16:02:06 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 16:02:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-hcls-irc 16:02:08 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:02:08 Zakim has joined #hcls 16:02:10 Zakim, this will be HCLS 16:02:10 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 16:02:11 Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference 16:02:11 Date: 08 March 2016 16:02:19 Tony has joined #HCLS 16:04:22 Topic: Tony to try using fhir:code and fhir:coding.code in the ontology 16:04:29 Tony: It works! 16:04:45 dbooth: I forwarded your email (with your permission) to the list. 16:04:53 tony: Checked things into github also. 16:05:43 lloyd: Are we able to appropriately assert the concepts at the right level, regardless of whether the element has a datatype of CodeableConcept, Coding or Code? 16:06:37 tony: Yes, the code is very specific. E.g., when looking at AllergyIntolerance.status, if you say that the code is confirmed, then the inference is that it is concept confirmed, but also concept active, because confirmed is also an active. 16:06:56 lloyd: But if the datatype is code, and you are linking a binding ont, how and where is the system asserted? 16:07:18 tony: The system is equvalent to the VS, so you know the AllergyIntolerance.status is a system from that VS. 16:07:51 .. You know that from object property AllergyInterolerance.status . It gives yiou the range of that object property. That link it. 16:09:15 lloyd: want to see an exmple with elemtn of type code, and the VS drawn from SNOMED. We have the SNOMED ont, and a binding ontology. Want to see how that allows the auto inference of the concept on the element of type code. 16:09:30 tony: Same as you would do it on an internal ont. 16:10:06 ... Code doesn't have the system, so you need to look at the range of the object propety to determine the system. The system is the constraint on the range of that object property. 16:10:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2016Mar/0004.html 16:11:50 lloyd: What does the binding ont, if the binding could be to either a CodeableConcept, Codign or a Code? How does that work? 16:15:17 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2016Mar/0007.html 16:15:20 with line numbers 16:18:15 tony: line16 is axiom for the FHIR internal terminology bridge. 16:22:32 lloyd: This binding ont is based on the premise that it will always be datatype code. but with snomed you won't always know the code. 16:23:48 tony: line22 is determined from line 38 and the fhir:binding and lines 58 and 59 for the range. 16:26:27 tony: The reasoner looks at line 58 and 59, determines that the range of fhir:AllergyIntolerance.status isrdfs:range fhir:code and fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status 16:27:31 ... That establishes line 22, that it is an fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status. 16:33:12 ... Then it picks up the value "confirmed" (line 25) from the instance data. Therefore the intersection on line 22 is true, therefore .. 16:34:13 ... The anonymous class on line 19 is that intersection class. 16:36:57 ... and that intersection class is a *subclass* (per line 20) of that class on line 19. 16:37:47 dbooth: Therefore any member of the intersection class on 22 (and 19) is also a member of 21, ; 16:39:00 lloyd: I think I see how this will work, but it would still be useful to show a generic example where it can be either CodeableConcept, Coding or Code. 16:39:52 ... The binding ont must be constructed independent of the instance data. 16:40:42 ... The binding ont must be constructed from the snomed ont without knowledge of where it is used in FHIR. 16:41:39 ... i.e., when creating the binding ont, you don't know if snomed will show up in a codeableconcept or a coding. 16:42:08 ... In practice we don't have to worry about ext ontologies showing up directly in a Code. 16:42:24 ... But an internal code can show up in a Code, and there can be an equivalence relation to an external code. 16:42:36 ... (Leave that for the moment.) 16:43:00 tony: let's go through second example 16:43:07 ... Line 63 is the beginning. 16:57:15 TallTed has joined #hcls 17:01:32 [ rdfs:subClassOf status:confirmed ; 17:01:32 owl:intersectionOf ( 17:01:32 fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status 17:01:32 [ owl:onProperty fhir:value ; owl:hasValue "confirmed" ] )] . 17:01:32 inst:X a fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status ; fhir:value "confirmed" . 17:01:35 # UI shows that X being a status:confirmed is confirmed. 17:08:19 dbooth has joined #hcls 17:08:27 ... But we can say that even if the code system on the wire, when you're dealing with inference you have had to give it a code system in order to do anything. 17:09:03 ... It would be supplied . . . suppose we have certain pragmas for the wire transfer, and a set of use cases 17:09:16 ... Checking for contraindications . . . 17:09:49 ... Those showed up without a code system. if you are making decisions on those things, you have had to decide a code system. 17:11:03 tony: What happens if a code system is missing? 17:11:33 dbooth: If the code system is missing, clearly it must be assumed somehow, since the code could not have any meaning without one. 17:13:37 Present: David Booth, EricP, Tony Mallia, Lloyd McKenzie, Thomas Lukasik 17:15:23 tony: If system is not supplied in a Coding, then we need to determine it from the context. 17:15:43 ... E.g., the profile may provide a range constraint on the property. 17:19:55 eric: If we need per-property rules to figure out the code system, then we can infer them into a CodeableConcept structure. We can synthesize the CodeableConcept from the Codings. 17:20:13 LOST AUDIO 17:20:32 webex is awesome! 17:20:38 Topic: 5pm call 17:20:46 Who can make the 5pm ET call? 17:20:53 Please reply here. 17:22:00 Tony: I cannot 17:22:22 dbooth: We'll cancel 17:23:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:23:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 17:23:25 Chair: David Booth 17:23:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:23:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 17:24:15 Topic: Inference of status confirmed 17:24:21 [ rdfs:subClassOf status:confirmed ; 17:24:21 owl:intersectionOf ( 17:24:21 fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status 17:24:21 [ owl:onProperty fhir:value ; owl:hasValue "confirmed" ] )] . 17:24:21 inst:X a fhirvs:allergy-intolerance-status ; fhir:value "confirmed" . 17:24:23 # UI shows that X being a status:confirmed is confirmed. 17:25:27 eric: That shows how the "confirmed" inference works 17:27:04 ACTION: Tony to more fully write up how using fhir:code and fhir:coding.code work in the ontology 17:27:04 Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and register nicknames at . 17:27:27 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2016Mar/0007.html 17:32:00 ADJOURNED 17:32:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:32:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 18:15:09 TallTed has joined #hcls 19:30:03 Zakim has left #hcls