IRC log of auto on 2016-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

23:52:42 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-irc
00:00:19 [Wonsuk]
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00:02:57 [junichi_hashimoto]
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00:05:46 [QingAn]
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00:06:42 [wonsuk]
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00:20:56 [kaz]
oh
00:22:09 [ted]
ted has changed the topic to: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2016Mar/0016.html call coordinates
00:26:47 [powellkinney]
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00:28:33 [hira]
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00:29:21 [ted]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/81
00:30:25 [QingAn]
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00:32:51 [urata_access]
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00:32:57 [kaz]
present: Kaz, Dave, Junichi, Powell, Shinjiro, Song, Ted, Wonsuk
00:33:28 [kaz]
ted: mentions the possible agenda
00:33:35 [junichi_hashimoto]
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00:33:36 [Yingying]
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00:33:39 [kaz]
... Dave's new posted issue 81
00:33:48 [kaz]
... Paris f2f
00:34:28 [kaz]
... also should do introduction for Song Li
00:34:43 [kaz]
... located in Seattle
00:34:45 [wonsuk]
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00:34:47 [kaz]
... security expert
00:35:01 [kaz]
... had good conversation while a go
00:35:28 [kaz]
... Junichi running the Security/Privacy TF
00:35:40 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
00:35:43 [ted]
Present+ Ted
00:35:47 [kaz]
song: tx
00:35:51 [Yingying]
present+ Yingying_Chen
00:35:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
00:35:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
00:36:36 [QingAn]
present+ QingAn
00:37:09 [kaz]
song: security company
00:37:20 [kaz]
... different devices including connected cars
00:37:32 [kaz]
... this automotive group is of interest
00:37:42 [ted]
http://newskysecurity.com
00:38:00 [kaz]
... would make contribution
00:38:12 [kaz]
s/company/company, Newskysecurity
00:38:41 [kaz]
... after the call maybe we can have another call to catch up
00:39:04 [ted]
UW - University of Washington which compromises a number http://www.autosec.org/people.html
00:39:08 [kaz]
... traveling abroad till 17, though
00:39:30 [kaz]
ted: tx
00:39:48 [kaz]
... if you can join the IRC at http://irc.w3.org/?channels=auto
00:40:11 [kaz]
... taking minutes on the IRC
00:40:46 [kaz]
present+ Hirabayashi
00:40:50 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
00:40:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
00:40:55 [djensen47]
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00:40:58 [kaz]
Meeting: Automotive WG
00:41:13 [Song_Li]
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00:41:29 [hira]
present+ Hirabayashi
00:41:38 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
00:41:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
00:41:50 [kaz]
ted: two topics for today
00:41:59 [kaz]
... refactoring the current vehicle API
00:42:10 [kaz]
... Dave Jensen took an action at the previous call
00:42:19 [kaz]
... and did so. tx!
00:42:25 [kaz]
... dropped the link
00:42:26 [ted]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/81
00:42:44 [kaz]
ted: next topic is April f2f meeting
00:43:11 [kaz]
... Dave, could you walk though your post?
00:43:52 [kaz]
s|81|81 Use a service-based API instead of WebIDL|
00:43:59 [kaz]
s/https/-> https/
00:44:16 [kaz]
dave: opened up an issue (issue 81)
00:44:28 [kaz]
... can close the previous issue 72
00:44:41 [ted]
-> https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/80 Meta issue to keep track of actions
00:44:53 [kaz]
... discussion started on the web api
00:45:28 [kaz]
... took the websocket spec in a pretty straight forward way
00:46:01 [kaz]
... websocket would work for one-time get for door information
00:46:13 [kaz]
s/websocket/example on websocket/
00:46:33 [kaz]
... the other half is JSON-LD
00:46:45 [kaz]
... think it's very straight forward
00:47:06 [kaz]
ted: we do have Qing An and Wonsuk
00:47:14 [kaz]
... don't have Adam Crofts
00:47:46 [kaz]
dave: didn't address the location for the websocket protocol
00:47:55 [kaz]
... "localhost" could be used
00:48:40 [kaz]
ted: people may use some .org domain
00:49:02 [kaz]
(sample.org?)
00:49:13 [kaz]
s/sample/example/
00:49:34 [Song_Li]
will localhost respond to other ip?
00:50:12 [kaz]
(some noise...)
00:50:18 [Song_Li]
cool, so ws:// should be safe enough, otherwise I would say wss:// is preferred
00:50:40 [kaz]
ted: couple of actions
00:51:08 [kaz]
song: wondering if we use websocket, will localhost respond to other IP?
00:52:17 [kaz]
... over the air, secure version of websocket is preferred if usual websocket is not safe enough
00:52:32 [kaz]
ted: data broker check the coming-in data
00:53:03 [kaz]
... great to add encryption
00:53:22 [kaz]
song: don't want anybody around the car use the websocket connection
00:53:38 [kaz]
... we encrypt the data on the air
00:54:13 [kaz]
... using usual websocket could be enough, though
00:54:25 [kaz]
ted: tx
00:54:59 [kaz]
wonsuk: would ask about JSON-LD interface
00:55:27 [kaz]
dave: great idea. will work on that
00:55:48 [kaz]
wonsuk: what secure API would be like?
00:56:12 [kaz]
ted: my interpretation is we're exploring web idl
00:56:20 [kaz]
... web runtime approach
00:56:29 [kaz]
... are you in favor of that approach?
00:56:53 [kaz]
... I myself am neutral
00:57:13 [kaz]
... we could have existing vehicle api as a high-level api
00:57:25 [kaz]
... on the top of websocket/JSON approach
00:57:48 [kaz]
... mapping of library
00:58:17 [kaz]
dave: we want to use websocket precisely?
00:58:30 [kaz]
... or something may look like websocket?
00:58:38 [kaz]
... would figure out
00:59:04 [kaz]
wonsuk: api from the browser
00:59:43 [kaz]
... how can we map this approach with the existing spec?
01:00:08 [kaz]
dave: would see how to implement the current spec api based on this new low-level interface
01:00:15 [kaz]
wonsuk: how we handle that?
01:00:33 [kaz]
s/how/we would see how/
01:00:39 [kaz]
dave: yes
01:00:55 [kaz]
wonsuk: this websoket interface would be useful
01:01:14 [kaz]
... outside of the car, there would be a need for interface to access things
01:01:23 [kaz]
q+
01:01:44 [ted]
scribenick: ted
01:02:02 [ted]
kaz: within wot group there have been discussion on two level of interfaces
01:03:22 [ted]
wonsuk: i understand but my point is that the implementation approach is quite different
01:03:39 [ted]
… are we going to make a switch or provide both
01:03:44 [ted]
q+
01:03:48 [ted]
q-
01:04:06 [kaz]
i/wonsuk:/... for the intra-car interface, we could use the current vehicle api interface, and for inter-car interface we need websocket-base network interface/
01:04:09 [kaz]
ack k
01:04:15 [kaz]
q?
01:05:33 [kaz]
kaz: would say we could have both the approaches like CSS level 2 and level3
01:05:47 [kaz]
ted: we could do that
01:06:14 [kaz]
... representing the vehicle api on the top of the websocket approach
01:06:23 [kaz]
... would see what could be done
01:07:06 [kaz]
... would dig this websocket approach
01:07:19 [kaz]
... we focus on this first
01:07:34 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:07:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:07:40 [ted]
q?
01:08:11 [kaz]
... appreciate Dave's initial work
01:08:55 [kaz]
... would have a separate call. interested people's participation is welcome
01:09:20 [kaz]
urata: some questions
01:09:40 [kaz]
... you provided two examples
01:09:47 [kaz]
... websocket type and promise type
01:10:17 [kaz]
dave: the idea is using the both
01:10:31 [kaz]
urata: ok
01:10:49 [kaz]
... the second one could be created on the top of the websocket interface
01:11:05 [kaz]
dave: would combine the interfaces?
01:11:17 [kaz]
urata: I mean the second example is higher than the first one
01:11:53 [kaz]
... the first example is one connection with websocket is shared
01:12:07 [kaz]
... with another object of vehicle interface
01:12:12 [kaz]
dave: don't know
01:12:23 [kaz]
... maybe separate websocket connection
01:12:42 [kaz]
urata: so separate websocket connections for each data?
01:12:44 [kaz]
dave: right
01:13:04 [powellkinney]
q+
01:13:17 [kaz]
urata: data broker would have too many websocket connections
01:13:25 [kaz]
... might be a problem for the data broker
01:13:53 [kaz]
dave: websocket can't have more than one URLs as its target, can it?
01:14:15 [kaz]
urata: maybe we can create one specific websocket connection
01:14:26 [kaz]
... and share it for many purposes
01:14:53 [kaz]
dave: that's why I think there is another open question
01:15:05 [kaz]
... really use websocket?
01:15:14 [kaz]
... or something looks like websocket connection?
01:15:16 [kaz]
urata: ok
01:15:40 [kaz]
... the second example has get and post
01:15:58 [kaz]
... in the promise style
01:16:23 [kaz]
... if you don't mean using websocket might use XHR connection
01:16:33 [kaz]
dave: right
01:16:59 [kaz]
... what kind of actual protocol is used is an open question
01:17:44 [kaz]
urata: @@@ (much noise)
01:17:57 [kaz]
dave: compromise between the approaches
01:18:26 [kaz]
... not aware of other standards so far
01:18:38 [kaz]
urata: there is some other work like WoT
01:18:43 [kaz]
dave: ok
01:19:20 [kaz]
powell: you still could host natural usual socket connection
01:20:18 [kaz]
... subscribe like this can be a socket connection
01:20:30 [kaz]
dave: we have a channel for abstraction
01:20:39 [kaz]
powell: MQTT can do something like that
01:21:02 [kaz]
... we've been developing clients negotiate with screens
01:21:23 [kaz]
... there is one host which has all the information
01:21:49 [kaz]
ted: Kevin is not on the call today
01:22:03 [kaz]
... would have delete mechanism
01:22:32 [kaz]
... probably on the data broker side
01:22:44 [kaz]
... people might want to work on that side
01:22:58 [kaz]
powell: can work on that for issue 81
01:23:01 [kaz]
dave: good
01:23:34 [kaz]
hira: urata-san, could you explain websocket could work with our prototype implementation?
01:23:42 [kaz]
urata: yes
01:23:54 [kaz]
... we created a prototype implementation
01:24:18 [kaz]
... polyfill by javascript for vehicle api provider
01:24:44 [kaz]
... translation between vehicle api and native interface
01:25:04 [kaz]
... data broker just saving the data from CAN
01:25:39 [kaz]
... vehicle api pollyfill accepts the data and accumulate it
01:25:47 [kaz]
... vehicle data from the broker
01:26:28 [kaz]
... if we use get(), then the first data from the broker will be gotten
01:26:50 [kaz]
... that is the basic mechanism of the data broker and JSON data within our prototype
01:26:53 [kaz]
q+
01:27:47 [kaz]
kaz: in that case, do you think you could provide basic idea on the mapping between the current high-level vehicle api and the low-level websocket approach?
01:28:27 [kaz]
... do you think it's difficult?
01:28:31 [kaz]
urata: not difficult
01:29:01 [kaz]
... mapping with high-level interface and translation to the low-level data
01:29:24 [kaz]
hira: how we could change the websocket-based JSON data to the WebIDL interface?
01:29:40 [kaz]
urata: can provide some basic translation later
01:29:40 [kaz]
q?
01:29:42 [kaz]
ack p
01:29:43 [kaz]
ack k
01:29:47 [kaz]
hira: tx
01:30:11 [kaz]
kaz: we can work on that part as well on the issue 81?
01:30:14 [kaz]
urata: ok
01:30:28 [kaz]
ted: sounds like we'll work on issue 81
01:30:52 [kaz]
... sorry this call was kind of ad-hoc
01:31:09 [kaz]
... before ending this call, would talk about the f2f
01:31:33 [ted]
-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-automotive/2016Feb/0007.html start of a f2f agenda thread
01:34:14 [djensen47]
It is doubtful that I can attend in person. I would like to attend remote for any session where I'm needed.
01:34:19 [kaz]
kaz: might want to fix the basis schedule
01:36:19 [kaz]
ted: would get people availability using WBS
01:36:26 [kaz]
s/people/people's/
01:36:50 [kaz]
... since not all the group participants are on this call
01:36:55 [kaz]
... will create a WBS
01:37:21 [kaz]
... the WBS should include call for agenda
01:38:00 [kaz]
... had a W3C/Genivi meeting on security
01:38:38 [kaz]
... and would put the information on the wiki
01:39:54 [kaz]
... Hashimoto-san can you stay a bit more and have some chat?
01:40:18 [kaz]
s/san/san,
01:40:39 [kaz]
... to share information with Song
01:41:04 [kaz]
... the main meeting is adjourned
01:41:20 [kaz]
... will create a WBS for the April meeting
01:42:23 [kaz]
... explains the summary of the security/privacy tf
01:42:40 [kaz]
... and ask Junichi for introduction
01:42:48 [kaz]
(some more chat on the security/privacy tf)
01:43:14 [kaz]
i/explains/[ adjourned ]/
01:43:20 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:43:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:43:38 [kaz]
Chair: Ted
01:43:40 [kaz]
Chair: Ted
01:43:41 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:43:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:44:43 [kaz]
i/mentions the possible agenda/scribenick: kaz/
01:44:45 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:44:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:45:24 [kaz]
i|issues/81|topic: API refactoring (issue 81)|
01:45:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:45:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:45:46 [kaz]
i/would say we could have/scribenick: kaz/
01:46:27 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:46:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:47:05 [kaz]
i/sorry htis call was/topic: April f2f/
01:47:06 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:47:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
01:47:58 [ted]
-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_firewall as a proxy to restrict access to outside world and provide data loss prevention
01:48:10 [ted]
if we go web socket approach i think we will want the same
01:48:34 [ted]
as we are in a very different environment than webidl+extension/plugin
01:49:02 [kaz]
yeah
01:49:45 [kaz]
i/sorry this call was/topic: April f2f/
01:49:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:49:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz
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