IRC log of aria-apg on 2016-03-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
18:01:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-aria-apg-irc
18:01:07 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make log world
18:01:17 [jamesn]
meeting: WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices Guide Taskforce
18:01:35 [annabbott]
present+ AnnAbbott
18:01:36 [jemma]
present+ JaEunJemmaKu
18:02:09 [mck]
agenda ?
18:02:28 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review updated section 2.31 tabpanel to resolve bug 28993 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/jn-tab-pattern-changes/practices/aria-practices.html#tabpanel
18:02:28 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review updated section 2.32 toolbar to resolve bug 29391 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg-toolbar/practices/aria-practices.html
18:02:28 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Initial review of section 2.2 Accordion http://w3c.github.io/aria/practices/aria-practices.html#accordion
18:02:28 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
18:04:41 [MichielBijl]
present+ MichielBijl
18:06:24 [jongund]
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18:06:43 [jamesn]
present+ JamesNurthen
18:06:48 [jamesn]
present+ MattKing
18:06:54 [jamesn]
present+ Charu
18:07:07 [jamesn]
present+ JonGunderson
18:07:18 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:07:32 [annabbott]
scribe: AnnAbbott
18:08:32 [cpandhi]
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18:10:16 [jamesn]
present+ Bryan
18:10:33 [mck]
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18:11:01 [jamesn]
scribe: annabbott
18:11:35 [annabbott]
zakim, next item
18:11:35 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Review updated section 2.31 tabpanel to resolve bug 28993 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/jn-tab-pattern-changes/practices/aria-practices.html#tabpanel" taken up [from
18:11:38 [Zakim]
... jamesn]
18:12:05 [IanPouncey]
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18:12:15 [IanPouncey]
present+ IanPouncey
18:12:30 [bgaraventa1979]
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18:13:00 [jamesn]
"Normally the newly focussed tab will automatically activate, but in some instances this will not happen and space or enter will be needed to activate the tab."
18:13:02 [bgaraventa1979]
present+ Bryan_Garaventa
18:13:02 [annabbott]
JN: did everything in the bug, plus arrow nav plus Space/Enter
18:13:10 [jamesn]
Space or Enter - with focus on a tab, space or enter will activate the tab if the tab does not activate automatically.
18:14:06 [annabbott]
MK: if Space or Enter are required, selected state should not follow focus
18:15:00 [annabbott]
Bryan: selected state is implicit with focus
18:15:16 [annabbott]
MK: no, not implicit
18:16:17 [annabbott]
MK: if not displayed, isn't selected - just focused
18:16:51 [annabbott]
MK: Selected and expanded are redundant
18:17:53 [annabbott]
Bryan: jQuery allows selection of multiple tabs - like for deletion
18:18:25 [annabbott]
MK: sort of unusual, would need to shift-select
18:18:50 [annabbott]
Ian: not this pattern
18:19:18 [annabbott]
MK: thought aria-expanded was global
18:19:47 [annabbott]
Bryan: was changed
18:20:18 [annabbott]
MK: selected is suppose to indicate expanded
18:21:23 [annabbott]
JN: multi-selectable is actually part of accordion pattern
18:22:12 [annabbott]
MK: should we include both selected AND expanded?
18:23:29 [annabbott]
Bryan: useful to include both, just in separate design patterns
18:24:21 [annabbott]
MK: aria-current is better all the way around
18:24:46 [annabbott]
MK: differences are too suble for end user to discern meaning
18:25:21 [annabbott]
JN: need to decide if this goes to publication on 11th
18:25:58 [annabbott]
MK: tabpanel is weird name for this section
18:26:12 [annabbott]
JN: would required a bunch of editing
18:26:13 [MichielBijl]
Doesn't sound like something we can edit that before the next publish
18:26:44 [annabbott]
MK: thinks it should be tabbed interface instead of tabpanel
18:27:25 [jamesn]
Tabs?
18:27:32 [annabbott]
MK: tabpanel only refers to a part of the widget
18:28:20 [MichielBijl]
+1
18:28:23 [MichielBijl]
+2
18:28:27 [jamesn]
https://www.google.com/design/spec/components/tabs.html#
18:29:47 [annabbott]
JN: let's address after thtis draft
18:30:00 [annabbott]
thtis=this
18:30:09 [MichielBijl]
+1
18:30:15 [annabbott]
JN: should we pull this draft in?
18:30:20 [annabbott]
MK: agrees
18:31:44 [annabbott]
MK: need language to differentiate difference between active and selected
18:31:49 [MichielBijl]
Tab panel rename issue on github: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/286
18:32:58 [annabbott]
JG: should examples follow the spec or APG?
18:33:37 [bgaraventa1979]
important to keep in mind that the spec is normative, and APG is not
18:34:06 [annabbott]
MK: need an example that follows 1.0 spec
18:34:15 [annabbott]
zakim, next item
18:34:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Initial review of section 2.2 Accordion http://w3c.github.io/aria/practices/aria-practices.html#accordion" taken up [from jamesn]
18:34:43 [MichielBijl]
zakim, take up item 2
18:34:43 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review updated section 2.32 toolbar to resolve bug 29391 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg-toolbar/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:34:46 [jamesn]
zakim, take up item 2
18:34:46 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review updated section 2.32 toolbar to resolve bug 29391 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg-toolbar/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:36:18 [annabbott]
MK: did everything in bug, except delete, which includes discussions
18:36:30 [Birkir]
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18:37:07 [annabbott]
MK: MK: rewrote second paragraph re: reason for use (grouping)
18:37:43 [annabbott]
MK: kbd seems more part of design and left it in
18:39:01 [annabbott]
MK: use toolbar only if three controls exist
18:39:29 [Birkir]
present+ Birkir
18:40:10 [annabbott]
JG: fine with me
18:40:44 [jemma]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/jn-tab-pattern-changes/practices/aria-practices.html#toolbar
18:42:01 [Birkir]
It eturns a beautiful 404 error indeed.
18:42:16 [annabbott]
JN: merged and deleted that branch just now
18:42:34 [annabbott]
JN: what about vertical toolbars?
18:42:45 [annabbott]
MK: nothing in bug about orientation
18:44:04 [annabbott]
JG: should both arrow keys (left & up) be supported
18:46:16 [annabbott]
MK: anytime there is orientation, should add a Note
18:47:20 [jamesn]
"If the items in a menu or menubar are arranged horizontally:
18:47:20 [jamesn]
Right Arrow performs as Down Arrow is described above and vice versa.
18:47:20 [jamesn]
Left Arrow performs as Up Arrow is described above and vice versa."
18:48:00 [annabbott]
Group: agrees
18:48:49 [annabbott]
Group: should change in tabpanel also
18:50:28 [annabbott]
MK: inexperienced screen reader users just press keys
18:51:00 [annabbott]
MK: add bullet for aria-orientation
18:51:21 [annabbott]
JN: no mention in tabpanel either
18:51:55 [annabbott]
MK: add to bug or log an issue in case can't get to it immediately
18:52:20 [Birkir]
What is better, swarms or superbugs?
18:55:56 [annabbott]
MK: will merge this one in
18:56:37 [annabbott]
MK: would like to get listbox in this week - will make edits with a note that it has been updated and not reviewed
18:56:49 [annabbott]
JN: or send to list for review
18:58:11 [annabbott]
MK: only remaining is tree
18:58:18 [annabbott]
JN: will try to get done
18:58:46 [annabbott]
MK: lot of bugs, but not discussed by group
18:59:05 [annabbott]
MK: and not related to patterns
18:59:36 [annabbott]
MK: next is accordion
19:01:37 [annabbott]
Ian: creating two examples - one follows current pattern and other a series of disclosure widgets
19:02:49 [annabbott]
MK: for second, have you considered heading with a button?
19:02:57 [annabbott]
Ian: yes
19:03:14 [annabbott]
MK: likes button inside heading
19:04:28 [annabbott]
JN: Ian is writing implementation, not the design pattern
19:05:03 [annabbott]
JN: maybe include design pattern as part of that effort?
19:05:57 [annabbott]
MK: Do we want to log any bugs against current accordion text in APG?
19:08:11 [annabbott]
Jemma: kbd interaction pattern isn't clear
19:09:35 [mck]
Accordian bug from bryan
19:09:37 [mck]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26254
19:09:38 [mck]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26254
19:10:35 [annabbott]
MK: believes it is bug Bryan raised
19:13:38 [annabbott]
JN: should look at spec
19:13:49 [Birkir]
This proposed accordion pattern (based on tabs) is near impossible for a mobile device user to interact with (easy to lose tabs after a tabpanel). Themore simplified version is much more workable on all devices.
19:15:10 [annabbott]
MK: use Bryan's bug as starting point.
19:15:40 [annabbott]
JN: but won't happen before next publish
19:16:05 [annabbott]
zakim, next item
19:16:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Initial review of section 2.2 Accordion http://w3c.github.io/aria/practices/aria-practices.html#accordion" taken up [from jamesn]
19:16:20 [annabbott]
zakim, take up item 4
19:16:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
19:17:13 [annabbott]
MK: modal dialog isn't done
19:17:35 [annabbott]
MK: mark toolbar and tab done
19:18:08 [annabbott]
JN: will indicate pending issues
19:18:35 [annabbott]
MK: menu/menubutton ready for review?
19:18:36 [jemma]
https://rawgit.com/jongund/oaa-examples/master/examples/menu-button/menu-button-2.html
19:18:44 [jemma]
https://rawgit.com/jongund/oaa-examples/master/examples/menu-button/menu-button-1.html
19:19:12 [annabbott]
MK: are examples merged in?
19:19:22 [annabbott]
JG: no merged in
19:20:27 [annabbott]
MK: make pull request once group reaches concensus
19:20:38 [annabbott]
JN: can always be rejected
19:21:20 [annabbott]
MK: look at menu-button1 first
19:21:33 [annabbott]
MK: works with JAWS
19:24:17 [annabbott]
MK: what's the difference?
19:27:12 [annabbott]
JG: second example uses native semantics
19:27:31 [annabbott]
MK: second example does not work with JAWS
19:28:04 [annabbott]
Jemma: only include example 1?
19:28:33 [annabbott]
JG: second example is lacking onclick event
19:29:32 [annabbott]
MK: one should have a submenu - can merge that in later
19:30:07 [jongund]
go to go we will work on and fix menu-2 and add sub menu to an example
19:30:57 [annabbott]
Jemma: will work with Jon
19:33:37 [annabbott]
Jemma: fix title and get merged in
19:37:35 [mck]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:37:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-aria-apg-minutes.html mck
19:38:09 [mck]
rrsagent, make log public
19:38:21 [MichielBijl]
chair: Matt
19:38:32 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:38:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:38:46 [mck]
zakim, bye
19:38:46 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been LJWatson, Michiel_Bijl, Jemma_Ku, JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, jemmajaeunku, Bryan_Garaventa, JaEunJemmaKu, MichielBijl, MattKing,
19:38:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria-apg
19:38:49 [Zakim]
... Charu, JonGunderson, IanPouncey, Birkir