23:52:42 RRSAgent has joined #auto 23:52:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-irc 00:00:19 Wonsuk has joined #Auto 00:02:57 junichi_hashimoto has joined #auto 00:05:46 QingAn has joined #auto 00:06:42 wonsuk has joined #auto 00:20:56 oh 00:22:09 ted has changed the topic to: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2016Mar/0016.html call coordinates 00:26:47 powellkinney has joined #auto 00:28:33 hira has joined #auto 00:29:21 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/81 00:30:25 QingAn has joined #auto 00:32:51 urata_access has joined #auto 00:32:57 present: Kaz, Dave, Junichi, Powell, Shinjiro, Song, Ted, Wonsuk 00:33:28 ted: mentions the possible agenda 00:33:35 junichi_hashimoto has joined #auto 00:33:36 Yingying has joined #auto 00:33:39 ... Dave's new posted issue 81 00:33:48 ... Paris f2f 00:34:28 ... also should do introduction for Song Li 00:34:43 ... located in Seattle 00:34:45 wonsuk has joined #auto 00:34:47 ... security expert 00:35:01 ... had good conversation while a go 00:35:28 ... Junichi running the Security/Privacy TF 00:35:40 rrsagent, make log public 00:35:43 Present+ Ted 00:35:47 song: tx 00:35:51 present+ Yingying_Chen 00:35:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:35:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 00:36:36 present+ QingAn 00:37:09 song: security company 00:37:20 ... different devices including connected cars 00:37:32 ... this automotive group is of interest 00:37:42 http://newskysecurity.com 00:38:00 ... would make contribution 00:38:12 s/company/company, Newskysecurity 00:38:41 ... after the call maybe we can have another call to catch up 00:39:04 UW - University of Washington which compromises a number http://www.autosec.org/people.html 00:39:08 ... traveling abroad till 17, though 00:39:30 ted: tx 00:39:48 ... if you can join the IRC at http://irc.w3.org/?channels=auto 00:40:11 ... taking minutes on the IRC 00:40:46 present+ Hirabayashi 00:40:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:40:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 00:40:55 djensen47 has joined #auto 00:40:58 Meeting: Automotive WG 00:41:13 Song_Li has joined #auto 00:41:29 present+ Hirabayashi 00:41:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:41:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 00:41:50 ted: two topics for today 00:41:59 ... refactoring the current vehicle API 00:42:10 ... Dave Jensen took an action at the previous call 00:42:19 ... and did so. tx! 00:42:25 ... dropped the link 00:42:26 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/81 00:42:44 ted: next topic is April f2f meeting 00:43:11 ... Dave, could you walk though your post? 00:43:52 s|81|81 Use a service-based API instead of WebIDL| 00:43:59 s/https/-> https/ 00:44:16 dave: opened up an issue (issue 81) 00:44:28 ... can close the previous issue 72 00:44:41 -> https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/80 Meta issue to keep track of actions 00:44:53 ... discussion started on the web api 00:45:28 ... took the websocket spec in a pretty straight forward way 00:46:01 ... websocket would work for one-time get for door information 00:46:13 s/websocket/example on websocket/ 00:46:33 ... the other half is JSON-LD 00:46:45 ... think it's very straight forward 00:47:06 ted: we do have Qing An and Wonsuk 00:47:14 ... don't have Adam Crofts 00:47:46 dave: didn't address the location for the websocket protocol 00:47:55 ... "localhost" could be used 00:48:40 ted: people may use some .org domain 00:49:02 (sample.org?) 00:49:13 s/sample/example/ 00:49:34 will localhost respond to other ip? 00:50:12 (some noise...) 00:50:18 cool, so ws:// should be safe enough, otherwise I would say wss:// is preferred 00:50:40 ted: couple of actions 00:51:08 song: wondering if we use websocket, will localhost respond to other IP? 00:52:17 ... over the air, secure version of websocket is preferred if usual websocket is not safe enough 00:52:32 ted: data broker check the coming-in data 00:53:03 ... great to add encryption 00:53:22 song: don't want anybody around the car use the websocket connection 00:53:38 ... we encrypt the data on the air 00:54:13 ... using usual websocket could be enough, though 00:54:25 ted: tx 00:54:59 wonsuk: would ask about JSON-LD interface 00:55:27 dave: great idea. will work on that 00:55:48 wonsuk: what secure API would be like? 00:56:12 ted: my interpretation is we're exploring web idl 00:56:20 ... web runtime approach 00:56:29 ... are you in favor of that approach? 00:56:53 ... I myself am neutral 00:57:13 ... we could have existing vehicle api as a high-level api 00:57:25 ... on the top of websocket/JSON approach 00:57:48 ... mapping of library 00:58:17 dave: we want to use websocket precisely? 00:58:30 ... or something may look like websocket? 00:58:38 ... would figure out 00:59:04 wonsuk: api from the browser 00:59:43 ... how can we map this approach with the existing spec? 01:00:08 dave: would see how to implement the current spec api based on this new low-level interface 01:00:15 wonsuk: how we handle that? 01:00:33 s/how/we would see how/ 01:00:39 dave: yes 01:00:55 wonsuk: this websoket interface would be useful 01:01:14 ... outside of the car, there would be a need for interface to access things 01:01:23 q+ 01:01:44 scribenick: ted 01:02:02 kaz: within wot group there have been discussion on two level of interfaces 01:03:22 wonsuk: i understand but my point is that the implementation approach is quite different 01:03:39 … are we going to make a switch or provide both 01:03:44 q+ 01:03:48 q- 01:04:06 i/wonsuk:/... for the intra-car interface, we could use the current vehicle api interface, and for inter-car interface we need websocket-base network interface/ 01:04:09 ack k 01:04:15 q? 01:05:33 kaz: would say we could have both the approaches like CSS level 2 and level3 01:05:47 ted: we could do that 01:06:14 ... representing the vehicle api on the top of the websocket approach 01:06:23 ... would see what could be done 01:07:06 ... would dig this websocket approach 01:07:19 ... we focus on this first 01:07:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:07:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:07:40 q? 01:08:11 ... appreciate Dave's initial work 01:08:55 ... would have a separate call. interested people's participation is welcome 01:09:20 urata: some questions 01:09:40 ... you provided two examples 01:09:47 ... websocket type and promise type 01:10:17 dave: the idea is using the both 01:10:31 urata: ok 01:10:49 ... the second one could be created on the top of the websocket interface 01:11:05 dave: would combine the interfaces? 01:11:17 urata: I mean the second example is higher than the first one 01:11:53 ... the first example is one connection with websocket is shared 01:12:07 ... with another object of vehicle interface 01:12:12 dave: don't know 01:12:23 ... maybe separate websocket connection 01:12:42 urata: so separate websocket connections for each data? 01:12:44 dave: right 01:13:04 q+ 01:13:17 urata: data broker would have too many websocket connections 01:13:25 ... might be a problem for the data broker 01:13:53 dave: websocket can't have more than one URLs as its target, can it? 01:14:15 urata: maybe we can create one specific websocket connection 01:14:26 ... and share it for many purposes 01:14:53 dave: that's why I think there is another open question 01:15:05 ... really use websocket? 01:15:14 ... or something looks like websocket connection? 01:15:16 urata: ok 01:15:40 ... the second example has get and post 01:15:58 ... in the promise style 01:16:23 ... if you don't mean using websocket might use XHR connection 01:16:33 dave: right 01:16:59 ... what kind of actual protocol is used is an open question 01:17:44 urata: @@@ (much noise) 01:17:57 dave: compromise between the approaches 01:18:26 ... not aware of other standards so far 01:18:38 urata: there is some other work like WoT 01:18:43 dave: ok 01:19:20 powell: you still could host natural usual socket connection 01:20:18 ... subscribe like this can be a socket connection 01:20:30 dave: we have a channel for abstraction 01:20:39 powell: MQTT can do something like that 01:21:02 ... we've been developing clients negotiate with screens 01:21:23 ... there is one host which has all the information 01:21:49 ted: Kevin is not on the call today 01:22:03 ... would have delete mechanism 01:22:32 ... probably on the data broker side 01:22:44 ... people might want to work on that side 01:22:58 powell: can work on that for issue 81 01:23:01 dave: good 01:23:34 hira: urata-san, could you explain websocket could work with our prototype implementation? 01:23:42 urata: yes 01:23:54 ... we created a prototype implementation 01:24:18 ... polyfill by javascript for vehicle api provider 01:24:44 ... translation between vehicle api and native interface 01:25:04 ... data broker just saving the data from CAN 01:25:39 ... vehicle api pollyfill accepts the data and accumulate it 01:25:47 ... vehicle data from the broker 01:26:28 ... if we use get(), then the first data from the broker will be gotten 01:26:50 ... that is the basic mechanism of the data broker and JSON data within our prototype 01:26:53 q+ 01:27:47 kaz: in that case, do you think you could provide basic idea on the mapping between the current high-level vehicle api and the low-level websocket approach? 01:28:27 ... do you think it's difficult? 01:28:31 urata: not difficult 01:29:01 ... mapping with high-level interface and translation to the low-level data 01:29:24 hira: how we could change the websocket-based JSON data to the WebIDL interface? 01:29:40 urata: can provide some basic translation later 01:29:40 q? 01:29:42 ack p 01:29:43 ack k 01:29:47 hira: tx 01:30:11 kaz: we can work on that part as well on the issue 81? 01:30:14 urata: ok 01:30:28 ted: sounds like we'll work on issue 81 01:30:52 ... sorry this call was kind of ad-hoc 01:31:09 ... before ending this call, would talk about the f2f 01:31:33 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-automotive/2016Feb/0007.html start of a f2f agenda thread 01:34:14 It is doubtful that I can attend in person. I would like to attend remote for any session where I'm needed. 01:34:19 kaz: might want to fix the basis schedule 01:36:19 ted: would get people availability using WBS 01:36:26 s/people/people's/ 01:36:50 ... since not all the group participants are on this call 01:36:55 ... will create a WBS 01:37:21 ... the WBS should include call for agenda 01:38:00 ... had a W3C/Genivi meeting on security 01:38:38 ... and would put the information on the wiki 01:39:54 ... Hashimoto-san can you stay a bit more and have some chat? 01:40:18 s/san/san, 01:40:39 ... to share information with Song 01:41:04 ... the main meeting is adjourned 01:41:20 ... will create a WBS for the April meeting 01:42:23 ... explains the summary of the security/privacy tf 01:42:40 ... and ask Junichi for introduction 01:42:48 (some more chat on the security/privacy tf) 01:43:14 i/explains/[ adjourned ]/ 01:43:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:43:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:43:38 Chair: Ted 01:43:40 Chair: Ted 01:43:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:43:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:44:43 i/mentions the possible agenda/scribenick: kaz/ 01:44:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:44:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:45:24 i|issues/81|topic: API refactoring (issue 81)| 01:45:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:45:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:45:46 i/would say we could have/scribenick: kaz/ 01:46:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:46:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:47:05 i/sorry htis call was/topic: April f2f/ 01:47:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:47:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 01:47:58 -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_firewall as a proxy to restrict access to outside world and provide data loss prevention 01:48:10 if we go web socket approach i think we will want the same 01:48:34 as we are in a very different environment than webidl+extension/plugin 01:49:02 yeah 01:49:45 i/sorry this call was/topic: April f2f/ 01:49:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:49:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-auto-minutes.html kaz 03:49:24 kaz has joined #auto 04:11:35 Zakim has left #auto 05:46:21 Yingying has joined #auto 07:18:33 Yingying has joined #auto 08:50:52 Karen has joined #auto 10:19:16 Yingying has joined #auto 11:55:43 Yingying has joined #auto 13:46:53 kaz has joined #auto