> could you drop the link in again
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
marc: new organization looks better
kim: Any questions about current assignments?
Marc: Has some projects that are winding down, more time to make progress.
Chriscm: Waiting on status of survey for m29
<Kim> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#intro
jeanne: Wanted to put some information in the intro for discussion to clarify. When John Folliot joined, he was confused over our purpose.
KathyW: It hasn't been decided
how our work would be integrated with WCAG and how it will be
structured.
... Anything to do with WCAG will likely need to be stripped
out, and we should only deal with mobile.
... People are getting hung up on our numbering system,
stemming from WCAG elements. We may need to propose new success
criteria, extensions, or combinations of those
approaches.
... We may actually be starting WCAG 2.1
... Regardless of the approach, the purpose of the document
needs to be more clear.
Jeanne: That's just an editorial
issue. Can be tackled at a later date.
... We need to agree on the introduction paragraph.
Kim: I like it, I like that you added mobile applications.
David: if we do roll into 2.1.1 when we come back to working group, it will be unlikely that we can apply it to web applications.
Jeanne: Let's not make that assumption.
How do I increment the queue?
Marc: With the 508 refresh, having guidelines that apply makes sense.
Alistair: mobile applications is too broad.
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say need to not constrain creativity, but also need realistic expectations and not take personally if WCAG WG defers some aspects
<David> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef
Michael: don't constrain creativity. Some aspects may be restrained for very specific reasons.
<David> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/
<jeanne> +1 Michael
<Kim> +1 Michael
<Kim> Chris: this may someday apply to native even if any native specific things getting pulled out at least we don't have to go back and rework on those things
<agarrison> +1
Henny: All good points. Hybrid
apps should not be forgotten. Tech agnostic. In regarding to
final wording change "can also apply to mobile applications" to
"...may apply..."
... Even if it doesn't strictly apply, native developers come
to wcag, and specifically the mobile extension for
guidance.
<Kim> +1 Henny
<David> +1
<Kathy> +1
<marcjohlic> +1
<jeanne> +1
Kim: What do people think about Henny's suggestion to sub in "may apply..."
+1
Jeanne: Don't get to hung up on definition of web from wcag, because it was written before smartphones and mobile apps existed.
David: We are constrained by definition within the realm of 2.1.
Jeanne: We don't want to constrain our thoughts. We should allow the working group to make that decison.
Kathy: Don't censor ourselves, let the working group make the call.
<agarrison> may apply to apsects of mobile device interfaces made with web technologies
Kathy: Hybrid apps add further complications. A webview within an app is still web content, even though it's not within a browser.
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say \that the definition of WCAG was written before smartphones and mobile apps existed.
chriscm: Web content hardcoded does not apply to all content rendered by a browser.
Michael: This is an issue that needs to be addressed going forward, even if it can't be addressed in WCAG 2.1
<jeanne> This needs to go into the Coordination section
Kim: Do we need to add a proposal as an action.
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to document discussion on applicability of the definition of web content to mobile [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Document discussion on applicability of the definition of web content to mobile [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-03-17].
David: Henny adding the word
"may" to the introduction addresses my concerns.
... Focus on hybrid and responsive applications before any
native specific.
<Kim> Chris: just because it's not a capability now it might be later – look at with the capabilities of native are and assume they'll eventually be capabilities of mobile web as well and assume that any criteria have respect to the capabilities of native even if we don't say native apps can do this we can say mobile web may be able to do this because it's a capability the platform
<MichaelC> +1, there are a lot of APIs being developed for Web that match mobile device features
<jeanne> +1 Chris
<Kim> +1 Chris
Agarrison: It's true that you can do that. Many features are already available through things like cordova.
<Henny> +1 Alistair - clearly defining what a mobile application is.
<Kim> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/2016-03-07/
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/M029
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/2016-03-07/results
<Kathy> Chris: M029 is applicable to touch when assistive technology is turned on
<Kim> Chris: either sequential navigation or iinstead of waiting for sequential navigation, on release
<Kathy> Chris: Actions should not be taken on focus
<Kim> Kathy: any known issues, specifics that we can reference?
<Kim> Kathy: like this user agent does not support blah blah blah
<Kim> Chris: too obvious ones voice over and talk back both support same navigation mechanisms
<Kim> Chris: trying to ensure that people understand when you're swiping on the screen nothing should be activated until you do double tap or confirmation action
<Kim> David: I think of this as a failure technique – somebody fails WCAG if they do this. This isn't really native behavior they have to be creatively stupid to make this happen. By nature they are going to override. I don't think this should be positive technique I think this should be a failure technique – you fail if you do this dumb thing, and here's an example of how you can do it dumb and...
<Kim> ...need code example. Has anybody run across applications that actually do this
<Kim> Chris: on android the stop dialer does this
<Kim> David: failure technique and make it really clear that this is not going to happen if you doing the normal stuff you have to be really creative to do this
<Kim> Chris: I agree
<Kim> Chris: going to convert to FM, give it the next FM number
<David> FMXX: Failure of Success Creteria xxx as a result of overriding assistive technology in such as way as to activate a control when the touch is removed
<David> froma control
<David> thx
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ Michael: mobile applications is too broad./Alistair: mobile applications is too broad./ Found Scribe: chriscm Inferring ScribeNick: chriscm Present: Alistair Kathy alistair jeanne henny chriscm marcjohlic MichaelC Kim David Regrets: Detlev Alan Found Date: 10 Mar 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]